Promoting more PVP

[sounthernrebel78]

I have a two simply suggestions to promote PVP over AI grinding. 

 

1. We allow PVP marks to be converted to combat marks at a rate of 50:1 ratio or something similar.   *retracted*

 

2. Allow PVP marks to be used to by a "blank skill book" that when it is used will great a drop down list of all owned skill books allowing you to create a copy of any book you have learned.

This will promote people to go out and earn PVP marks to either pay someone to convert a book to convert a book they already own instead of grinding AI fleets in hopes the book drops.  I have suggestion on how much to make this item cost but it would be a great incentive for PVP besides the few upgrades and ship notes currently offered.  People spend for too many hours grinding AI fleets and missions trying to find rare books that could be copied and sold. 

 

Edited November 16, 2017 by sounthernrebel78

[Liq]

nvm

Edited November 16, 2017 by Liq

[George Washington]

Promote pve and it will promote pvp. Simple as that. You can't force people to go pvp and loose shi* that takes weeks to farm from fleets. Logic?

Edited November 16, 2017 by George Washington

[Landsman]

38 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Promote pve and it will promote pvp.

Yeah, flawless logic right there... get the hello kitty outta here dude. 

[Lord Gud]

50 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Promote pve and it will promote pvp. Simple as that. You can't force people to go pvp and loose shi* that takes weeks to farm from fleets. Logic?

I somewhat agree with this because there needs to be more locations for PvE players to have a chance to gain something and PvP players can go and try to hunt. Such as a fleet of AI Traders being protected by convoy ships such as the Wapen Von Hamburg (It was a convoy ship) and other ships. Multiple locations could be marked on the map of where the AI fleet are and PvE players will go alone or with friends to try to obtain some type of loot (PAINTS I NEED THEM PLS). Making things easier to get though is not going to promote PvP but only make the game boring after everything is obtained easily.

Edited November 16, 2017 by Lord Gud

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, sounthernrebel78 said:

This will promote people to go out and earn PVP marks

unfortunately via gankfest, which isn't really something to promote. 

[sounthernrebel78]

7 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

unfortunately via gankfest, which isn't really something to promote. 

The only way to get rid of ganking is to have more people on all side out pvping which you reasons for them to go do that.

[Liq]

ops

[sounthernrebel78]

allowing combat marks to be converted to PVP marks doesn't promote PVP. Using PVP mark to get combat marks means you still have to PVP to be able to convert.

 

[Christendom]

PVP doesn't need to be promoted.  Giving PVE players a reason to leave capital areas does.  Happy sheep, happy wolves.  PVP marks is a lazy feature.

Admin has addressed this somewhat with the increased drop rate by AI ships and epic events, but given how late it was introduced...not many people need all the mods anymore.  Now if the new PVP mods and ship notes dropped from AI ships or epic events....that would get folks out there sailing around.  Or create a special type of AI that has no clear pattern and randomly appears at places and people need to hunt it.  

Another thought would be to limit what resources are found in safe zones.  Aka not everything you need to make all the ships.  

There's a litany of good ideas on the forums.  They just need to be worked in.

[z4ys]

2 hours ago, sounthernrebel78 said:

I have a two simply suggestions to promote PVP over AI grinding. 

 

1. We allow PVP marks to be converted to combat marks at a rate of 50:1 ratio or something similar.

 

 

no you already get pve and pvp marks while doing pvp. why double reward?

[sounthernrebel78]

5 minutes ago, z4ys said:

no you already get pve and pvp marks while doing pvp. why double reward?

I was unaware of that. 

[Raf Van Boom]

Less uber lewt - it takes a long time to get the refits you want, at least for me, I'm a new player.  Losing a ship means grinding PVE for hours.

While on this topic - why the horrendous book grind? After playing for 2 months I get fireships 4-5 book, yay me, at this rate I may have other skills I desire in the next 20 years.

[Landsman]

3 hours ago, boom said:

Less uber lewt - it takes a long time to get the refits you want, at least for me, I'm a new player.  Losing a ship means grinding PVE for hours.

While on this topic - why the horrendous book grind? After playing for 2 months I get fireships 4-5 book, yay me, at this rate I may have other skills I desire in the next 20 years

Ships are super cheap to come by, especially if you play with a clan and work together with them... the book and upgrade grind on the other hand is kind of cancer for casuals so i understand where you are coming from but the long term players / hardcore crowd doesn't give 2 shits about it sadly... 

[victor]

12 hours ago, Otto Kohl said:

Nah, he just undestands how PVP works in MMORPG games (which are not MOBAs).

[Landsman]

7 minutes ago, victor said:

Nah, he just undestands how PVP works in MMORPG games

Doesn't really seem like he does to be honest... 

[Cmdr RideZ]

11 hours ago, sounthernrebel78 said:

The only way to get rid of ganking is to have more people on all side out pvping which you reasons for them to go do that.

They could give Signaling Perk like feature for everyone.  Someone ganks you, you can always ask help from nation chat.  Does not take ganking away, but helps to organize good battles.

...

Gear should be less important than it is now, bonuses should be smaller.

If ship knowledge is removed, less PvE is needed before players can start playing PvP.

Players should have good access to all mods, books and ships.  More time people waste building their ships, less time they have for PvP.

We have PvE economy and we cry there is not enough PvP.  We play mostly PvE to get gear to do PvP.

We give PvP gear advantage for players who play more PvE.

Full loot system where you only lose ships in PvP.  New players probably lose a ship in almost every PvP fight.  Which after they have to grind PvE.

We have special group of people who want massive PvE grind to get ships.  We have players who want rare "things" that only most hard core PvE grinders can get.

We want plenty of PvP, we provide plenty of PvE.

We have gank OW, time sink to look for people, time sink to chase or be chased.  When we finally find that really nice and even and good PvP battle, we are really happy (Ultra rare tho).  Good PvP battle indeed, that none is ready to take as they don't want to risk losing their ship.

At some point devs removed gold from damage, making the game to depend even more on PvE economy.

...

What if your enemy has book A and you sink and loot him, and you would have a good change to get some of his books?  Learn from your enemy.

...

PvP rewards has to be on level that it clearly decreases need to PvE.

Crafting, trading, missions should be more like an optional way to earn.  Good PvP players should be able to earn so much from PvP that they can simply buy everything they want.

Before it was slightly so that from PvP you were able to earn gold to buy it all, but the earn rate even in 2016 was not high enough.

...

Strong PvE economics, then planning to write steam that the main content is PvP.  The philosophy is good but the implementation is not.

[victor]

2 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Doesn't really seem like he does to be honest... 

TBH i think instead that a lot of OS PVPers do not understand the difference between a Multiplayer Onilne Battle Arena (MOBA) game and an open world PVP Massive Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game (MMORPG).

A MMORPG is not just a MOBA with a larger arena.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[Landsman]

7 minutes ago, victor said:

A MMORPG is not just a MOBA with a larger arena.

Just explain how promoting pve will promote pvp. Also he claims it takes weeks to farm ships and upgrades for pvp? Hello, it's raining gold? He's making excuses and spouts bullshit, only so we have even more PvE on the PvP server. PvP players don't want PvE content. They don't play PvE when they can't have PvP - they simply log out and don't play. Also every player that is playing PvE, can not be out in the OW looking for PvP at the same time. Can you see the problem here? 

[Cmdr RideZ]

In the end it can be that there is no need for PvP Marks.

If gold reward would be set so high for winning and also losing side, it might work even better.

Losing side has to have a decent gold reward as well that it encourages people to do PvP.  Risk/Reward has to be there for losing side as well.

If PvP players earn plenty of gold, they can buy everything.  Traders/Crafters/PvE players sell.  If gold reward is set too low, none can afford to buy ships from other players.  Player run economy does not work.  If gold reward is low, everyone has to trade/craft their own ships as they cannot afford to buy.

Devs decided to remove gold reward from damage at some point.  I really don't understand what they are thinking sometimes.

[Cmdr RideZ]

One more thing now that I got started...

In Naval Action we think that economy is fueling war efforts.  In real life, did you know that this is the opposite?

When government says that we buy all tanks you can produce -> War fuels economy.

The economy is built and created because someone is buying it all.  When government is buying everything but there is not enough companies to sell them, then we can talk a bit like industry fuels war.  Initially still the government funds the economy, war funds the economy.  We all know that war is a business, right?

...

A good PvP player buys a ship from a bad PvP player.  With this money bad PvP player is able to craft 3 ships more.  He sinks twice and sells his last ship for another PvP player.  He crafts 3 ships, etc.

This system would be good as it creates that player driven economy devs are so after.  It would keep new players or not so skillful in the game.  In the end we might not need CM nor PvPMark ships at all, as are in itself decreasing player driven economy.

[victor]

1 hour ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

One more thing now that I got started...

In Naval Action we think that economy is fueling war efforts.  In real life, did you know that this is the opposite?

When government says that we buy all tanks you can produce -> War fuels economy.

The economy is built and created because someone is buying it all.  When government is buying everything but there is not enough companies to sell them, then we can talk a bit like industry fuels war.  Initially still the government funds the economy, war funds the economy.  We all know that war is a business, right?

...

A good PvP player buys a ship from a bad PvP player.  With this money bad PvP player is able to craft 3 ships more.  He sinks twice and sells his last ship for another PvP player.  He crafts 3 ships, etc.

This system would be good as it creates that player driven economy devs are so after.  It would keep new players or not so skillful in the game.  In the end we might not need CM nor PvPMark ships at all, as are in itself decreasing player driven economy.

That is true until a PVP player cannot craft himself goods as good as any other player. In naval action any PVP player can self-craft 5th and 4th rate ships (and now, with note bought through marks, even easier) as well as cannons and the most important upgrades needed for his gameplay. So basically PVPers do not NEED to buy from dedicated crafters.

If PVP dedicated players couldn't craft anything, then PVP will actually fuel economy.

You say it's impossible? It is not: let's suppose that each time you kill someone in PVP you get your marks and gold but you will not be able to craft for a certain amount of time o let's suppose that the more kills you get in a week, the more labor hours you need to craft anything.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[victor]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

Just explain how promoting pve will promote pvp. Also he claims it takes weeks to farm ships and upgrades for pvp? Hello, it's raining gold? He's making excuses and spouts bullshit, only so we have even more PvE on the PvP server. PvP players don't want PvE content. They don't play PvE when they can't have PvP - they simply log out and don't play. Also every player that is playing PvE, can not be out in the OW looking for PvP at the same time. Can you see the problem here? 

More preys around, more predators around. Rather simple.

For the rest, I remind you that if PVP servers will actually had rules that induce all the PVErs to get away, you could wake up one morning in barely 100ish populated server (and I am being optimist). This is why Devs are not doing what the PVP crew asks. We tested this thing with the infamous "summer mega patch". It was a patch "all for PVPers" and, in a while, the population of the PVP servers sank to abismal levels (and therefore it was very difficult to find OS PVP).

What a lot of PVP oriented players seem not to understand is that in a MMORPG that includes both open world PVP and PVE content, there is not "just PVE" on one SIDE and "just PVP" on the other side, while there is a consistent part of PVE players (like me, in example) that usually run their carebear things (that, to be profitable, include the risk of being sunk by PVPers), but also often go out for some OS PVP.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor

[Cmdr RideZ]

1 minute ago, victor said:

If PVP dedicated players couldn't craft anything, then PVP will actually fuel economy.

Does not matter if they can, because they won't if they don't have to.

[victor]

5 minutes ago, Cmdr RideZ said:

Does not matter if they can, because they won't if they don't have to.

Well, last try on my side. It's not a matter of "if", but a matter of "at what price".

I am a ship crafter and dealer in PVP EU and I can confirm that the ONLY market that goes now with decent prices for crafters is the one of PVE ships (both for missions and fleeting).

If you try to sell a PVP specialized ship hull (let's say a teak/teak endy or a teak/white consti), either you sell it at low price or you do not sell at all. Not mentioning surprises that are so easy to craft that have almost no value.

Even worse for PB fitted ships.

This situation means that RvR and PVP players and clans self product their ships.

That is the problem: dedicated crafters (which are mostly PVE players) cannot be successful in PVP if they do not spend a lot of time and resources in doing it, PVP dedicated players may be successful in crafting with no effort at all because in clicking "craft" is implied no skill. So a "PVP crafter" actually has all the advantages and no downside.

Edited November 17, 2017 by victor