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Patch 14: Part 2 experimental patch increasing realism in ship behavior

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12 minutes ago, Lord Bomgordel said:

 

@admin This is a 15,5 Knot Lynx. Fix it pls. And no this is not because there is shallows its the same without them, i tested.

just tested… works fine 20-25 at 45 degrees (as before)

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10 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

Faster in battle? 

tested just yet 

and no issue on the lynx (is as before, [look for good angle ] )

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4 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

yep, just been out in a T-Lynx: same speeds as before, nothing changed.

 

This patch only changes things for 3 masted ships, READ THE PATCH NOTES

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11 minutes ago, Suppenkelle said:

 

At an angle of 60° to the wind the ship made 8.1kn under full sails and 3.8kn depowered. So, the contribution of the staysails was 4.3kn. At 45° the speed under full sails was 3.7kn and 0.2kn depowered. Staysails contributed 3.5kn. This is a drop of the staysails's contribution by 20%, too much in my opinion. And this holds even more, as I neglect the fact, that resistance of the ship goes up with speed.

all sails are individual. so maybe you are experiencing the sum of the positive staysail force and the negative square sails force (which already provides negative speed)

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10 minutes ago, admin said:

just tested… works fine 20-25 at 45 degrees (as before)

OMG, I had 2x Indiaman in fleet... sorry hahaha.

Can you just delete everything I posted here so I dont look like an idiot? :)))

Edited by Lord Bomgordel
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5 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

This patch only changes things for 3 masted ships, READ THE PATCH NOTES

Why do you scream? I wasn't complaining, I answered to Lord B, who seemed to experience a slow Lynx.  riddle solved now, he had two Indias in fleet :)

 

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

all sails are individual. so maybe you are experiencing the sum of the positive staysail force and the negative square sails force (which already provides negative speed)

THX!! That could well be it, yeah, I'm happy now.

... just adapt the turn rates for all vessels, once you are done with the small ones. :)

Edited by Suppenkelle

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43 minutes ago, George Washington said:

... and will cleanse this game even more ....

Not quite the right verb TBH.

Personally I like the changes, but my guts give me a bad feeling about how the patch will be received by the most of players (and even more when third part will be deployed).

Edited by victor

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@admin how much closer are we to the possibility of a merge or some sort of character transfer option?  I’ve been witnessing a drop in numbers on EU lately and of course as you’re aware global is on life support barely cracking 100 on evenings without PBs. The game is very closely reaching pre wipe levels of activity.

I understand why sailing profiles were changed but we do need some sort of help from the devs to keep people interested in the game.... sail physics ain’t gonna do it.

Edited by Christendom
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9 minutes ago, victor said:

Not quite the right verb TBH.

Personally I like the changes, but my guts give me a bad feeling about how the patch will be received by the most of players (and even more when third part will be deployed).

No it's the correct verb, only hardcore pvp players will remain. Making sailing simulator will not be received well by many as it was from the beginning. Time will tell if we are right. 

Edited by George Washington

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28 minutes ago, Lord Bomgordel said:

OMG, I had 2x Indiaman in fleet... sorry hahaha.

Can you just delete everything I posted here so I dont look like an idiot? :)))

ill just quote so it wont dissapear

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1 minute ago, George Washington said:

No it's the correct verb, only hardcore pvp players will remain. Making sailing simulator will not be received well by many as it was from the beginning. Time will tell if we are right. 

I disagree, the only additional information that players have to keep in mind are the angles of their sails to the wind. I am not a hardcore pvp but I like the fact that my sails now affects my turning rate noticeably. I'd like it more if the rudder doesn't feel useless or not very significant. Mind you, I'm not saying improve the turning rate of all ships so 1st rates can do donuts, but more like balance the turning between the rudder and sails a bit more

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13 minutes ago, DustyA said:

I disagree, the only additional information that players have to keep in mind are the angles of their sails to the wind. I am not a hardcore pvp but I like the fact that my sails now affects my turning rate noticeably. I'd like it more if the rudder doesn't feel useless or not very significant. Mind you, I'm not saying improve the turning rate of all ships so 1st rates can do donuts, but more like balance the turning between the rudder and sails a bit more

Manual sailing is beautiful and I myself enjoy it a lot, but I can remember how many people said meh it's not my thing. Same with manual gun aiming. Just sad that we will play this game with only 600 people online and who knows if Devs ever consider server merge. I mean global is dead anyway, why waste money for that server?  

Edited by George Washington

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1 hour ago, admin said:

Naval Action is the ARMA of age of sail. We have THE BEST sailing model ever done in a computer game and we will continue to improve it. We are sure that some landlubbers prefer first rates to sail as motorboats, but hey - they can sail them in other games (and even install ram on their ship)

first rates no longer come out of tack at speed (it was happening because they had old inertia which is now fixed)

Wait what?  The Arma of Age of Sail.   So.... your game has a highly detailed engine that was developed in house, and is adaptable and modded by the community for increased realism?  

 

No...

I think it is better to say.

Naval Action is the Falcon4.0 of age of sail.  

The most realistic age of sail fighting game there is, currently.

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1 hour ago, George Washington said:

Well of course , auto is balanced means turning will be longer. Manual will respond to you and your timing and this could indeed reduce turn rate time. New guys sailing on Auto will have big disadvantage in combat vs players until they learn to sail on Manual. This all translates to if you are new to the game do not even try to go pvp. 

Most new players will be in one masted ship until they get more experience and most folks at that level don't even know about manual sailing so not sure how that will run them away.  As for others many folks been playing this game for a while and still can't get out of irons or manual sail so not really thinking we will see much difference in that department.

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9 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Most new players will be in one masted ship until they get more experience and most folks at that level don't even know about manual sailing so not sure how that will run them away.  As for others many folks been playing this game for a while and still can't get out of irons or manual sail so not really thinking we will see much difference in that department.

For example past Auto sailing could get you stuck dead in the wind. If new one does the same here is your answer. I can recall multiple complaints about people who can't move and stuck. I just hope that Auto sailing will be able to get you through the wind in a nice and smooth manner. 

Edited by George Washington

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1 hour ago, Suppenkelle said:

At an angle of 60° to the wind the ship made 8.1kn under full sails and 3.8kn depowered. So, the contribution of the staysails was 4.3kn. At 45° the speed under full sails was 3.7kn and 0.2kn depowered. Staysails contributed 3.5kn. This is a drop of the staysails's contribution by 20%, too much in my opinion. And this holds even more, as I neglect the fact, that resistance of the ship goes up with speed.

By no means.

Main/mizzen staysails of this shape were extremely inefficient and of doubtful utility at 45°.

In reality, square riggers were incapable of making useful progress to windward without the help of square sails. Even if some properly-proportioned brigs could make a few knots, it would all be eaten up by leeway from the underpowered hull.

So in real life the ship wouldn't be going much of anywhere at even 60°.

45° would be the very edge of the dead zone for a schooner or xebec, and 60° would be much faster.

So the sailing model is still generous.

 

Quote

Wait what?  The Arma of Age of Sail.   So.... your game has a highly detailed engine that was developed in house, and is adaptable and modded by the community for increased realism?  

 

This is the first NA game.

Bohemia Interactive made three full games in the series before they even let you adjust the sights on a rifle. Based on that track record, we're doing great.

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3 minutes ago, maturin said:

 

Bohemia Interactive made three full games in the series before they even let you adjust the sights on a rifle. Based on that track record, we're doing great.

???

Even in Operation Flashpoint you could adjust sight distance

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3 hours ago, DustyA said:

I believe he means, without the foremast, the force of the mainmast will be balanced out by the force on the mizzenmast automatically.

Yes, but my point is: will it be done by the actual turning of yards (by the auto-skipper), or will it just happen "magically"?

3 hours ago, George Washington said:

Well of course , auto is balanced means turning will be longer. Manual will respond to you and your timing and this could indeed reduce turn rate time. New guys sailing on Auto will have big disadvantage in combat vs players until they learn to sail on Manual. This all translates to if you are new to the game do not even try to go pvp. 

I know that auto-skipper optimises for speed, and that turning has always been enhanced by proper use of manual sailing, but I'm more concerned about how sailing physics may function completely different depending on whether you're on auto-skipper or using manual sails. Just like vazco says below:

3 hours ago, vazco said:

I think I understand now some weird behavior. Already with previous patch when you were on autoskipper and moved your yards just a bit, ship was changing behavior drastically. Is it possible to make autoskipper balance ship through rudder or yards, rather than some artificial course correction? This would remove some "magic" ship behavior. 

 

Another concern:

During the little testing I did after the first experimental patch, one thing that I reacted to, as has been mentioned before by @maturin for example, is that you were unable to heave to; that is, the pressure on the sails made you spin on the spot when you were standing still, without the use of rudder, and in a much too exaggerated way. I wonder if this is still true... 

Edited by Niels Terkildsen
Added link to mention

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