Eliminate small ship griefing

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Now tell me please how a bellona is a boom and zoom fighter versus a suprise. I'm listening.

 

Nah, you will have to practice, practice, practice in that wind until you know the value of separation versus guns angles.

Plus we talking Snow, right ? Or are we suddenly changing to Surprise ?

I have a feeling I was right where this is leading

[Christendom]

11 minutes ago, Malachy said:

Actually they did, a lot especially large frigates like the Connie and the 74s

Frigates mostly.  74s would roam the channel and the med, but still relatively close to a home port.  

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

Suprise, snow aren't they all spitfires?

Nope. Snow is a Zero. Melts under the guns.

Anything else or are you going to keep sending rocks to kill flies ?

We don't mind. We appreciate the gifts.

[victor]

13 minutes ago, rediii said:

I dont sail a bf109

Bf109 is more like and endy I'd say, it is actually very fast but turns like a brick

[Hodo]

7 minutes ago, rediii said:

I dont sail a bf109

More like, dont sail a P-47 in a turn fight with a Bf-109G6.

11 minutes ago, Malachy said:

My premise has never changed. I've thrown out multiple ideas to eliminate the griefing. The shit ship captains of course are going to raise hell because they've enjoyed griefing larger ships for a long time now. No one wants to have to adapt to new mechanics. Well the rest of us don't want to be griefed by little ships either, so balance must be struck somewhere. The developers are working on ship rebalance as we speak, maybe they will be able to get some ideas to fix this aspect of the problem here in this thread. For the most part all I see from the 6th rate captains here is "don't take away my ability to pester other folks and force them to remain in a pointless battle for an hour and a half". The same argument goes to 6th rates. If you want to tag a bigger ship, sail alongside a bigger ship to allow you to engage them. You should be able to solo in virtually any ship with a relative ability to be able to bring a fight to conclusion in some form. When a battle lasts an hour and a half and I'm sailing away in a virtually intact 4th rate after being pestered by two snows for the entire time which have zero chance of forcing the fight to conclusion, there is a problem. @admin @Ink 

Avoided my comment about the Ganj-i-Sawai and Henry Every.

 

[Sella]

[victor]

17 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

A boom'n'zoomer should not enter a turn'n'burn fight. 

and a burn'n'boom vs a zoom'n'turn?

nevermind, just joking

[Hethwill]

Just now, victor said:

and a burn'n'boom vs a zoom'n'turn?

Don't you dare touch their ( now mine ) Wasa !!!! She is great as she is. 

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, rediii said:

lobby is too strong to actually debate griefing of small ships. A whole clan arguing for their small ships + several other guys saying everything is fine because they like the ships

We don't tag indefinitely, Sir. We attack once and finish the engagement, either by taking the prize or by retreating. Non stop Attack! with no chance to do anything is something we do not do. And that is indeed griefing.

So, is winning a combat griefing or is non stop tag griefing ? I'm lost now...

[Hodo]

The fact is the OP, screwed up his fight and is blaming the game for his loss.

If he had gained the weather gauge before the fight started, by either defensive tagging and going upwind, or turning to meet the tagger before the tag counter finished.  

He then continues to blame the game for his faults.  When sailing a ship capable of over 12knts down wind, being pursued by much smaller ships.  He fails to gain distance and turning to fire or slowing and forcing them to overshoot into his broadsides.

 

Fact is historically most SoLs had an unrated tender ship to follow them... usually a Brig or a Schooner. 

[victor]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

thats the wasa.

Both

so let's try the ultimate match:

on red corner .... the burn'n'boom'n'zoom'n'turn'n'whatnot ... the mighty Wasaaaaa!

on the blue corner ... the most terrifying ... mosq ... err .... ship ever saw in seas ... the incomprehensible power of the Snoooooow (The one Redii won, and firefailfitted by me)

Edited November 13, 2017 by victor

[PG Monkey]

5 minutes ago, rediii said:

lobby is too strong to actually debate griefing of small ships. A whole clan arguing for their small ships + several other guys saying everything is fine because they like the ships

Our whole clan is smaller than you're shallow water pb fleet

[Sella]

8 minutes ago, rediii said:

lobby is too strong to actually debate griefing of small ships. A whole clan arguing for their small ships + several other guys saying everything is fine because they like the ships

If i was lobbying for small ships i wouldnt want to change a thing. But you completely ignored that i have written that i consider the snows de/accelaration somewhat broken.

Now i can't change peoples mindset that you should expect to win every single engagement in a bigger ship, or that you shouldn't sail by yourself on a SoL and expect nothing bad to happen.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Sella22

[Corona Lisa]

Only problem I have with small ships is that they can keep tagging big ships from distance for the whole battle duration if they want with no chance for the bigger ship to leave the "battle", essentially keeping you hostage in the battle with no intention to fight.

But then again its not easy to fix

[Hethwill]

1 minute ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

But then again its not easy to fix

It is, of sorts. Raise the damage threshold for tag in instance.

Mechanic will be blind and affect everyone equally.

[Hodo]

Honestly the best fix for a lot of the SoLs would be give them something other than carronades in the stern.  If you let them mount 24lb long guns back there you would see LESS 6th rates sitting back at 700m trying to hit them with 4lb guns when a 24lb ball is being flung back at them.

[Hodo]

Just now, Intrepido said:

Fact is SoL didnt need those ships you mentioned to fight frigates.

 

There werent many actual engagements with a 3rd rate vs a 5th rate.   Thanks to the "gentlemen" agreement that generally kept that from happening.

[Hethwill]

Just now, Hodo said:

There werent many actual engagements with a 3rd rate vs a 5th rate.   Thanks to the "gentlemen" agreement that generally kept that from happening.

Navy agreements.

 

[Corona Lisa]

1 minute ago, The Red Duke said:

It is, of sorts. Raise the damage threshold for tag in instance.

Mechanic will be blind and affect everyone equally.

Dont think so, would ruin a lot of cases where people chase a ship and only slowly come closer.

It would be better if enemy needs to come close when you put your sails down or something like that.

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

We know how it is currently in the game, we know that a SoL shouldnt sail alone because of the current game mechanics. 

The thing is that it is stupid that one frigate have more chances to win than a SoL in a 1vs1. 

When I see in the ow a lonely wasa I give thanks for so easy prey, and that shouldnt hapoen.

Personally when I run into a known player in a wasa (while sailing in a surprise), I try to evade it, because a surprise does not stand a chance vs a decently played 4th rate / ship of the line, fact. Even more since you cannot perma-damage sails or crew anymore

[Malachy]

24 minutes ago, Hodo said:

More like, dont sail a P-47 in a turn fight with a Bf-109G6.

Avoided my comment about the Ganj-i-Sawai and Henry Every.

 

Neither are relevant. If I remember correctly those were cutting out expeditions where the 6th rates were acting as glorified troop ships. Besides we are talking small numbers here not 8 on 1. 2 to 3 snows would not have a prayer vs a large frigate like the Connie or anything bigger in open sea combat and you know it. I defy you to find an example where a snow or any 6th rate took out a 4th or third with 5 or less of them in open sea combAt. Cutting out expeditions don't count because we can't do it in game.

Edited November 13, 2017 by Malachy

[Hodo]

I dont like that the Snow is almost as fast as a Brig at it's best point of sail.   12.95 vs 13.00. 

The Snow should be a bit slower, because the Ontario (snow) was a lake ship, it was not an ocean ship, it would bob like a cork in the ocean due to its VERY round hull. 

 

[Hethwill]

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go said:

Dont think so, would ruin a lot of cases where people chase a ship and only slowly come closer.

It would be better if enemy needs to come close when you put your sails down or something like that.

Yeah, I see where the issue lies. 

[Sella]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

We know how it is currently in the game, we know that a SoL shouldnt sail alone because of the current game mechanics. 

The thing is that it is stupid that one frigate have more chances to win than a SoL in a 1vs1. 

When I see in the ow a lonely wasa I give thanks for so easy prey, and that shouldnt hapoen.

Just to clarify, when i say small ships i mean 6th-7th rates. Now with this out of the way, i can understand that kind of frustration but unfortunately i can't answer you that myself. Maybe more experienced captains like @Liq can offer more info/arguments/solutions about this.

[Hodo]

Just now, Malachy said:

Neither are relevant. If I remember correctly those were cutting out expeditions where the 6th rates were acting as glorified troop ships. Besides we are talking small numbers here not 8 on 1. 2 to 3 snows would not have a prayer vs a large frigate like the Connie or amyrhing bigger in open sea combat and you know it.

The Ganj-i-Sawai was a 80gun Ship of the Line.. while it was hauling troops it was still a SHIP OF THE LINE.   It still had 80 guns on it, and still had more firepower than ANY of the 3 ships attacking it combined. 

And you did not specify the terms of the engagement.    There were only 3 ships attacking it, the largest of them was a 6th rate, the other two were 7th rates... 48 men with 8 guns, a Lynx for comparison.