Promoting more PVP

[Landsman]

19 minutes ago, victor said:

More preys around, more predators around. Rather simple.

More prey doing PvE maybe?

20 minutes ago, victor said:

For the rest, I remind you that if PVP servers will actually had rules that induce all the PVErs to get away, you could wake up one morning in barely 100ish populated server (and I am being optimist). This is why Devs are not doing what the PVP crew asks. We tested this thing with the infamous "summer mega patch". It was a patch "all for PVPers" and, in a while, the population of the PVP servers sank to abismal levels (and therefore it was very difficult to find OS PVP).

Haha, yeah right. Again complete bullshit. The patch wasn't for PvP players, because ships, cannons and upgrades were made expensive = not good for PvP. You know why the PvE server is good as dead? Because PvE is boring AF, otherwise the PvE server would be the one with more population. Sure some people like to do some PvE every now and then and there is nothing wrong with it but we have enough PvE... no need to add more. The player numbers sank to abysmal levels because the game was too hardmode for people with jobs and families - it was too much PvE and not too much PvP and you can see this in steam reviews and feedback.

28 minutes ago, victor said:

What a lot of PVP oriented players seem not to understand is that in a MMORPG that includes both open world PVP and PVE content, there is not "just PVE" on one SIDE and "just PVP" on the other side, while there is a consistent part of PVE players (like me, in example) that usually run their carebear things (that, to be profitable, include the risk of being sunk by PVPers), but also often go out for some OS PVP.

Yeah, but we have enough PvE elements? So why add more that further distract people from going out to PvP? Adding more PvE elements to the PvE server would be good but not to the PvP one...

[victor]

Just now, Landsman said:

Again complete bullshit.

Ok man, I realized that is impossible to have a civil discussion with you.

Go on with calling bullshit different opinions, the end will be that no one will be disposed to discuss with you. So you can finally claim you were right.

I personally stop here.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[Yngvarr]

11 minutes ago, victor said:

Ok man, I realized that is impossible to have a civil discussion with you.

Go on with calling bullshit different opinions, the end will be that no one will be disposed to discuss with you. So you can finally claim you were right.

I personally stop here.

Right you are.

It's a little like a horse with blinkers on, they only can see what's in front of them, which is PVP.

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, victor said:

Well, last try on my side. It's not a matter of "if", but a matter of "at what price".

I am a ship crafter and dealer in PVP EU and I can confirm that the ONLY market that goes now with decent prices for crafters is the one of PVE ships (both for missions and fleeting).

If you try to sell a PVP specialized ship hull (let's say a teak/teak endy or a teak/white consti), either you sell it at low price or you do not sell at all. Not mentioning surprises that are so easy to craft that have almost no value.

Even worse for PB fitted ships.

This situation means that RvR and PVP players and clans self product their ships.

That is the problem: dedicated crafters (which are mostly PVE players) cannot be successful in PVP if they do not spend a lot of time and resources in doing it, PVP dedicated players may be successful in crafting with no effort at all because in clicking "craft" is implied no skill. So a "PVP crafter" actually has all the advantages and no downside.

That's a courtesy of how every time we go down this road people claim that "making ships cheaper will promote PvP!", and so they're made cheaper and cheaper while inflation skyrockets and markets are empty.

And accordingly, each time the only real difference is that the bar is raised - instead of everyone sailing 6-4th rates they now sail 4-1st rates while PvP objectives such as capturing prizes or actually caring about protecting/hunting traders disappears.

Even so, since PvErs and crafters get to opt out of PvP, then PvPers have every right to opt out of PvE and crafting (e.g. ship notes). It's silly, but that's what 'opt-out' gameplay gets us.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Guest

[Yngvarr]

20 minutes ago, Landsman said:

More prey doing PvE maybe?

Haha, yeah right. Again complete bullshit. The patch wasn't for PvP players, because ships, cannons and upgrades were made expensive = not good for PvP. You know why the PvE server is good as dead? Because PvE is boring AF, otherwise the PvE server would be the one with more population. Sure some people like to do some PvE every now and then and there is nothing wrong with it but we have enough PvE... no need to add more. The player numbers sank to abysmal levels because the game was too hardmode for people with jobs and families - it was too much PvE and not too much PvP and you can see this in steam reviews and feedback.

Yeah, but we have enough PvE elements? So why add more that further distract people from going out to PvP? Adding more PvE elements to the PvE server would be good but not to the PvP one...

I'd advise you not to shoot down any post commenting on PVP and PVE, just because it does not fit into your view of what this game should be.

In the spirit of having a meaningful and constructive discussion, I'd ask you to keep an open mind.

[victor]

8 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Even so, since PvErs and crafters get to opt out of PvP, then PvPers have every right to opt out of PvE and crafting (e.g. ship notes). It's silly, but that's what 'opt-out' gameplay gets us.

I agree with you. In fact for me the balance PVE-PVP-RVR is basically good as it is.

So my arguments ware raised against some PVP players (not you) that would like NA to be a world in which:

1) ship are almost free (but only for PVPers)

2) modules, skillbooks, repairs and so on are almost free (but only for PVPers).

3) best ships and modules and skillbooks are available only for PVPers.

4) careberars (besides being rewarded with poor prizes for their core gameplay) shall bear the risk to be killed at any time and in any place just benefit the PVP players.

And the most hilarious thing is that those players actually expect that, this way, the PVP servers will become magically full of players.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[Simon Cadete]

Right now we need to build up player base and increase numbers. More people playing means more prey which means more hunters. 

Most players do pve so more pve content is needed to bring people back or to retain new players. 

You improve pve to increase pvp and not the other way around.

Btw, I don’t consider ganging pvp so take that away and you don’t have much left to do besides pve

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 hour ago, victor said:

1. ONLY market that goes now with decent prices for crafters is the one of PVE ships (both for missions and fleeting).

2. If you try to sell a PVP specialized ship hull

3. Even worse for PB fitted ships. This situation means that RvR and PVP players and clans self product their ships.

4. That is the problem: dedicated crafters (which are mostly PVE players) cannot be successful in PVP if they do not spend a lot of time and resources in doing it, PVP dedicated players may be successful in crafting

1. PvE is important at the moment.  I have understood that most play PvE at the moment.  PvE is also the area where people grind their ranks and ship knowledge.  (I am not strong supporter of ship knowledge grind either, mainly increases PvE)

2. Have I understood correctly that right now PvP players basically take all the risk but get no reward?  They don't have money to buy from you + now you can buy directly with marks if you need.  You could be still right, we have not tested PvP with good rewards.  What you think would happen if they actually could afford to buy your ships?  Could it be possible that they also would do that?  Could they even order ships from you?  Sure, with the current rewards there is no change that they can afford your services.

3. Big clans will probably always have clan crafters.  But in the end, if your clan is good in PvP your clan does not need a clan trader/crafter.

4. You have to understand that an average player is losing more money than gaining from PvP.  At the moment they simply cannot afford to buy from you.

An average player, KD 1.  He sinks one enemy and sinks himself.  He lost plenty here.  He simply cannot afford to buy a new ship from you.  He is back in PvE and has to craft his own ship.  Player driven economy does not work for Average Joe.

What has to be your KD to actually be able to buy the next ship from you with cannons and upgrades?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Cmdr RideZ]

24 minutes ago, victor said:

4) careberars (besides being rewarded with poor prizes for their core gameplay) shall bear the risk to be killed at any time and in any place just benefit the PVP players.

And the most hilarious thing is that those players actually expect that, this way, the PVP servers will become magically full of players.

You as a trader would be the final deposit for all that gold that PvP players earn in their battles.  How is that so bad thing?  In the end of the day you are the only one that is benefiting.

edit. In the end PvE players, traders/crafters would rule in NA by using PvP players to fight their wars.  You are still complaining?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Cmdr RideZ

[Landsman]

48 minutes ago, victor said:

I personally stop here.

I guess there is no point in going on anyways, if you don't bring facts to the argumentation but only opinions? You pretend you are offended but actually you have no hard facts - only opinions... when i say it is bullshit i am just being honest with you man... If i told you my piss tastes like chocolate milk and would ask you to try it, would you try to reason with me and explain to me why it isn't so? Let's be real here...

[Cmdr RideZ]

@victor Right now you have to either trade/craft/PvE to get new ships OR CM/PvPMark.

CM and PvPM are a good idea if the only other option is to trade/craft/PvE.

CM And PvPM are decreasing player driven economy so it is a bad thing in the end.

What if they remove CM/PvPM ships and add conversion from CM to Gold and PvPM to Gold.  Give enough PvPM from PvP and they will come to buy their ships from you.  If you are in the same nation with me, my clan will buy every ship, cannon and upgrade from you.  1st I have to be able to afford that -> Higher PvP rewards.

[Landsman]

55 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

Right you are.

 

[Yngvarr]

1 minute ago, Landsman said:

 

You just proved my point.

[Landsman]

2 minutes ago, Yngvarr said:

You just proved my point.

[Lz3]

2 hours ago, Yngvarr said:

Right you are.

It's a little like a horse with blinkers on, they only can see what's in front of them, which is PVP.

Every single post I've seen from you so far is hating on PvP / PvPers. Maybe you should switch to the PvE server and live in Wilmington?

[Yngvarr]

Actually, i do not hate PVP, nor the players who engage in this activity.

However, I do have issues with how some players approach PVP.

 

Anyway, i'll not make any more forum posts concerning PVP, in many instances it seems to much a sensitive subject to have an earnest discussion over.

Send a PM, i you'd like.

I'll not respond further to this post

[victor]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

I guess there is no point in going on anyways, if you don't bring facts to the argumentation but only opinions? You pretend you are offended but actually you have no hard facts - only opinions... when i say it is bullshit i am just being honest with you man... If i told you my piss tastes like chocolate milk and would ask you to try it, would you try to reason with me and explain to me why it isn't so? Let's be real here...

I am very real.

If you cannot tell honesty from rudeness, I am nolonger disposed to discuss with you. Simple.

Your vulgar speech about piss and chocolate just confirms that we do not speak the same language.

I pointed out my facts, and you call it opinions. While your ideas are - of course - facts. 

I met a lot of people like you in my life and I learnt a long ago that going on with a dialogue with them is just useless.

So please, at least do not be so arrogant to decide for me if the reasons why I have decided stopping talking with you are legitimate or not. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[Slim McSauce]

I wish admiralty would do something other than push modules and upgrades on young captains. How about giving us an objective to complete so we can find PVP against other navies, and not have to resort to petty pirate-like tactics?

Edited November 17, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Niels Terkildsen]

OP: You definitely have a point with the book drops. It's quite clear, in general also, that grinding NPCs with your SoL gives you so much more than trying to go out and look for PvP in a 5th or 6th rate for example; most of the time you end up with nothing to show for your effort. I suppose another solution could be to simply make RNG-drop books available for PvP marks.

EDIT: And in the meantime make non-RNG-drop items that are now only available for PvP-marks, available through either Combat marks or RNG-drops... And only have cosmetics items exclusively available for PvP marks.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Niels Terkildsen

[Fargo]

Economy actually plays an important role, because it gives trading and conquest a meaning, therefore motivates related PvP. But every single change since wipe from capturable ships to safezones contradicts a meaningful economy.

Nothing against PvE content, but its seperate. We dont need an OW for this. Imagine they would add PvE content and PBs to NA legends, whats the point to play NA then?! Sailing out with meaningless cheap ships just to fight for no reason?! Thats just a very bad matchmaking system. Progress in NA is so fast that its not motivating either, a joke compared with similar but very successful games. 

Meaningful gameplay, thats what NA is totally missing. All NA really needs is a dynamic OW from economy to conquest, not specific content. PvP is whatever players do with this. The whole talk PvP content vs PvE content makes no sense. PvP means playing the game, and "PvP server" is just the not PvP restricted server. Escorting an important trader and nothing happens, thats sandbox gameplay. People just searching for PvP 24/7 in most cases are going to play legends, unless they are RPing.

[sounthernrebel78]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:47 AM, victor said:

More preys around, more predators around. Rather simple.

For the rest, I remind you that if PVP servers will actually had rules that induce all the PVErs to get away, you could wake up one morning in barely 100ish populated server (and I am being optimist). This is why Devs are not doing what the PVP crew asks. We tested this thing with the infamous "summer mega patch". It was a patch "all for PVPers" and, in a while, the population of the PVP servers sank to abismal levels (and therefore it was very difficult to find OS PVP).

What a lot of PVP oriented players seem not to understand is that in a MMORPG that includes both open world PVP and PVE content, there is not "just PVE" on one SIDE and "just PVP" on the other side, while there is a consistent part of PVE players (like me, in example) that usually run their carebear things (that, to be profitable, include the risk of being sunk by PVPers), but also often go out for some OS PVP.

Its nice to see someone who understands the MMORPG style games. Far too many people who lobby on the forums for content have never played a single hour on a successful MMORPG. My suggest does not take away form PVE at even the slightest. It only adds more content to PVP and makes access to PVE content easier for those who do not wish to PVE. 

PVE player still have the option to grind for the skill books while PVP players have the option of paying PVE players to make copies of books they have already learned preventing them from having to engage in the PVE they so hateful despise. 

Personally I hate the PVE grind but I also understand for this game to succeed there has to be a strong PVE and PVP presence for any server to survive.

[sounthernrebel78]

On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 9:44 AM, Niels Terkildsen said:

OP: You definitely have a point with the book drops. It's quite clear, in general also, that grinding NPCs with your SoL gives you so much more than trying to go out and look for PvP in a 5th or 6th rate for example; most of the time you end up with nothing to show for your effort. I suppose another solution could be to simply make RNG-drop books available for PvP marks.

EDIT: And in the meantime make non-RNG-drop items that are now only available for PvP-marks, available through either Combat marks or RNG-drops... And only have cosmetics items exclusively available for PvP marks.

I have another post about cosmetics you should check it out. 

[sounthernrebel78]

For everyone attempting to derail this suggestion on how to promote more players to PVP needs to remove them selves from the discussion. I have seen far to many Great suggestion that would help bring more players into the game that have gotten lost due to the few "lobbyist" who do not understand MMORGS and their need for both PVP and PVE players. This games has a strong PVE player base but is lacking in PVP players. To solve this problem we need to make PVP more inviting and more rewarding. Any attempt to remove PVE content will not help the game but only drive players away and end up killing the game which is not want anyone wants. 

As a player base in a developing game we have to help the devs create a game for everyone that is fun and rewarding to play. IF we attempt to create a game that appeals to only a very small portion of the player game then we will never see this game to release. The devs created NA legends to appeal strictly to the PVP players. As I bought this game for both the PVP and the PVE aspects I have no interest in playing Legends. Any suggest I make for this game is to help the game develop and bring in more players. The more players we bring the better the game will be. 

THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IN HELPING THE GAME IS TO STOP THE TOXIC BEHAVIOR. Far to many players have left the game due to the few people who are incredibly toxic. If you have no clue what I am talking about the you may be part of the problem. If you offended by the sentence before this one then you are the problem. 

Now everyone please stay on topic. WHICH IS allowing PVP marks to be use to make copies of skill books already learned.