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PVP marks

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Please stop

Although all the recent changes to the game have been 100% fantastic, the PVP marks are a  bad idea. 

Go back to combat Mark only. Simply double the experience and double the combat marks for PVP. 

PVP marks discourage solo players and encourage farming with alts and Friends

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I thought it was interesting with the last time PvP Marks were around how poorly received they were, at least as time progressed.

come to the newest point of PvP Marks and I saw the refits and books and thought "damn those are so cool and...holy crap these things are incredibly powerful." I very much understand that you want to show "something" to people to prove or brag that you're better then others, and it's perfectly normal in sports. I just feel that to show something to brag about your achievements shouldn't then also give you yet another edge over folks who can't beat you.

take the Navy Refit for example: 3% speed bonus (unless it's changed) with no malus is quite literally 1.5-2 times better than most refits from combat marks or production. So now a player who PvPs and is successful at it gains an advantage that a player who doesn't PvP often, or loses a lot can never shorten that gap ( they can, but not in a reasonable time).

I think overall, again, PvP mark "rewards" as they are now is not the correct way to implement such a commodity.

Edited by Teutonic

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I think pvp marks should be good at providing a good source of income to all those pvp players. 

We all know that the amount of profit arent as good as doing pve.

So instead of increasing the gap in the performance between a pvp and a pve player in a fight due to upgrades, pvp marks (and victory marks) should be converted into cosmetics. Cosmetics that the pve oriented player will pay a lot.

Edited by Intrepido

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Solo players earn more PvP marks than fleets because you get 100% the rewards, while fleet split them. I tell you that from personal experience. I noticed also higher PvP activity after adding PvP marks. A simple question - PvE players get exclusive PvE loot like Copper Plating, books, mods etc., why PvP players cannot have their own exclusive loot?

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Learn how to PvP and stop worrying about what other people do as the Admins are finding people who farm PvP marks and punishing them. PvP marks make people who do NOT farm alts want to go an have a reason to PvP to gain books/ships/refits. 

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17 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

Learn how to PvP and stop worrying about what other people do as the Admins are finding people who farm PvP marks and punishing them. PvP marks make people who do NOT farm alts want to go an have a reason to PvP to gain books/ships/refits. 

The problem here is not learning to do pvp.

Pvp requires lot of time. You can see in youtube that some well-known pvp players like moscalb play sessions of 6 hours. 

Most people dont have 6 hours a day for playing a game.

Those pvp players get pvp marks that give them access to some upgrades that only increase the differences between dedicated and average players.

The hardcore player could sell their cosmetics stuff (obtained only with pvp marks) for enough money to get any desired upgrade/skillbook/ship. People miss a lot be able to customize their ships.

And probably, if cosmetics can only be obtained by doing pvp and rvr the pve player would jump more often out of the safe zones.

 

Edited by Intrepido

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2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The problem here is not learning to do pvp.

Pvp requires lot of time. You can see in youtube that some well-known pvp players like moscalb play sessions of 6 hours. 

Most people dont have 6 hours a day for playing a game.

Those pvp players get pvp marks that give them access to some upgrades that only increase the differences between dedicated and average players.

The hardcore player could sell their cosmetics stuff (obtained only with pvp marks) for enough money to get any desired upgrade/skillbook/ship. People miss a lot be able to customize their ships.

And probably, if cosmetics can only be obtained by doing pvp and rvr the pve player would jump more often out of the safe zones.

 

So dedicated players should not be able to get things because noobs don't have the time to play the game?

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9 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

So dedicated players should not be able to get things because noobs don't have the time to play the game?

You are mixing being a noob and not having several hours a day for doing a profitable hunting session.

And Im not saying that dedicated players get nothing.

Read again.

Edited by Intrepido

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Just now, Intrepido said:

You are mixing being a noob and not having several hours a day for doing a profitable hunting session.

 

Then that is a problem with finding PvP not PvP marks ;)

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if we have to have PVP marks, they need to be for cosmetic items only.  The ability to get premium items than can give RVR and PVP players and edge in battle encourages farming, ganking and just general abuse.  it was an issue last time, it's still one.  OR there needs to be a path to obtain these items without having to PVP.  The fact that there is a hull refit that you can obtain with marks that increases thickness (aka screws with RVR) just astonishes me.  It's bad enough that caulking can only be found in 1 port and it's absurdly expensive and you need an alt to get it AND its amazing for RVR ships. 

I mean if you want to introduce these items, put them in the deadmans chests and give those out for PVP zones, shipwrecks or RVR wins.  Put the new LGV note in there.  If your goal is to get more people out on the ocean, marks is not the way.  Make these random drops from AI fleets or something like that.  PVP marks is just so damn lazy and it creates so many issues.  Right now it's just a sit outside of port gank fest.

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26 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

So dedicated players should not be able to get things because noobs don't have the time to play the game?

dedicated players need noobs to hunt.  Happy noobs - happy everyone.  If I'm gonna get ganked by a super absurd LGV everytime I go out to do a trade run, I'm gonna stop doing them.  

Edited by Christendom

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17 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

Then that is a problem with finding PvP not PvP marks ;)

Lets set an easy example.

Most of the world have a spare time of 2 hours after or before dinner.

A pvp engagement could take between 30-90 minutes. In the best case you will have 2-3 pvp battles. You usually spend more time looking for targets than in battles.

Thats one day dedicated exclusively to pvp. But to support pvp, you also need to craft and probably do some missions to win money.

In my view, you need to much time to feel you have been doing useful in the game.

Thats probably one of the reasons only a few guys are known as good pvpers.

 

Edited by Intrepido

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Pvp marks are fine as implemented. 3 percent speed isn't going to make or break anything since you can pretty easily hit the cap with pve related mods. For once I can outfit my ships without doing pve or getting ripped off by pve players. Best thing the developers ever did was bring pvp marks and add the pvp store. You want the same stuff you gotta pvp, or buy the marks. Nothing in there is so overpowered it cannot be done another way. There are all kinds of ways to outfit your ships, leave the cookie cutters behind And try out new combos.

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2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

Lets set an easy example.

Most of the world have a spare time of 2 hours after or before dinner.

A pvp engagement could take between 30-90 minutes. In the best case you will have 2-3 pvp battles. You usually spend more time looking for targets than in battles.

Thats one day dedicated exclusively to pvp. But to support pvp, you also need to craft and probably do some missions to win money.

In my view, you need to much time to feel you have been doing useful in the game.

Thats probably one of the reasons only a few guys are known as good pvpers.

 

I pvp every day for the most part. Since I became a pirate, I spend most time pvping and very little building ships or farming gold. Also, the majority of battles last less than 30 minutes. Hunt around busy capitals, you will find action or it will find you. 

Ive lost 1 ship this month in pvp. I clicked another and had it outfitted ten minutes later. Sometimes I sail out in one ship, pvp in something I capture and sail back in something completely different. 

The nationals think that pvp costs money, and that it takes a long time. If they were more aggressive, I guarantee they would have better results. When I stopped giving a crap about making sure I had the best of the best ships and mods, and didn't care if I lost, I became 1000 times better pvper. Try it, it works.

I'd like to see pvp marks become no trade so that people who want the upgrade and ships should have to pvp to get them.

Edited by Malachy

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36 minutes ago, Malachy said:

I'd like to see pvp marks become no trade so that people who want the upgrade and ships should have to pvp to get them.

Agree but i still think the PvP reward upgrades should be the same as PvE but for PvP marks cosmetics like ship paints should be available exclusively...

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8 hours ago, Intrepido said:

I think pvp marks should be good at providing a good source of income to all those pvp players. 

We all know that the amount of profit arent as good as doing pve.

So instead of increasing the gap in the performance between a pvp and a pve player in a fight due to upgrades, pvp marks (and victory marks) should be converted into cosmetics. Cosmetics that the pve oriented player will pay a lot.

BRING BACK PAINTS......lol  They should put paint chest in the PvP rewards area. HOw much you bet the PvEers will pay out the arse for some  paints?  Would  make great trade deals.  I'll give you this paint you want really bad if you make me this or that ship or get me this mod you found PvEing.  Give us something to trade back with them cause right until PvP marks there wasn't anything we could trade as ll the fcontent was locked behind PvE.  Now that it's not folks are crying.  Prob mainly the PvEr's since it took a while to get this in place a lot of us PvPer's now been grinding missions instead of trading to unlock things and we aren't poor, but we still don't ahve anything other than gold to trade the hard core grinders.  Now we have things of worth to do that.  You want that OP mod, than trade for it.  

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36 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Agree but i still think the PvP reward upgrades should be the same as PvE but for PvP marks cosmetics like ship paints should be available exclusively...

Just like any other game, it's elite gear, you want elite gear your going to have to do the elite content or trade out your arse for it.

 

Oh and there are a lot of new dros. I got Hammocks LIght three time just now in a battle.  Those are perm mods not skill books that 15% extra crew with no hit to moral.  Stack that with he normal 20% hammocks ship knowledge and my Naigara now has over 200 Crew.....think about that folks it's still PvE content though.

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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50 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Just like any other game, it's elite gear, you want elite gear your going to have to do the elite content or trade out your arse for it.

The point being that PvP mark exclusive upgrades are bad when the marks are not tradable ( as Malachy suggested and i replied to ) but cosmetics are good because they don't give straight advantage over carebear scrubs...

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3 hours ago, Landsman said:

The point being that PvP mark exclusive upgrades are bad when the marks are not tradable ( as Malachy suggested and i replied to ) but cosmetics are good because they don't give straight advantage over carebear scrubs...

You don't trade for the marks, you trade for the goods. You want that nifty PvP gear you put a buy order up and maybe one of the PvPer's will fill it.  I swear some of you folks have never played an MMO before.  Go to any Auction House and look up the Legendary or Elite gears and see what they go for.  Some folks only run those missions to get those gears to sale them to folks willing to pay but not do the hard work. 

A carebear or scrubs is going to have a hard time fighting some one with a clue any way.  That carebear wants the good gear he's going have to take all that lovely money he gets for grinding PvE and pay for it.  That or one of them rare drops you only get from PvE grinding trade for Elite PvP gear.  What part of this ya'll can't figure otu. I mean hell I'm sitting on millions and the only thing holding me back is certain gear drops are only PvE so I have to pay for the, out my arse when I'm a PvPer/RvR and tired of the grind, but I go out and do what I need to pay for the items I want.  Simple done just make some money and buy the items or GO OUT AND PVP OR PVE AND GET THE MODS YOURSELF.  

Sorry we don't need any more lazy mods out there.  Not every one is going to get the best gear sitting in there safe zones.  They want it they have to either go out and do PvP or grind the crap out of there PvE to get something good to trade or pay the high price.  

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3 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I swear some of you folks have never played an MMO before. 

This is very true, many of us never had any interest in mmos, and not even a factor to measure any player in NA. :) although the brain work to see around the corner should be a fair point.

Onto the subjectm

I am adamant against "loose gear" - as in not integrated with the ship crafting, especially with the mark system. At the same time the marks should be bounded and not tradeable, if we have to have them, and only some rewards should be tradeable, such as permits and notes. Paints and pvp modules should be soulbound.

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16 hours ago, Sea Fox said:

Please stop

Although all the recent changes to the game have been 100% fantastic, the PVP marks are a  bad idea. 

Go back to combat Mark only. Simply double the experience and double the combat marks for PVP. 

PVP marks discourage solo players and encourage farming with alts and Friends

I am very glad that PvP marks were reintroduced into the game as they provide much needed motivation to seek PvP. On top of that, they encourage players to seek SOLO PvP due to assists giving much less PvP marks. If anything, PvP marks DISCOURAGE hunting with friends. Can they be farmed? Yes, but I will argue that less than 1% of the game population is farming alts for PvP marks and that should not be a reason to ruin a good thing for everyone.

This game needed PvP rewards badly, and I am glad that they have returned. On top of the PvP marks, I wish that the developers would bring back the "PvP zones" during low population hours on the server as it can be very hard to find PvP late at night. In fact, just about the only place to find PvP late at night is at nation capitols (areas that are supposed to be safe). I would rather hunt elsewhere, but it is almost impossible when there are only 80 people online. 

To me, this post sounds like a carebear who would rather get the elite upgrades from farming PvE missions instead of risking their own ship to get PvP marks. That alone is the best reason to keep the PvP marks in game. The PvP marks force people to leave their PvE bubble and to stay (not run away) when presented with PvP.

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14 hours ago, Capn Rocko said:

I am very glad that PvP marks were reintroduced into the game as they provide much needed motivation to seek PvP. On top of that, they encourage players to seek SOLO PvP due to assists giving much less PvP marks. If anything, PvP marks DISCOURAGE hunting with friends. Can they be farmed? Yes, but I will argue that less than 1% of the game population is farming alts for PvP marks and that should not be a reason to ruin a good thing for everyone.

This game needed PvP rewards badly, and I am glad that they have returned. On top of the PvP marks, I wish that the developers would bring back the "PvP zones" during low population hours on the server as it can be very hard to find PvP late at night. In fact, just about the only place to find PvP late at night is at nation capitols (areas that are supposed to be safe). I would rather hunt elsewhere, but it is almost impossible when there are only 80 people online. 

To me, this post sounds like a carebear who would rather get the elite upgrades from farming PvE missions instead of risking their own ship to get PvP marks. That alone is the best reason to keep the PvP marks in game. The PvP marks force people to leave their PvE bubble and to stay (not run away) when presented with PvP.

Better recall that 1% estimate.  Of the active players now, I bes that most of them have PvP'd themselves.  The reward is just too high.

Edited by IndianaGeoff

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53 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Better recall that 1% estimate.  Of the active players now, I bes that most of them have PvP'd themselves.  The reward is just too high.

Reward is good, but they are super easy to obtain legitimately. I have gotten 250 PvP marks so far and I do not even claim to be a great player. Many I know have gotten 3-4 times as many marks without having to farm anything. Sure, a few carebears in the corner of the map might farm marks, but its not affecting me one bit. If it becomes a serious problem, im sure the developers could check IPs on the PvP leaderboard every day... 

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The pvp rewards give me something to work for and eliminate boring grinding. I don't give a single shit about paint. I do like the mods and the fact I don't have to grind to set up a pvp ship or waste what little money I have being raped by pve players for upgrades.

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