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Group size balancing

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We got a couple of reports about battle balance (in 100% of cases they could be explained by a group size).

We would like to clarify our view on the group balancing
Most groups are created by friends and in many cases they are using voicecomms. Having a group creates significant advantages in battle (due to tactical gameplay and focus fire). As a result we adjust group battle rating which might give them a little bit more opponents.

Example (all players in a cutter)

  • 4 random players will be balanced by 4 random players
  • 4  players in a group will be first balanced by other groups and if no groups present they will be balanced by 5+ random players depending on the size of the group. 

This is an example of the NAL design philosophy that every battle must be fair.

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In my oppinion it doesnt mean much if you have a group. You can play on a bronze level with a group of noobs and yoj can play on a diamond level with random players in other games aswell.

As a example. If Liq, moscalb, ram dinark, havelock and palatinose get matched together in a group of random 5 against a clan trying out nal as a group of 4 is it still fair?

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2 minutes ago, rediii said:

In my oppinion it doesnt mean much if you have a group. You can play on a bronze level with a group of noobs and yoj can play on a diamond level with random players in other games aswell.

As a example. If Liq, moscalb, ram dinark, havelock and palatinose get matched together in a group of random 5 against a clan trying out nal as a group of 4 is it still fair?

Skill rank system will come eventually into both games and could also be used to adjust ship BR.

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No groups. Play with each other. If you are put against your buddies all the better. Pour salt into their wounds on your group voice comms :D

That's how it was in trials and was good. And most was done with text chat anyway.

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mixed rates worked in ST because the pen model wasnt in place. When you look vids of that period you see weird angle pens.

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Im not a fan of the balancer, its a lot of work and probably will never work great due to very different skill levels of different players. Even if you would introduce a ELO system you would need a very big playerbase to get good matches out of it.

Much easier:

Give us a server browser where people can determine maps and gamemodes, shipsize and maximum amount of players. This way people can balance themselves, look for gamemodes and battle sizes they enjoy and fight players of equal skill or look for a challenge.

If you dont want that at least give us custom lobbies with no exp and money

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A lot of trouble with balance will be irrelevant when the product will be life, Small statistics group always gives a wrong experience. And the result doesn't match, as we can see it now.

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What Rychu says above, with few players it is harder to get a perfectly balanced fight.

With that said I do not think every battle should be perfectly balanced as it adds some dynamics and variation, although no fight should be impossible or complete walkover for either side.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

This is an example of the NAL design philosophy that every battle must be fair.

That means there will be no bots in the matches in the final game unless I explicit search for a PvE game?

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4 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

That means there will be no bots in the matches in the final game unless I explicit search for a PvE game?

there will be no bots at all once once there are 10 players of similar rank (less than 2x br difference) in a balancer consistently.
Bots are currently use to fill battles and balance uneven BR if it happens

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40 minutes ago, admin said:

there will be no bots at all once once there are 10 players of similar rank (less than 2x br difference) in a balancer consistently.
Bots are currently use to fill battles and balance uneven BR if it happens

I want to have fair, balanced fights against  humans only; I don’t care how long I have to wait in queue.  Does this means NA-L will never have a place for ppl like me?

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8 minutes ago, CatSwift said:

I want to have fair, balanced fights against  humans only; I don’t care how long I have to wait in queue.  Does this means NA-L will never have a place for ppl like me?

exit the balancer if you don't see people

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9 minutes ago, admin said:

exit the balancer if you don't see people

How long does balancer wait for queue? Sometimes it is 2 mins, sometimes less, I don't understand. Also, it shows 9 players in queue and then I see only 3-6 in battle.

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Just now, admin said:

exit the balancer if you don't see people

thx; i have tried this. I still get matched with AI.  If this is the long term solution then there is indeed no place in NA-L for people who want to play against other people.

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1 minute ago, CatSwift said:

thx; i have tried this. I still get matched with AI.  If this is the long term solution then there is indeed no place in NA-L for people who want to play against other people.

Its in closed beta.

"Noone" is playing it. Wait for open beta instead

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1 minute ago, CatSwift said:

thx; i have tried this. I still get matched with AI.  If this is the long term solution then there is indeed no place in NA-L for people who want to play against other people.

lol what a snowflake
 
stop whining. you can't get matched against ai if you exit the balancer. Balancer shows if there are people in it. Wait for people and then you won't get matched against AI. Admin said somewhere that AI stops showing up if there are 10 people of similar class in a balancer 

 

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21 minutes ago, jonnysweden said:

lol what a snowflake
 
stop whining. you can't get matched against ai if you exit the balancer. Balancer shows if there are people in it. Wait for people and then you won't get matched against AI. Admin said somewhere that AI stops showing up if there are 10 people of similar class in a balancer 

 

I'd suggest you go try it yourself first before calling others "snowflakes" ?

Yesterday, there were 12 players in queue. All of them in 7th and 6th rates. I was one of them, in a Snow. However, I got mathced with only one other player in the enemy team; AI filled up the other slots.

I also would very much welcome the option to get mached in Players v Players battles only.. Even if that means waiting for 10 - 15 minutes. Still no comparison to the time wasted in Open World sailing around seeing nothing.

Edited by Liq

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22 minutes ago, rediii said:

Its in closed beta.

"Noone" is playing it. Wait for open beta instead

I understand that, ty.  However, the point of closed betas are to help find bugs and identify issues.  not being able to be matched with the optimal amount of human players due to the current implementation of the balancer queue is, I would think, an extremely valid issue to bring up.  Especially now with “less than optimal” players, since optimizing the number of human opponents when they are not in adundance is more important than when they are.

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1 hour ago, CatSwift said:

thx; i have tried this. I still get matched with AI.  If this is the long term solution then there is indeed no place in NA-L for people who want to play against other people.

Minimal battle size is 5v5 (duels and tournaments will allow smaller battles)
As a result if there are 2 players in a balancer the battle will be created with bots (2 players 8 bots = 5v5). If there are 10 people in similar ships in a balancer bots will not be added to battles.

Its a simple mathematical equation. 
Once online reaches a certain number bots will disappear and you will never see them. 

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2 hours ago, admin said:

Once online reaches a certain number bots will disappear and you will never see them. 

If NAL gets a low playerbase (less then 50 players waiting for a game) its unplayable for many. Bots destroy the fun, you cant communicate with them, its frustrating to play with them vs other players and its boring to play against them.

Armored Warfare is a f2p tank game like WoT. It has a low playerbase. If you dont play at peak times you have to wait long to get a match (15vs15) and/or have to switch to a popular tank class to get matched at all. But people still Q up, because they know they will get a decent match after a certain amount of time. And they make profit from this game because of Premium tanks.

Lets say the same thing happens to NAL. Low playerbase, people get Qed into shitty matches with bots all the time. What will happen? Half of them never Q again because they are sick of having bad matches vs bots. They leave the game and never buy anything.

 

I bet you can see it already in your statistics. People try the game get 2 shitty botmatches and leave the game again.

Edited by Jon Snow lets go

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The matching is bugged in my view. I waited 3 times for more than 12 minutes. There were always 10+ players in queue, in one occasion it was 40+ and it took ~5 minutes to create a match. This match I did not participate, I had to wait for another 50 minutes or so. Everyone, except for 2 players in the queue were unrated ships, so matching should have been easy.

Very frustrating.  

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While waiting, players wondered why it takes so long in global chat. Some suggested that flags might have an influence on team selection, others said flags are used only on the client side for graphical presentation. @admin can you shed a light on this?

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