Advanced Economy

[George Washington]

Dear Developer,  

are there any plans in the future to rework and expand Econ? I would like to suggest couple of things that can help you improve what you started. 

Production

In game:

20 x Iron ore + 5 x Coal = 5 Iron ingot 

Proposed:

20 x Iron ore [Crushed/Refined] + 5 x Coal + 5 Limestone = 5 Iron ingot + Gravel [Waste]

Structures:

Iron Mine

Refinery

Coal Mine 

Limestone Mine

*Gravel can be used when building structures.  So, we need refinery, and smelter.

The raw materials used to produce pig iron in a blast furnace are iron ore, coke, sinter, and limestone. Iron ores are mainly iron oxides and include magnetite, hematite, limonite, and many other rocks. The iron content of these ores ranges from 70% down to 20% or less.

This concept could easily be used for all other resources. Structure slot expansion will be required. 

Right now economy feels too simple and boring. I really hope to see more content in this important field. 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Hodo]

If you get to complex it becomes a time sync that people wont want to do.

Right now the focus is on sailing and fighting, less about crafting. 

If this were Wurm Online, Life is Feudal, or Mortal Online, I would say sure... but all three of those games already have something like that in place.

[George Washington]

12 minutes ago, Hodo said:

If you get to complex it becomes a time sync that people wont want to do.

Right now the focus is on sailing and fighting, less about crafting. 

If this were Wurm Online, Life is Feudal, or Mortal Online, I would say sure... but all three of those games already have something like that in place.

Many Steam reviews point fingers and laugh at how simple and undeveloped NA econ is and I agree with them. It could be much better. Also, remember that not all enjoy just sailing and pvp. Some players enjoy econ and that is a big chunk of cash that NA can loose if they ignore them. We are hanging only on PvP population right now and should think how we can increase support from pve people. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Hodo]

Just now, George Washington said:

Many Steam reviews point fingers and laugh at how simple and undeveloped NA econ is and I agree with them. It could be much better. 

It could be better, but making the crafting more "grind" based isn't going to help.

Let us look at a successful economy in a game... Eve Online.  They have a pretty simplistic crafting system, Mine ore > Reprocess Ore > Refined goods > build ship.

We dont need mining in NA, and we have something like refining now.  I would like to see more building options for crafting.  And more contract options for other things... like shipping. 

 

[George Washington]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

It could be better, but making the crafting more "grind" based isn't going to help.

Let us look at a successful economy in a game... Eve Online.  They have a pretty simplistic crafting system, Mine ore > Reprocess Ore > Refined goods > build ship.

We dont need mining in NA, and we have something like refining now.  I would like to see more building options for crafting.  And more contract options for other things... like shipping. 

 

Mine ore > Reprocess Ore > Refined goods > build ship.

and what do we have? Mine -> Create ingot lol, you get my point? It should be more realistic. They made ships planks , structure , but completely ignored production chain. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Hodo]

Just now, George Washington said:

Mine ore > Reprocess Ore > Refined goods > build ship.

and what do we have? Mine -> Create ingot lol, you get my point? It should be more realistic. They made ships planks , structure , but completely ignored production chain. 

You do that now.

A Lynx is Frame parts, planks, ballast, provisions, small gun carriages, canvas rolls, cordage and oakum, ropes, and blocks.  

So yeah there is a lot of parts in a typical ship build currently in game.   The most unrealistic part is the fact we can crank one out in a matter of minutes, when in real life it took weeks to months to build some ships.

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Hodo said:

You do that now.

A Lynx is Frame parts, planks, ballast, provisions, small gun carriages, canvas rolls, cordage and oakum, ropes, and blocks.  

So yeah there is a lot of parts in a typical ship build currently in game.   The most unrealistic part is the fact we can crank one out in a matter of minutes, when in real life it took weeks to months to build some ships.

Quantity of parts is perfect, but production chain needs work as well as Market. Some parts of this game are on point and some were ignored. NA looks like this right now.

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Jean Ribault]

6 minutes ago, Hodo said:

If you get to complex it becomes a time sync that people wont want to do.

Right now the focus is on sailing and fighting, less about crafting. 

If this were Wurm Online, Life is Feudal, or Mortal Online, I would say sure... but all three of those games already have something like that in place.

 

What you are saying essentially is let's just accept what we have now, so the suggestion can't work.  But why shouldn't we be thinking outside the current box?  If we had career paths established for example, there actually would be captains who'd be interested in such detailed crafting as indicated in the OP.  We should have career path options or focus such as building tycoons for example, who have at their disposal more than just a 3 or 4-bldg spread with a shop and/or shipyard.  There should people who can establish an entire game out of this stuff.

That's what we would see as more content, whether it's pvp, or in this case pve to support pvp.

But if the focus is only on sailing and then fighting, sure you are right, it's just a grind to get there.  But as has been said so many times on this forum, this game has so much more potential.  Why can't careers like this be established?  People actually are interested in such things.  I know I am.  Trying not to oversimplify, but you would just need to pair such a suggestion with an AI-assisted economy that picks up where the player populations make it somewhat deficient.

[jodgi]

31 minutes ago, George Washington said:

We are hanging only on PvP population right now

Lol! I wish...

😞

[Teutonic]

I'd only like this is everyone could have more buildings.

and extracting resources from said buildings did not use labor hours, only gold.

...otherwise currently I don't think it's simple, I think the resource extraction is trash due to needing both Labor AND gold AND then only have a limit of 5 buildings.

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

I'd only like this is everyone could have more buildings.

and extracting resources from said buildings did not use labor hours, only gold.

...otherwise currently I don't think it's simple, I think the resource extraction is trash due to needing both Labor AND gold AND then only have a limit of 5 buildings.

Labor is really stupid right now. It needs to double at least. I don't know why, but all this econ right now feels like a small ball got stuffed inside even smaller box and all that has been scaled down to even smaller dimensions. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Darayavahus]

There should be more to OW than it is now, every additional activity would be nice...

[Hodo]

19 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Quantity of parts is perfect, but production chain needs work as well as Market. Some parts of this game are on point and some were ignored. NA looks like this right now.

I think what would help with this is an increase in the spread of what can be built and where.  But with an increase in the number of outposts and buildings per player.   Right now it is VERY limiting for a solo or even a small clan player to do anything craft oriented.  I dont think a solo player should be able to do everything by themselves without buying things off of other players or the market, but there does need to be an increase of building slots and outposts to players.

The idea of making woods regional was a step in the right direction but then it kind of died there. 

Major port towns should be the only ones able to build level 3 shipyards, and gun foundries.   While other ports should have level caps on buildings based on the importance of that port.   This would create conflict zones as people WANT those ports for their value. 

Capital ports should not be able to have everything in them, to force players to get out of the safety of the capital area. 

 

[George Washington]

One guy wrote to a potential customer:

Is NA similar to EvE? 

Reply: worse. Way less content, way less detailed (ports etc), way worse economy, and PvP is dying and/or usually pointless.
Wouldn't recommend buying it with the expectation of it being anything like EVE.

Why NA can't even match EvE? Even Tempest: pirate action sits on 1st page of top sellers with 72/72(NA 57/66).

This is once again confirms what happens if you ignore PvE content. 

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Hodo]

Just now, George Washington said:

Why NA can't even match EvE? Even Tempest: pirate action sits on 1st page of top sellers. 

That answer is easy....

Simplicity. 

NA it takes an hour to sail most places to find a fight.  The fighting is usually LONG and drawn out, my average fight can last 20-40min.   Then you have the slow pace of the fighting... and lack of any other ambient sounds while sailing in OW.   No music, nothing other than the wind and occasional seagulls when you are near shore.   NA is pretty damned boring in OW.

I often have EVE online running in the background while on long sails or I am playing Candy Crush on my phone while sailing.   And almost always have Youtube or Eve-Radio on in the background for music. 

 

Tempest is a simple game and finding fights is easy.  Not a lot of brainpower goes into games like that.  This is why games like that are so attractive. 

[Anne Wildcat]

I really really really just don't want complex crafting like (recent) POTBS where with three accounts, that's 30 structures if you pay for it, which I did, it still takes 4 days to build a frigate. I got burnt out on POTBS crafting. 

[jodgi]

4 minutes ago, George Washington said:

and PvP is dying and/or usually pointless.

 

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

We are hanging only on PvP population right now

See? People are over the place.

___________

I'm glad NA is not like EVE. They have massive amounts of mind numbing PVE and eco boredom and so shitty fighting mechanics I giggle at them calling it PVP.

I could leave PVE guys alone but they won't leave me alone. You have to partake in PVE to get certain upgrades and they complain when fighters are given ships for marks. Somehow their fun doesn't make sense unless everyone is force fed their way of playing. 

[Anne Wildcat]

The more complex you make crafting, the more it's going to spur alt accounts.  Most dedicated crafters in POTBS had 10+ accounts.  NA already has an issue with alts, please don't fuel the need for more.  I'm all for more crafting lines, maybe craftable trade goods, but don't make crafting any one thing more conplex or require more stages. 

[George Washington]

51 minutes ago, Anne Wildcat said:

I really really really just don't want complex crafting like (recent) POTBS where with three accounts, that's 30 structures if you pay for it, which I did, it still takes 4 days to build a frigate. I got burnt out on POTBS crafting. 

it takes 4 accounts in NA to function properly anyway.

Edited November 10, 2017 by George Washington

[Hethwill]

21 minutes ago, George Washington said:

it takes 4 accounts in NA to function properly anyway.

This statement is not fact. It is a opinion based upon individual player expectations. Many many players do function properly with one single account.

We can debate merits of your statement, which has a lot of it, but is not true for everyone.

[Archaos]

The topic title is advanced economy but what the OP talks about is advanced crafting. 

I think the crafting is okay as it is as you need many parts to make the ship you want, if it was any more advanced then you would need more storage space for all the additional materials.

What the game really needs is an advanced economy that creates a relevant supply and demand for goods and services. We should not be hauling goods round the world just because the NPC is buying at a higher price, these goods we haul around should have some effect on the world. I have suggested before that ports should require various trade goods for their upkeep weekly, that would generate a demand for goods that players could supply, that in turn means more traders on the seas and more targets for raiders.

I was doing a trade run yesterday and I got intercepted by a pirate, I had 3 trader ships so I sent my fleet ships to escape and I headed in the opposite direction knowing that the pirate would likely follow me. My fleet escaped and I got captured, so I lost 1/3 of my cargo, the remaining cargo more than covered my loss so there was no real consequence to getting caught. The cargo has to mean more than just profit for there to be a meaningful economy. That cargo should have been required somewhere, so its loss would mean another run had to be done to make up the shortfall.

For an advanced economy they have to create supply and demand, not just make things more of a grind.

[Quineloe]

with tiny warehouse and only 5 building slots I strongly disagree with the entire proposal.

 

The proposal does not improve crafting / econ gameplay in any way. It does not address the key issues it has right now in any way - labor hours gone after 5 minutes of gameplay, game over for the day.

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, Archaos said:

I was doing a trade run yesterday and I got intercepted by a pirate, I had 3 trader ships so I sent my fleet ships to escape and I headed in the opposite direction knowing that the pirate would likely follow me. My fleet escaped and I got captured, so I lost 1/3 of my cargo, the remaining cargo more than covered my loss so there was no real consequence to getting caught. The cargo has to mean more than just profit for there to be a meaningful economy. That cargo should have been required somewhere, so its loss would mean another run had to be done to make up the shortfall.

For an advanced economy they have to create supply and demand, not just make things more of a grind.

That was a bad pirate... I always go after the NPC ships... because I can catch the player again in the OW.  LOL

[Landsman]

8 hours ago, George Washington said:

not all enjoy just sailing and pvp

Then why are you playing this game? It's called Naval Action and not Naval Crafting for a reason... If anything, this should be on the PvE server but never on PvP.

[Capn Rocko]

I know a few people who choose not to play this game because combat is the sole focus. They are more interested in economy and crafting aspects of MMOs. I think improving these areas of the game would bring more players to the game and would keep people interested in NA longer, but I do not think it would do much to appease the current player base.