PVP Missions

[Slim McSauce]

It feels bad, pretty much every PVP encounter I have is against noobs who don't want to fight. There needs to be a way for PVPers from two nations to converge on the map and engage each other with the intention to fight that DOESN'T require setting up a battle. 

We need daily PVP missions that navies from each nation can go and fight it out so we don't have to hunt noobs on OW which hurts new player experience.

Please devs, we need ways for experienced PVPers to PVP without interfering new player progress 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Liq]

[TheHaney]

in b4 someone says "NA: Legends"

EDIT: Dammit.

 

In all seriousness I like this concept. Personally I'd love to see a mechanic around hostility missions? Maybe the nation who owns the port being targeted gets a notification of some sort?

Edited November 20, 2017 by TheHaney

[Slim McSauce]

8 minutes ago, Liq said:

 

Its not legends. The Admiralty of any navy would provide captains actual missions and not just send them out to hunt blindly. There's nothing legends-y about asking for OW PVP objectives 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Slim McSauce]

11 minutes ago, TheHaney said:

in b4 someone says "NA: Legends"

EDIT: Dammit.

 

In all seriousness I like this concept. Personally I'd love to see a mechanic around hostility missions? Maybe the nation who owns the port being targeted gets a notification of some sort?

IMO i'd like these to be separate from PBs, as PB and RVR is already providing their crowd with almost certain PVP. 

These PVP missions should just be random events on the map. Once spawned both sides have an hour to get to the battle and the winners get their PVP marks and perhaps some other kind of pay out.

All this does is allow people who want to go find some PVP to do so without having to lurk capitals for noobs. It in no way takes away from the OW aspect of the game.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[TheHaney]

Makes sense!

I'm trying to think of the actual mechanics of the instance. Here's what I could picture:

- Event generates, notification (similar to PB) flashes for all players with rough location.

- Different versions of the event such as shallow-water, frigate only, lineship only, with scaling rewards. Maybe a version that's completely open for all ships?

- Maybe a couple "special" versions like a shallow-water swamp race where, once a certain number of ships join, you get moved to a "start location" and the first ship to get to the "end location" via a tricky waterway wins. free-for-all deathrace with cannons.

- First player to enter instance starts 1hr timer at which point the instance locks.

- Maybe something to do while waiting for more. A couple of low-level AI ships on either side just to get something going?

- BR cap maybe? Or some type of BR balancing mechanism (perhaps an algorithm that locks instance and creates new one if the player joining drastically changes the BR)

- What would the winning mechanism be? Most kills/assists over the course of the battle? Or maybe a king-of-the-hill type thing? I'm trying to think of a win mechanic that would prevent players from 1) joining and then afk'ing at best point of sail and 2) having no reason to join late because they won't get enough time to achieve anything.

Edited November 20, 2017 by TheHaney

[Jarlath Morrow]

About a year ago, there were "PVP events" that occurred several times per day. The events were simple - a large circle would appear on the world map, either between Shroud Cay and Cayo Romano for the shallow event, or between Jeremie and Puerto Escondido for the deep water event.

In the event zone, fleet ships were disabled which meant that all combat was 100% humans. Other than that, it provided an obvious place for people to look for each other or even play "king of the hill." Also there were rewards for getting kills and assists, but I think these were unnecessary as the real rewards were good fights and meeting cool people.

The zones were out in the middle of nowhere, so (mostly) everyone you found either wanted to have a nice fight or was at least curious about PVP. Of course you would occasionally find the unlucky trader/traveler that didn't check his map.

[TheHaney]

1 minute ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

"PVP events"

Whatever happened to them? That sounds like a super-simple but effective mechanic.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, TheHaney said:

- Event generates, notification (similar to PB) flashes for all players with rough location.

- Different versions of the event such as shallow-water, frigate only, lineship only, with scaling rewards.

Yes and yes.

Just now, TheHaney said:

- First player to enter instance starts 1hr timer at which point the instance locks.

- Maybe something to do while waiting for more. A couple of low-level AI ships on either side just to get something going?

Just 1 hour timer before battle starts. If a player had to join the start the timer then no one would want to be the first and wait an hour. Battle begins an hour from the notification, people can join as soon as notified but the battle will start on the hour to give people time to sail to.

Just now, TheHaney said:

- BR cap maybe? Or some type of BR balancing mechanism (perhaps an algorithm that locks instance and creates new one if the player joining drastically changes the BR)

- What would the winning mechanism be? Most kills/assists over the course of the battle? Or maybe a king-of-the-hill type thing? I'm trying to think of a win mechanic that would prevent players from 1) joining and then afk'ing at best point of sail and 2) having no reason to join late because they won't get enough time to achieve anything.

Could be played around with by the devs. But a single circle mode would probably be the best starting off giving a clear objective and prevent runners delaying the battle. The instance should be placed directly inbetween the closest 2 ports of each nation to give fair opportunity to get to the battle.

Rewards is a head scratcher that I'll leave to others. I like paints tho 

 

 

 

[Slim McSauce]

2 minutes ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

About a year ago, there were "PVP events" that occurred several times per day. The events were simple - a large circle would appear on the world map, either between Shroud Cay and Cayo Romano for the shallow event, or between Jeremie and Puerto Escondido for the deep water event.

In the event zone, fleet ships were disabled which meant that all combat was 100% humans. Other than that, it provided an obvious place for people to look for each other or even play "king of the hill." Also there were rewards for getting kills and assists, but I think these were unnecessary as the real rewards were good fights and meeting cool people.

The zones were out in the middle of nowhere, so (mostly) everyone you found either wanted to have a nice fight or was at least curious about PVP. Of course you would occasionally find the unlucky trader/traveler that didn't check his map.

That's quite literally exactly what I'm suggesting. Why would they take these out?

[Malachy]

I think they should use hostility zones for pvp. If a port is put into hostility, it makes a big red zone in the map for three days before the port battle and three days after it. These zones should be larger than current safe zones, encompassing a large surrounding area. Pvp occurring outside these areas should require a pvp flag. When a zone pops up, rare resources should spawn in the contested area. The resources should weigh too much for cutters or lynx. Thinking it should be items like Cartagena tar etc. not only does this encourage pvp and cooperative play, things like blockades, blockade running, and rvr has a purpose.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Malachy

[Doug Maoz]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That's quite literally exactly what I'm suggesting. Why would they take these out?

I really liked these events, they were what I cut my PVP teeth on and how I gained most of my experience.

It was great because people would come, show up, and even arrange fights; a good time was had by all on most days, whoever won or lost. People would also tend to not run away, since everyone was there to fight.

[RaimundoJoe]

2 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Please devs, we need ways for experienced PVPers to PVP without interfering new player progress 

Please, give this a try!

[Archaos]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

That's quite literally exactly what I'm suggesting. Why would they take these out?

If I remember correctly the shallow water one was mostly deserted and was mainly used for people to farm alts. I went there a few times but seldom saw anyone. 

I never attended the deep water one, but I did hear that there was a lot of organised groups who would only engage when they had a numerical advantage and it was not really a place to look for action solo. I think it had a lot more action than the shallow water event and maybe someone who experienced it more could let you know how it was.

Despite what a lot of people say about wanting PvP, there are many who only want it when they know the odds are in their favour.

[Malachy]

1 hour ago, Archaos said:

 

Despite what a lot of people say about wanting PvP, there are many who only want it when they know the odds are in their favour.

That's human nature. Even in one in ones, I do my best to stack the odds in my favor. I don't deliberately handicap myself or pick a fight I don't think I can win. 

The best pvpers on the server though are at least willing to atttempt long odds or fighting folks of equal skill level. 2 or three less skilled folks can also be a fair fight for one good player. Batman, grudge and another talkative Brit discovered this today.

i don't mind being beaten by my peers. I do mind getting beaten by folks who aren't nearly as good who use shady game mechanics

Edited November 21, 2017 by Malachy

[Slim McSauce]

3 hours ago, Jarlath Morrow said:

About a year ago, there were "PVP events" that occurred several times per day. The events were simple - a large circle would appear on the world map, either between Shroud Cay and Cayo Romano for the shallow event, or between Jeremie and Puerto Escondido for the deep water event.

In the event zone, fleet ships were disabled which meant that all combat was 100% humans. Other than that, it provided an obvious place for people to look for each other or even play "king of the hill." Also there were rewards for getting kills and assists, but I think these were unnecessary as the real rewards were good fights and meeting cool people.

The zones were out in the middle of nowhere, so (mostly) everyone you found either wanted to have a nice fight or was at least curious about PVP. Of course you would occasionally find the unlucky trader/traveler that didn't check his map.

 

2 hours ago, Doug Maoz said:

I really liked these events, they were what I cut my PVP teeth on and how I gained most of my experience.

It was great because people would come, show up, and even arrange fights; a good time was had by all on most days, whoever won or lost. People would also tend to not run away, since everyone was there to fight.

 

2 hours ago, Archaos said:

If I remember correctly the shallow water one was mostly deserted and was mainly used for people to farm alts. I went there a few times but seldom saw anyone. 

I never attended the deep water one, but I did hear that there was a lot of organised groups who would only engage when they had a numerical advantage and it was not really a place to look for action solo. I think it had a lot more action than the shallow water event and maybe someone who experienced it more could let you know how it was.

Despite what a lot of people say about wanting PvP, there are many who only want it when they know the odds are in their favour.

Hmm, it seems like PVP zones had mixed interest for good reason. It failed to achieve the goal of making PVP accessible to all players. Yes you could go and fight other players, but there were only 4 zones you could sail to, they never moved, and you still had to plan with the enemy to get a battle which honestly kills the immersion for me.

You know how the treasure fleet always attract everyone who is there for the notification? PVP missions have to capture that same excitement or they won't work. They have to be rapid, but slow enough for people to chain them together if they want. They have to be dynamic, they must be set between 2 nations, and put close enough to were both nations can reach them in a reasonable sail. They can't be haphazardly plopped on the map as a looming 2nd option like the bathroom at a wedding rehearsal.

There needs to be legitimate reward for winning one of these to justify them. Anywhere from extra PVP marks, upgrades, books, paints, or  notes. There needs to be extra personal reward for people to get hyped on them. The rewards needs to be just good enough to where a player would be pissed if they miss one because it such a good opportunity to get whatever.

I think the best reward is a modified version of the gold chest that you get from epic events that is guaranteed to give you 1 ship note along with a random assortment of mods/books/blueprints/goods. Everyone on the winning side would get one of these to take back. Because the battle would be running a cap circle setup, any one ship can cap the circle and get a chest, there's never a reason to not show up like we see with PBs.

And because you recoup ships along with all the other potential rewards, doing these missions can be completely self sustainable. Just imaging being able to make a living off PVP alone, no more required PVE for mods, books, blueprints, etc.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Archaos]

42 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

 

 

Hmm, it seems like PVP zones had mixed interest for good reason. It failed to achieve the goal of making PVP accessible to all players. Yes you could go and fight other players, but there were only 4 zones you could sail to, they never moved, and you still had to plan with the enemy to get a battle which honestly kills the immersion for me.

You know how the treasure fleet always attract everyone who is there for the notification? PVP missions have to capture that same excitement or they won't work. They have to be rapid, but slow enough for people to chain them together if they want. They have to be dynamic, they must be set between 2 nations, and put close enough to were both nations can reach them in a reasonable sail. They can't be haphazardly plopped on the map as a looming 2nd option like the bathroom at a wedding rehearsal.

There needs to be legitimate reward for winning one of these to justify them. Anywhere from extra PVP marks, upgrades, books, paints, or  notes. There needs to be extra personal reward for people to get hyped on them. The rewards needs to be just good enough to where a player would be pissed if they miss one because it such a good opportunity to get whatever.

I think the best reward is a modified version of the gold chest that you get from epic events that is guaranteed to give you 1 ship note along with a random assortment of mods/books/blueprints/goods. Everyone on the winning side would get one of these to take back. Because the battle would be running a cap circle setup, any one ship can cap the circle and get a chest, there's never a reason to not show up like we see with PBs.

And because you recoup ships along with all the other potential rewards, doing these missions can be completely self sustainable. Just imaging being able to make a living off PVP alone, no more required PVE for mods, books, blueprints, etc.

 

 

Nice suggestion, but you can guarantee players will abuse it if the rewards are good enough. This is always going to be the hardest thing to solve with PvP, how to reward it sufficiently without making it too attractive to abuse. As can be seen from the good rewards available for PvP marks, people started abusing it.

I like the idea of battles randomly between different nations that dynamically move to different areas round the map, maybe the number of players in an area could determine where the event was likely to spawn, for example there is a lot of US players in a certain region and close by there are a lot of French players, the game could realize that and generate an event for US vs French somewhere between them. Would need to be worked out how other nations could affect it etc.

I am not sure how you think such PvP could be self sustaining as with any battle there are winners and losers, it can only be self sustaining if you are always on the winning side and even this becomes self defeating as if you always win the other side eventually stops showing up.

 

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Archaos said:

Nice suggestion, but you can guarantee players will abuse it if the rewards are good enough. This is always going to be the hardest thing to solve with PvP, how to reward it sufficiently without making it too attractive to abuse. As can be seen from the good rewards available for PvP marks, people started abusing it.

I like the idea of battles randomly between different nations that dynamically move to different areas round the map, maybe the number of players in an area could determine where the event was likely to spawn, for example there is a lot of US players in a certain region and close by there are a lot of French players, the game could realize that and generate an event for US vs French somewhere between them. Would need to be worked out how other nations could affect it etc.

I am not sure how you think such PvP could be self sustaining as with any battle there are winners and losers, it can only be self sustaining if you are always on the winning side and even this becomes self defeating as if you always win the other side eventually stops showing up.

 

Abuse will always be present, we can't let it deter us from improving the game. At least with this it can be easily monitored by players and admins. I'm not a fan of PVP marks, exclusive rewards can be from the loot you get instead of a store that takes up too much space for basically being glorified combat marks.

PVP very much can be self sustaining in this system. The chest you get will always give you a ship+loot with PVP marks to top it off. Every win pays off more than losing a single ship. I don't see how anyone would would be too defeated to show when what's on the line is as easily obtained as a captured frigate. I'd throw a dozen of those a day if it meant every time getting a chance at a free 1st rate + a bunch of mods. Plus even if you don't win, you're having fun and getting better at PVP which is worth more than anything.

 

[Landsman]

9 hours ago, Archaos said:

a lot of organised groups who would only engage when they had a numerical advantage and it was not really a place to look for action solo

So basically NA in a nutshell 

[Slim McSauce]

6 hours ago, Callaghan92 said:

For it to work and continue working to provide pvp, you would have to give something to both the winning and losing sides, obviously losing being given less. Most people wont participate and will stop showing up if they always lose and get nothing from it, especially if it costs them everytime they participate.

Like for instance, side A has 10 organised members, side B has 5 unorganised members, why would most people even bother with side B if they lost and got nothing, but yet it cost them to enter (ships, mods crew etc)

The example you posted is obviously unwinnable for B side, but during prime time you'd see more even numbers. Pirate v US it'll be a 25v25 almost every time.