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Iroquois Confederacy

Conquest Timezone Suggested Maps

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Resources like white and live oak would need to be x amount of distance away from safe zones. Aka no white oak or live oak 2 ports away from ctown.  Same goes for teak or the other woods. Capital regions would allow for the creation of ships, but if you want that good wood... you need to venture out.  To use the US for example, the closest live oak port would need to be halfway down Florida or something and it would need to be hauled up.  While not 100% historically accurate, balance needs to be achieved.  

Boom trader hunting is back on the menu.

Another suggestion I saw on the forums once was that to incentivize crafting outside the home ports, you need to create a system where it’s cheaper in the capturable ports.  So let’s say if you want to craft a vic in KPR it requires 150% more materials than say somewhere in the gulf. Reasoning?  Dockyard corruption.   I thought that was clever.   

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Clan alliances arent in the game.

My comment about the gold is how easy is to earn it now. Me, being an average player, have all that gold. I couldnt have a clue how much money can gather all the clan members of HRE.

 

Hence why my proposal includes the introduction of clan alliances.  Convenient right?

Currently the size of HREs holdings on the map should bankrupt them.  It doesn’t.  Maintenance needs to go up exponentially.  I think one clan on global has like 50 ports, none of them profitable all of them were neutral.  No way should they hold that many.  

So again stop looking at the map and the suggestions thought the lense of today’s game. Think beyond it.  

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I really like your thoughts on crafting, @Christendom - it's definitely a weak spot of mine.  But don't sell yourself short on historical accuracy either.  Live Oak was, if memory serves, historically harvested in the swamps of Georgia.

I do prefer my map to yours as far as timers go at first look, but I wouldn't mind adding your ideas for resources wholly into my own map.

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15 minutes ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

I really like your thoughts on crafting, @Christendom - it's definitely a weak spot of mine.  But don't sell yourself short on historical accuracy either.  Live Oak was, if memory serves, historically harvested in the swamps of Georgia.

I do prefer my map to yours as far as timers go at first look, but I wouldn't mind adding your ideas for resources wholly into my own map.

The issue I have with your map is the time zone folks will just fight each other.  Thus limiting the map for everyone.  If you can’t capture ports in other time zones and hold them and change the timers then night flips are back why bother   

rediii and his super Swedes could sail up to Florida, take a port at 3am their time and then lose it again at 3 am the following Tuesday.  What’s the point?

Your map would work better if this was a 100% clan oriented game and not nations.   US clans could fight other US clans for example in their region, but if they are all in the US nation as it is currently, insert snooze fest.  

Edited by Christendom

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27 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Currently the size of HREs holdings on the map should bankrupt them.  It doesn’t.  Maintenance needs to go up exponentially.  I think one clan on global has like 50 ports, none of them profitable all of them were neutral.  No way should they hold that many.

This is my issue with the system aswell. Costs should indeed be exponential so your empire collapses if you overextend it. Currently it is was too easy for zerg nations like EU swedes to dominate the map and take and hold any port they want at will...

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14 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Your map would work better if this was a 100% clan oriented game and not nations.   US clans could fight other US clans for example in their region, but if they are all in the US nation as it is currently, insert snooze fest.  

I can definitely see your point here.  The European time zone has tons of national diversity - Dutch, Swedes, Danes, French, Spanish, and Brits, but the Americas time zone really just has those Spanish who live in the Americas, and... the United States.

I wonder if a new "Hard Core" faction could be added - the Republic of Texas?  This would add some national diversity to the Americas time zone.

Oceanic would have the same issue, being primarily Australians and New Zealanders going to the Brits.  I simply don't know any other faction that is awake during that period.  @Jeheilmight be able to weigh in on that.

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3 minutes ago, Landsman said:

This is my issue with the system aswell. Costs should indeed be exponential so your empire collapses if you overextend it. Currently it is was too easy for zerg nations like EU swedes to dominate the map and take and hold any port they want at will...

I am very keen on the idea of increased "maintenance fees" for an increased number of ports.  I like it a lot.

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39 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Currently the size of HREs holdings on the map should bankrupt them.  It doesn’t.  Maintenance needs to go up exponentially.  I think one clan on global has like 50 ports, none of them profitable all of them were neutral.  No way should they hold that many.

Question for 50m gold:

If one clan controls 50 ports and clan has 25-40 active players, what happens if several nations/clans attack this single clan 4-5 ports at the same time?

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1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

Question for 50m gold:

If one clan controls 50 ports and clan has 25-40 active players, what happens if several nations/clans attack this single clan 4-5 ports at the same time?

Nothing.  The clan in question on global is like 6 guys that take neutral ports in mortar brigs from the carta area all the way up to the gulf.  No one cares because we don’t have the pop to fight over them.  I’m astonished how they keep the lights on at all those ports.  They seldom PvP and RVR.  I just assume they grind all day every day to pay the rent.  As you know well, Brits love those dots on the map

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1 hour ago, Christendom said:

Hence why my proposal includes the introduction of clan alliances.  Convenient right?

Currently the size of HREs holdings on the map should bankrupt them.  It doesn’t.  Maintenance needs to go up exponentially.  I think one clan on global has like 50 ports, none of them profitable all of them were neutral.  No way should they hold that many.  

So again stop looking at the map and the suggestions thought the lense of today’s game. Think beyond it.  

I look at the map and suggestions thought the lense of what we have already tested. And unfortunately, lots of the proposals just copy much of the mechanics of the past.

Also you rely on two things that you cant fully control;

1. Clan alliances. The nation which dont have a AUS and a US friendly clan is just f.ucked and out of most rvr.

2. Money: which depends, partially, of how much time do you play. So the gap will be even bigger. It is not a coincidence that the first nation-clans to craft the big ships were those with the hardcore playerbase. As big as a nation is, the bigger its hardcore playerbase. 

I still well remember the old days of the SLRN & BRITS clans.

Edited by Intrepido

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Just now, Iroquois Confederacy said:

So, @Intrepido I can see where your issues are with Christendom's map proposal.  What about mine, where the timers are hard-coded into the map itself?

It is better than Chris in one point, fixed primetimes.

While I agree with Chris that clan alliances must happen, but for different reasons.

However I find that your proposal have an important problem; it does not properly take into account the need of different nations inside the same area. Something noted by Chris before me.

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Christendom said:

Nothing.  The clan in question on global is like 6 guys that take neutral ports in mortar brigs from the carta area all the way up to the gulf.  No one cares because we don’t have the pop to fight over them.  I’m astonished how they keep the lights on at all those ports.  They seldom PvP and RVR.  I just assume they grind all day every day to pay the rent.  As you know well, Brits love those dots on the map

That doesn't sound like game design issue. If someone would care, you could have beaten them easly. On PvP EU a Chinese clans CH+PLA are controlling about 20 ports if not more. Their clan Leader is Lord Protector of 28-30 ports in total (top on the server).

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26 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

I look at the map and suggestions thought the lense of what we have already tested. And unfortunately, lots of the proposals just copy much of the mechanics of the past.

Also you rely on two things that you cant fully control;

1. Clan alliances. The nation which dont have a AUS and a US friendly clan is just f.ucked and out of most rvr.

2. Money: which depends, partially, of how much time do you play. So the gap will be even bigger. It is not a coincidence that the first nation-clans to craft the big ships were those with the hardcore playerbase. As big as a nation is, the bigger its hardcore playerbase. 

I still well remember the old days of the SLRN & BRITS clans.

1 - The door swings both ways.  The US/AUS clans that don't have EU based allies will suffer.  You need us, we need you.  Sounds like the makings of a relationship.  Maybe it's time we just cut all the past drama and figured out how to play with each other.  food for thought I suppose.  France and Spain are pretty much the only 2 player bases that do not have a large group of other nationalities within their nations.  They also are routinely plagued with internal issues and disorganization.  Maybe it's time to get some new blood in there and become a bit more diverse.  More food for thought.  

2 - Money is easily fixable.  Remember that at the start of this patch money was an issue.  Clans have 40mil now 3 months in.  It was of course a bit too hardcore then, but a system similar to that WITH the port tax system would bring balance to the force I think.  Remember that in what I'm proposing, if you want the best ships you're gonna have to ship in stuff from outside the safe zones.  There will be more loss than there is currently.  Mission pay outs could always be tweaked.

Your point about hardcore players applies to every system in every game.  Players who live inside naval action will always have an advantage over those that do not, regardless of what's in play.  A hardcore / organized clan will always have a leg up.  As admin stated in one of posts, this is no country for old men.  

Mechanics of the past have worked out.  Remember that this game had the most active players when the timer/lord protector system was in play.  Fine woods and the introduction of hostility killed it.  So no, just because an idea didn't work then....does not mean it won't work now.  The variables of the equation are different so the outcome will be.  

Anyway we're just going in circles here rehashing the same old shit from a dozen threads.  Folks like myself and @Iroquois Confederacy are trying to make the game work for everyone.  I hope @admin still shares that opinion.  

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I can assure more nations than Spain and France will have the problem. Sweden, Denmark also didnt have enough players to fill pb out of their primetime.

Now VP, Prussia, Poland and Russia (despite having REDS some US players) will face the same issue.

So, you cant say that it is a problem of some nations, when half of the nations in the server had this problem. 

Admin's statement may have changed a bit after the 10.0 mega patch.

Good intentions do not translate directly into a better game. I cant believe that Northernwolves's proposal of the Fine Woods was thought to make the game much worse.

The game didnt have those numbers because of the lord protector system. Most of the EU community asked the devs to change/remove it. If it was a so cool system, why did devs remove it?

 

 

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There's yet another option.

Just put everything from India to Baja, Greenland to Cape Horn in the map. This would include the entire Atlantic, the Mediterranean, and the North Sea, along with a small portion of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

Give the nations their historical holdings and real timezones (perhaps modified for east of Africa and the Pacific to be more inline with Oceanic). Add in those nations (that had actual navies) that would have been historically represented here during the Napoleonic era. If that's too many ports, cull some of those that were little more than villages with a dock.

Bam...one map large enough for multiple timezones, with historical representation, that will remain large enough for the thousands of players we would all like to see some day.

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So, @Intrepido, @Christendom, a few thoughts:

1.  If there is not enough competition in one time zone, and they are bored staring at their own dots, wouldn't some naturally gravitate to other factions, just to have fun doing port battles?  IE - Wouldn't some Americans go to France or Spain?

2.  Intrepido, one of your concerns was not enough inner-strife within the time zone itself.  How might you draw the map to better encourage that?

 

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3 hours ago, CoyoteJohn said:

There's yet another option.

Just put everything from India to Baja, Greenland to Cape Horn in the map. This would include the entire Atlantic, the Mediterranean, and the North Sea, along with a small portion of the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

Give the nations their historical holdings and real timezones (perhaps modified for east of Africa and the Pacific to be more inline with Oceanic). Add in those nations (that had actual navies) that would have been historically represented here during the Napoleonic era. If that's too many ports, cull some of those that were little more than villages with a dock.

Bam...one map large enough for multiple timezones, with historical representation, that will remain large enough for the thousands of players we would all like to see some day.

I even thought 2 maps, the caribbean for the global guys and the meditterranean/europe for the europpeans. One server, two different maps for each primetimes.

1 hour ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

So, @Intrepido, @Christendom, a few thoughts:

1.  If there is not enough competition in one time zone, and they are bored staring at their own dots, wouldn't some naturally gravitate to other factions, just to have fun doing port battles?  IE - Wouldn't some Americans go to France or Spain?

2.  Intrepido, one of your concerns was not enough inner-strife within the time zone itself.  How might you draw the map to better encourage that?

 

1. Yes... but imo it is not good to force players to change nations for having fun. Oceania have a big territory for them when its market is not so big as europe/us.

2. Mixing primetimes in the way of chris map is a shore. You end being contraint very soon in your conquest due to the artificial frontiers of the multiple primetimes.

I would have a clear division/line between Global and Europe area. Every part of the map should have enough room for everyone and historical positions of capitals.

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Love it or hate it, this game needs a single server to include both port battle timers.

Iv come up with a list of ports (below) that I'd propose become attackable on 24hr windows.

The areas I suggest include the entire Gulf of Mexico, North Bahamas, secret island, hatii and four ports in the map.

This would total 108 ports that would be open to attack (global server) times.

The ports include; (s means shallow. D means deep)

South of the Gulf of Mexico.

Mugeres d, Controy s, Conil d, Cuyo d, Salam d, Ysil d, Sisal d, Sabinas d, Campeche d, Champion d, Peurto Real d, Victoria d, Santa ana d, Espiritu Santo d, Alvardo d.

West of the gulf of Mexico 

Vera Crazy d, Bernal d, Almeria d, Tamiagua d, Tampico d, Tordo d, Soto la Marina d, San Fernándo d, Esteros d, El Rancho d, Aransas d, La Bahia s.

North of the gulf of Mexico 

San Luis d, Ahumada s, Sabina d, Calcasreu d, Constance s, Yermiou d, Atchatalaya d, Terrebonne d, Barataria d, Saint-Malo d, Biloxi d, Mobile d, Penzacola d, Santa Rosa d, San Jose s, Apalachicola d, San Marcos s.

East of the Gulf of Mexico 

Hitten Hatcha s, Las Sabinas s, Cayo del Anclote d, Tampa d, Sarazota d, Gasparilla d, Manataca s, Cayo Vacas s, Islamorada d, Key West d, Las Tortugas d.

North Bahamas. (all shallow)

Walkers cay, West end, waters bay, road rocks, Crown Haven, mangrove Cay, turtle Cay, marsh harbour, little harbour, sandy point, La desconocida, frozen Cay, Birmi, Morgan bluff.

hidden island 

North Inlet d, kids harbour d, rum Cove s.

All of Hatii (including la Navasse) 

Ports including Cartagena/Pitt's Town would be on a 24hr attack window 

Ports will be listed later.

What ports would you like added to idea.

Kind regards 

(format on phone, update pending)

As requested 

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11 minutes ago, monk33y said:

Love it or hate it, this game needs a single server to include both port battle timers.

Iv come up with a list of ports (below) that I'd propose become attackable on 24hr windows.

The areas I suggest include the entire Gulf of Mexico, North Bahamas, secret island, hatii and four ports in the map.

This would total 108 ports that would be open to attack (global server) times.

The ports include; (s means shallow. D means deep)

South of the Gulf of Mexico.

Mugeres d, Controy s, Conil d, Cuyo d, Salam d, Ysil d, Sisal d, Sabinas d, Campeche d, Champion d, Peurto Real d, Victoria d, Santa ana d, Espiritu Santo d, Alvardo d.

West of the gulf of Mexico 

Vera Crazy d, Bernal d, Almeria d, Tamiagua d, Tampico d, Tordo d, Soto la Marina d, San Fernándo d, Esteros d, El Rancho d, Aransas d, La Bahia s.

North of the gulf of Mexico 

San Luis d, Ahumada s, Sabina d, Calcasreu d, Constance s, Yermiou d, Atchatalaya d, Terrebonne d, Barataria d, Saint-Malo d, Biloxi d, Mobile d, Penzacola d, Santa Rosa d, San Jose s, Apalachicola d, San Marcos s.

East of the Gulf of Mexico 

Hitten Hatcha s, Las Sabinas s, Cayo del Anclote d, Tampa d, Sarazota d, Gasparilla d, Manataca s, Cayo Vacas s, Islamorada d, Key West d, Las Tortugas d.

North Bahamas. (all shallow)

Walkers cay, West end, waters bay, road rocks, Crown Haven, mangrove Cay, turtle Cay, marsh harbour, little harbour, sandy point, La desconocida, frozen Cay, Birmi, Morgan bluff.

hidden island 

North Inlet d, kids harbour d, rum Cove s.

All of Hatii (including la Navasse) 

Ports including Cartagena/Pitt's Town would be on a 24hr attack window 

Ports will be listed later.

What ports would you like added to idea.

Kind regards 

(format on phone, update pending)

As requested 

It would perhaps be better if we could visualize with a map.

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7 hours ago, Christendom said:

1 - The door swings both ways.  The US/AUS clans that don't have EU based allies will suffer.  You need us, we need you.  Sounds like the makings of a relationship.  Maybe it's time we just cut all the past drama and figured out how to play with each other.  food for thought I suppose.  France and Spain are pretty much the only 2 player bases that do not have a large group of other nationalities within their nations.

.

9 hours ago, Christendom said:

The issue I have with your map is the time zone folks will just fight each other. 

Same old song and dance, really haven't learnt anything. No wonder why global tanked.

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2 hours ago, Iroquois Confederacy said:

One question I would have for @monk33y is, "Why should EU get protected ports, while the rest of the world does not?"

We have two servers... One with no time locks (global server with low players) and a second with time locks (eu server with players)! 

The European players like port battle tines, global server players do not! 

I'm waisting my time, global server is a failure and yet the few players who use it want to hold the rest of us ransom!!

Either have two servers, one busy, one quiet or one server with compromises!

My idea (not even my idea, it's been around for ages) Gives ports for both groups of players from different timezones something to fight over under a single roof.... 

The eu server has a high steady population, why would the Devs risk upsetting them for the server that struggles to get more players than the pve server!!!!! If we want one merged server the idea I'm pushing seems the best of a shit situation... 

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@monk33y, wouldn't a compromise be having different ports or regions with different port battle times, instead of having one group of players having a protected time slot, and everyone else not?

The suggestion you offer boils down to "night flips for some, but not all."  That's why I personally favor hard coded conquest timers that differ based on region (as shown in the map I linked on the first page).

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