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Making gold, Missions V Trading


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Just going to keep this short, and put a suggestion out there which could help the trading side of the game or get more people trading. I just feel with the amount of Gold that can be made with the Missions, especially Fleet missions there is no point in getting in a trader and taking the risks on potentially losing your loot. 3 fleet missions and boom there's around $1m in gold depending on the mission and the amount of Kills/Assists you made.

 

What I would like to see is a complete drop in the amount of gold that can be made in these Missions, to the point where your just covering your costs of entering the missions, I.E costs of repair and crew. This way missions would be used to gain XP and find Upgrades needed for your ships,trading would be your main source of earning gold, which may help grow the player driven side of trading.

 

This is just an opinion of mine, maybe it would help who knows, but thought id share.

 

Happy sailing

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Not a fan of the idea. Nerfing essentially the only active PvE content in the game is, in my opinion, ridiculous. In my experience thus far:

Missions!

Pros:  They're fun, they pay well, you get exp and mods.

Cons: The solo ones take time, and the group ones take coordinating people.

Trading!

Pros: Better money per hour than missions, you can multitask (I'm a fan of doing laundry while on trading runs), simultaneous movement of necessary goods for crafting.

Cons: If you're actually sitting there staring at the horizon you're liable to lose your mind, pirating risk, requires upfront investment.

 

Plus, trading is for players that are even ABLE to play the game more than a couple of hours a day. Casual players don't want their time eaten up by an endless horizon while they push numbers from A to B. They want to do a couple of fun, worthwhile missions.

Edited by TheHaney
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I’m not sure reducing mission rewards is the answer. Perhaps a bit. But trading rewards outside the safe zone should be higher. At least on par with the missions.

The goal should be male combatants need traders/crafters and traders/crafters need combatants.

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I agree with the OP, if you want to make money then trade. This will get more traders out on the oceans thus providing more targets for the raiders and in turn more opportunities for PvP as nationals try and intercept the raiders.

Fighting wars costs money, so how come in the game fighting generates more money than you can get trading. Build a proper economy and make trading a viable profession. That way traders can pay for protection.

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25 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

Not a fan of the idea. Nerfing essentially the only active PvE content in the game is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

You do realise that economy is dead already, because people earn 10+ times more money/value than they sink?! Rewards and money sinks have to be balanced no matter if we like it or not. 

Nobody is going to be attracted by meaningless NPC trading seperated from actual economy, no matter how you push the rewards. Sure you can include "trade marks" lets say to buy mods and books and people would start trading. But forcing players into dumb gameplay would make it even worse. The fun part of trading is not carrying goods from A to B for good rewards, but to interact with the market based on supply and demand.

Attracting people that enjoy economic gameplay would bring much life to NA. Realise how many people play games like eve for this reason. And we saw purely economic focussed players already in the early NA, while this is effecting any average player expecting slightly more than pretty ships and combat, currently unlikely to start NA.

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Glad this post has started a debate, I just feel there is no rewards in trading right now as much more gold can be made easier without the risk of losing it, trading attracts different types of players. More traders could result in more people sailing around hoping to intercept them instead of sitting outside of a free town, then jumping in and out looking for an opportunity to gank someone.

 

This could then bring a part of the game where players looking for PVP could get paid to protect the trade ship and I'm sure while out with them will find PvP from others trying to sink the traders. The thought behind it is that it "could" open up a lot of different areas of the game.

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2 hours ago, Fargo said:

You do realise that economy is dead already, because people earn 10+ times more money/value than they sink?! Rewards and money sinks have to be balanced no matter if we like it or not. 

Nobody is going to be attracted by meaningless NPC trading seperated from actual economy, no matter how you push the rewards. Sure you can include "trade marks" lets say to buy mods and books and people would start trading. But forcing players into dumb gameplay would make it even worse. The fun part of trading is not carrying goods from A to B for good rewards, but to interact with the market based on supply and demand.

Attracting people that enjoy economic gameplay would bring much life to NA. Realise how many people play games like eve for this reason. And we saw purely economic focussed players already in the early NA, while this is effecting any average player expecting slightly more than pretty ships and combat, currently unlikely to start NA.

...did you quote the wrong thing? Your statements have nothing to do with the quote.

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2 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

...did you quote the wrong thing? Your statements have nothing to do with the quote.

I referred to everyone defending current rewards. You did, or did i misinterpret?! You also proposed later to reward trading with mods. Is this really important? :s

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No, it should be a balanced option between PvE and trading. If trading is far more lucrative and PvE less rewarding then you are forcing players to trade. I want to be able to choose to do PvE or to trade, depending on what I actually want to do. Having that option for earning gold prevents me from getting bored.. 

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When you trade in bulk (three full indiaman), you can make millions on one run.

As long as you're sailing brigs and snows, the volume you can ship is just not worth the time invested, true.

As for the missionrewardsuggestion ... we had that after the wipe ... everybody was broke all the time ... it was not good either ;-) Just barely breaking even after a fight is not sustainable, as you will have to trade every day (just to buy repairkits), there is no more time to actually fight.

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1 hour ago, TheHaney said:

Aye. Forcing people to trade in order to sustain themselves alienates a large portion of the playerbase.

The same could be said regarding forcing people to PvP when they dont want to.

PvP generates PvP marks which if sold would generate a lot of money (I hear the going rate is around 100k each). So PvP'ers have a way to earn money. For people who do PvE missions and general attacking of AI fleets, well they get books and mods to drop as well as combat marks, all of which can be sold to make money. What do traders have apart from making money from trading?

No one is forced to do anything, all three types of play have their own way of making money, but people want to have it both ways, they want the marks, books, mods and money from only doing one thing.

The game should develop to allow different types of playstyles and they should all be viable. Get more people out trading outside of the safe zones and you will generate plenty of targets for PvP.

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On 11/21/2017 at 11:12 PM, Slim Jimmerson said:

We have PVP rewards, PVE rewards, but no trade rewards.

actually some specific modules (cargo enhancement, mods influencing OS speed) could be gained through "trade marks" gained through trade missions. The more longer and risky the mission the more the marks awarded.

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4 minutes ago, rediii said:

PvP playere have no way in making money.

 

They have, instead: grab a white/white victory (with some proper modules) and just hold it in safe waters. When you are short of money, just make  a couple of max rank solo PVE mission (for a PVPer it should be a quick business to manage with a couple of dumb IAs) and you will get your million in no time.

10 minutes ago, Eyesore said:

we need more playertrading/economy, not more useless ai-trading.

Simply not possible with the low population we always had in this game.

Edited by victor
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19 minutes ago, rediii said:

So you say all type of players can make their money with their playstyle (pvp, pve, trading) and when I tell you that you dont make money with pvp you tell me that the guys doing pvp should do pve to make their money?

trololol

No, I am saying that - like a PVE player, while he is doing his PVE stuffs like trade or chase IAs in unsafe waters, is not requested to like PVP for being involved in non consenusal PVP by players that enjoy PVP gameplay - it's not such a tragedy if a PVPer shall do some PVE stuffs from time to time in order to earn the money that he needs to spend in PVP.

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Just now, Intrepido said:

Every activity in the game should give enough rewards to players to fully enjoy the game.

Talking about this, rvr rewards are quite low... any thoughts @admin ?

So why if a PVE player wants PVP marks (and rewards) he is obliged to do PVP?

I am not telling that PVE players shall be awarded PVP marks, but simply that - to be honest - if a PVP player wants Combat marks and gold he could do PVP only, but if he wanted to have more of them he should have to engage in some PVE stuff. So basically he is still in a better position than a PVE player.

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Just now, rediii said:

The difference is. PvE players dont have to do pvp because they enjoy pve anyway and they can finance their pve and grow.

Why do pvp players need to do pve to sustain the thing they have fun with? It makes no sense at all and just encourages to play pve and not pve.

Same is with conquest.

 

Taking risks in general is not encouraged in NA. The game needs proper risk:reward ratio in my oppinion

Ok, then can you just explain to me why PVP ships are so hard to sell in capital cities shops, while PVE ships sell very easily?

My explanation is that the low demand of PVP shilp is due to the fact that most PVPers are perfectly able to build on their own (or to buy through marks system) the ships they need to fuel their PVP activity.

Yours?

Edited by victor
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Just now, Intrepido said:

One of the reasons PVP marks should change their rewards or completely removed of the game.

Also, this is PVP game, PVE is a support of PVP. But PVP players should have the option to do or not PVE stuff. With money you can get the same stuff that any player which is more fair for everybody.

Actually Naval Action - looking at its content - is, like in example EVE online, a MMORPG that includes, in PVP severs, open world non consensual PVP and RvR conquest mechanics. So it's your speculation that it is a "PVP game", I'd say its a hybrid game that includes PVE; PVP and RvR.

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The Problem:

Missions and trading rewards are fixed right now, that is the problem.

The easy fix:

Missions give the exact same amount of money, no matter whether there is 1 guy doing a mission around a town or whether therer are 100 guys doing missions around a town. If mission rewards are based on supply and demand, they will get lower the more people do missions. For example every town generates missions day on day one for 100% rewards. If they are being done, the town generates 50 more missions the next day with only 80% rewards etc. If the missions are not met, they are postet the next day for 120% rewards.

Then, suddenly, trade becomes more attractive if missions people think missions are more rewarding. They do more missions and mission rewards go down to a point where trading becomes more attractive.

The system balances itself out, to the point where missions and trading becomes similarly attractive when comparing rewards and risk.

Futher benefits:

With mission rewards depending on supply and demand: If missions are more profitable in remote ports and less profitable in safe zones and highly populated areas, we get more people out there, who are more likely to do PVP.

Other side of the coin:

Similarly the profits from trading are more or less fixed right now. I have posted this multiple times already. If a town has a need for a trading good and this need is not met, the price should increase by, say 10-20%, the next day until profits are so large that traders supply the good.

To balance supply and demand, the production of trading goods should also be more flexible: if port-produced trading goods are not bought, prices should go down, but also supply. If trading goods are sold out every day, prices should increase, but also supply. This is a simple supply curve (Economics 101).

Summary:
Making mission rewards and trading profits follow supply and demand will results in an equilibrium, which benefits all, especially the @admins, who do not have to constantly react to these kind of topics and change mission rewards every two weeks. =)

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Just now, rediii said:

Can you tell me what a pvp ship and what a pve ship is?

Also its pretty often just the price. Personally I cant buy ships most of the time because I dont get any money out of pvp. I need money to buy repairs

Of course:

a fir/fir failfitted wasa (copper plating, bowen and gazelle) is a PVP ship.

a white/white bucentaure (bridgetown, basic hull refit, british rig) is a PVE ship.

a live/white ocean (cartaghena, bridgetown, guacata powder) is a RvR ship.

PS: i use to craft and sell ships upgrades included.

Edited by victor
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