Pirate Mechanics

[Vile Executioner]

With the recent removal of the outlaw battles, I can see why developers decided to remove it. I can’t blame them. However I have a suggestion. The best part of being a pirate is the freedom to do whatever you want. I liked the ability to have rival pirate gangs and the ability to keep pirates away from a place you are hunting at by killing them in an outlaw battle, such as marking your territory and keeping the hunting ground under your control. Why not bring clan vs clan battles under pirates? Where it can be only 1 clan vs another clan outside the pirates reinforcement zone. Say I am a pirate and I wanted to hunt and establish my pirate raiding zone in the french territory and I operate out of aves and I discover in combat news that there is another pirate hunting in the waters taking my potential targets from me, then the hunt is on. The hunter becomes the hunted and I could rally up my clan to fight this other clan raiding in the area we claimed as ours. 

 

Would make things interesting and would allow tests on clan wars like what was brought up before. Just a suggestion, give it some thought, let’s hear everyone’s  opinions 😀

Edited November 4, 2017 by Vile Executioner

[Zoky]

French waters belong to me ME 

[Vile Executioner]

33 minutes ago, Zoky said:

French waters belong to me ME 

I’m the king of the castle your the dirty... 😜

 

I’d love to see this involved in game...

[Cabral]

2 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

I’m the king of the castle your the dirty... 😜

 

I’d love to see this involved in game...

 You shouldn't use the word "king", in the past left a bad taste in your mouth 

[Rigge1988]

First of all I would like to see the pirate mechanic entirely remade.

In my opinion pirates should operate from the hidden island(s). They should not be able to conquer ports. But they could do port battles. But their port battles should not be about conquering. Their port battles should be about raiding the harbour.

Say each harbour have a treasury which the pirates then would take if they win the port battle.

It should work for non-capturable. But only for pirates.

This would also make use of the hidden taxes that the AI just buy liquor from.

 

So. Pirates operate from the secret harbours (which are uncapturable). They cannot conquer ports but they can instead raid them to steal all the money in the  treasury. Along with random loot which grade is based upon the size of the treasury. For example Cartagena de indias would be a quite interesting target for pirates. Not to mention capitals.

Pirates  can still operate from free and/or neutral ports.

 

Ofc that along with the suggested changes from the OP would in my world make pirates really interesting.

Not that same problem we've had since day one with pirates being just another nation. But something that allow pirates to be more like pirates.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Rigge1988

[Lord Gud]

8 minutes ago, Rigge1988 said:

First of all I would like to see the pirate mechanic entirely remade.

In my opinion pirates should operate from the hidden island(s). They should not be able to conquer ports. But they could do port battles. But their port battles should not be about conquering. Their port battles should be about raiding the harbour.

Say each harbour have a treasury which the pirates then would take if they win the port battle.

It should work for non-capturable. But only for pirates.

This would also make use of the hidden taxes that the AI just buy liquor from.

 

So. Pirates operate from the secret harbours (which are uncapturable). They cannot conquer ports but they can instead raid them to steal all the money in the  treasury. Along with random loot which grade is based upon the size of the treasury. For example Cartagena de indias would be a quite interesting target for pirates. Not to mention capitals.

Pirates  can still operate from free and/or neutral ports.

 

Ofc that along with the suggested changes from the OP would in my world make pirates really interesting.

Not that same problem we've had since day one with pirates being just another nation. But something that allow pirates to be more like pirates.

Most of this is a good idea as me being pirate I don't like the idea of capturing ports. There should be a port battle type system where you can raid for gold/resources/etc. For where starting location is and how ports work I am not entirely sure how this should be since new players will join no matter what and figure out "this is too hard" and just quit the game. It should be moderately simple.

[Vile Executioner]

4 hours ago, Cabral said:

 You shouldn't use the word "king", in the past left a bad taste in your mouth 

I can openly challenge you to a 1 on 1 and let you call me king so I don’t sink you how does that sound? 😜

[Guest]

Well I'd like to see the pirate faction remade into something a lot more realistic and along the lines of the hardcore gameplay that the "black" should be about.

 - No RvR. Pirates never conquered a port and there has never been anything called a "pirate nation". And no - the so-called "pirate republic" out of Nassau was not a republic, and it was most certainly not a state. Let the pirate nation die. No ports, no hideouts, nothing.

 - the ability to hoist any nations flag (but not tag that nation for a limited time after hoisting that nations colours and it can't be done for a limited time after capturing/sinking one of that nations ships) and go into any nations port with a warship.

 - No SoL. In fact no ships above 5th rate. Pirates never sailed ship of the lines, even if they had been able to drum up the manpower required they'd simply lack the infrastructure to outfit, maintain and restock a SoL - same goes for large frigates. Pirates sailed small ships (unrated vessels, ingame 6th-7th rates) and very rarely 5th rates (normally privateers turned pirates, like William Kidd) so let's see them revert to that state. 

 - Bring back the outlaw battles - only hardcore players should be playing pirates.

 - raids, but not limited to pirates, since raiding was a common practice by warfarring nations both at land and sea. So generally... Get the raid mechanic done.

 - more flag options for the pirates.

 

 - A carribean wide bountyboard, to be payed upon the delivery of the infamous pirates head to an official stateclerk in each factions capital (except the cartoon nations that doesn't belong in the carribean historically).

[Lord Gud]

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

Well I'd like to see the pirate faction remade into something a lot more realistic and along the lines of the hardcore gameplay that the "black" should be about.

 - No RvR. Pirates never conquered a port and there has never been anything called a "pirate nation". And no - the so-called "pirate republic" out of Nassau was not a republic, and it was most certainly not a state. Let the pirate nation die. No ports, no hideouts, nothing.

 - the ability to hoist any nations flag (but not tag that nation for a limited time after hoisting that nations colours and it can't be done for a limited time after capturing/sinking one of that nations ships) and go into any nations port with a warship.

 - No SoL. In fact no ships above 5th rate. Pirates never sailed ship of the lines, even if they had been able to drum up the manpower required they'd simply lack the infrastructure to outfit, maintain and restock a SoL - same goes for large frigates. Pirates sailed small ships (unrated vessels, ingame 6th-7th rates) and very rarely 5th rates (normally privateers turned pirates, like William Kidd) so let's see them revert to that state. 

 - Bring back the outlaw battles - only hardcore players should be playing pirates.

 - raids, but not limited to pirates, since raiding was a common practice by warfarring nations both at land and sea. So generally... Get the raid mechanic done.

 - more flag options for the pirates.

 

 - A carribean wide bountyboard, to be payed upon the delivery of the infamous pirates head to an official stateclerk in each factions capital (except the cartoon nations that doesn't belong in the carribean historically).

Not able to sail SoL = less content 

[Sven Silberbart]

I would guess a very big part of the playerbase wish to see the pirate mechanic as something special. I favour the way @Bearwall posted. But i also saw all over the time that @admin always ignored such a wish and i can't remember to read a reason for that. As much as I would like see the pirate nation replayed with a real pirate gameplay, I lost every hope for that in the past. :-(

[Cabral]

5 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

I can openly challenge you to a 1 on 1 and let you call me king so I don’t sink you how does that sound? 😜

Lol, you shouldn't let Black Sails go over your head, Flint didn't had a good end either.

[Zoky]

1 hour ago, Cabral said:

6 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

 

Lol, you shouldn't let Black Sails go over your head, Flint didn't had a good end either.

What? Flint did super great considering carebears he had to deal with. He was backstabed almost every episode! #JusticeForFlint

[Vile Executioner]

4 hours ago, Cabral said:

Lol, you shouldn't let Black Sails go over your head, Flint didn't had a good end either.

I challenge you to pvp and you bring up an unrelated tv show. Carebears always have the best funniest excuses 😆

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Lord Gud said:

Not able to sail SoL = less content 

= real pirate mechanic

[Lord Gud]

6 hours ago, Bearwall said:

= real pirate mechanic

Since certain nations never sailed certain ships does that mean only US can sail constitution french can only sail L'Ocean and Spanish can sail Santisima? It's a game not real life and certain realistic mechanics would make the game boring.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Lord Gud said:

Since certain nations never sailed certain ships does that mean only US can sail constitution french can only sail L'Ocean and Spanish can sail Santisima? It's a game not real life and certain realistic mechanics would make the game boring.

Pirates are not a nation - hence not comparable to a nation. You ask for pirate mechanics and I suggest some that would make pirates distinct from the rest of the nations. Or is it that you merely want pirates to be buffed nations?

[Lz3]

Pirates should be able to crew ships of the line in this case. You see, if they lack any ports they cannot have the infrastructure to craft these ships very easily. Pirates will be harshly limited to buying them in ports which historically pirates COULD do (not saying they are a pirate) although they probably had no reason to buy a larger ship and probably never did.

[Kawazz]

On 11/4/2017 at 3:02 PM, Vile Executioner said:

 I liked the ability to have rival pirate gangs and the ability to keep pirates away from a place you are hunting at by killing them in an outlaw battle, such as marking your territory and keeping the hunting ground under your control. Why not bring clan vs clan battles under pirates? Where it can be only 1 clan vs another clan outside the pirates reinforcement zone. 

This never happened though. A majority of us work together its better off as a nation.

[Hodo]

On 11/5/2017 at 12:57 AM, Bearwall said:

Well I'd like to see the pirate faction remade into something a lot more realistic and along the lines of the hardcore gameplay that the "black" should be about.

 - No RvR. Pirates never conquered a port and there has never been anything called a "pirate nation". And no - the so-called "pirate republic" out of Nassau was not a republic, and it was most certainly not a state. Let the pirate nation die. No ports, no hideouts, nothing.

 - the ability to hoist any nations flag (but not tag that nation for a limited time after hoisting that nations colours and it can't be done for a limited time after capturing/sinking one of that nations ships) and go into any nations port with a warship.

 - No SoL. In fact no ships above 5th rate. Pirates never sailed ship of the lines, even if they had been able to drum up the manpower required they'd simply lack the infrastructure to outfit, maintain and restock a SoL - same goes for large frigates. Pirates sailed small ships (unrated vessels, ingame 6th-7th rates) and very rarely 5th rates (normally privateers turned pirates, like William Kidd) so let's see them revert to that state. 

 - Bring back the outlaw battles - only hardcore players should be playing pirates.

 - raids, but not limited to pirates, since raiding was a common practice by warfarring nations both at land and sea. So generally... Get the raid mechanic done.

 - more flag options for the pirates.

 

 - A carribean wide bountyboard, to be payed upon the delivery of the infamous pirates head to an official stateclerk in each factions capital (except the cartoon nations that doesn't belong in the carribean historically).

I dont agree with Bearwall on much but we agree on all of these mechanics. 

I have a pirate on PVP-Light (AKA EU) and I have operated under strict rules... no ships over 5th rate, I have one outpost in MT.  I only use ships I can buy or steal off of the market or on the open sea. 

I have actually been enjoying sailing around in a regular brig.   Decent ship when built right, not great but can do a bit of everything.  

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Lz3 said:

Pirates should be able to crew ships of the line in this case. You see, if they lack any ports they cannot have the infrastructure to craft these ships very easily. Pirates will be harshly limited to buying them in ports which historically pirates COULD do (not saying they are a pirate) although they probably had no reason to buy a larger ship and probably never did.

lol Pirates COULD NOT buy first rates or any other rated ships in ports or at the warfs. The manufacture and MAINTENANCE of ship of the lines were very costly, and demanded high expertise not readily available on the markets. The infrastructure to supply a first rate is not just in the building of the ship but in the resupply of ropes (needs constant resupply), tar, gunpowder (a highly regulated market and pirates were never able to purchase quantities to actually be able to resupply a rated ship with the quantities needed for a full compliment of cannons) and crews needed pay, food and medicine - and that would be assuming that any pirate could muster the numbers actually needed for a rated ship (which no pirate ever could).

 

To me it sounds like you want a pirate faction with both a special pirate mechanic and national gameplay mechanics as well. I call that just whishing for a buffed nation. The pirates should be something uncomparable to a nation and if ppl want national gameplay - there's 7 historical nations ingame and 3 ahistorical cartoon nations to play. 

[Landsman]

On 5.11.2017 at 4:21 PM, Bearwall said:

real pirate mechanic

The pirates need some perks and traits to compensate tho... i like the pirates being hardcore but also offer something unique that the other nations can't have. Whenever i see someone saying pirates should be hardcore and realistic it's some national that doesn't suggest some interesting unique mechanic exclusive to pirates to compensate for all the nerfs. Pirates didn't sail SOLs  ( and i don't like them doing so in game ) but most nationals didn't ever sail one either. Just looking at how many victories, L'Oceans and Santissima we have in game and the realism argument is out of the window along with endless ship and crew repairs. Realistically 90% of players should be playing sloops, brigs or small frigates and never own or command a bigger ship. Firstly the SOLs were much more expensive and limited ( obviously ) and secondly most captains preferred commanding a frigate - commanding a good frigate was like living the dream. Even if captains were offered to command a SOL, many declined it and stayed on frigates.

[Vile Executioner]

2 hours ago, koiz said:

This never happened though. A majority of us work together its better off as a nation.

In what server? 🤔 we in Europe had the entire pirate nation cut down to 50% at one point

[Hethwill]

29 minutes ago, Landsman said:

i like the pirates being hardcore but also offer something unique that the other nations can't have.

Overarming ships ( one class diff ) plus free crew pool ( according to values plundered in PvP, the more plunder the more crew readily available, less meaning less crew available ) ?

Edit: while having the basic infrastructure only ( at any port ) and paying double the value for LH. 

[Hodo]

59 minutes ago, Landsman said:

 Firstly the SOLs were much more expensive and limited ( obviously ) and secondly most captains preferred commanding a frigate - commanding a good frigate was like living the dream. Even if captains were offered to command a SOL, many declined it and stayed on frigates.

This is fact.

The reason for this is most frigate captains were able to make more money in their hunting exploits and had far more leeway when carrying out their orders.

Some great recorded examples of how much money these captains would make off of successful voyages.  In one case a captain after taxes and ship fees were taken out, he and his crew made enough money off of prizes to pay every man on the ship 10 years pay.   This was a 6 month voyage.  

Being a Frigate captain back then was like being a fighter pilot now.  You were the rock star of the naval military.  

There was very little chance at that kind of money or glory as a line ship commander.  Perhaps a 4th rate or a 3rd rate... but not a 2nd or 1st rate. 

A great example of a successful frigate captain would be Sir Edward Pellew.

[Lz3]

2 hours ago, Bearwall said:

lol Pirates COULD NOT buy first rates or any other rated ships in ports or at the warfs. The manufacture and MAINTENANCE of ship of the lines were very costly, and demanded high expertise not readily available on the markets. The infrastructure to supply a first rate is not just in the building of the ship but in the resupply of ropes (needs constant resupply), tar, gunpowder (a highly regulated market and pirates were never able to purchase quantities to actually be able to resupply a rated ship with the quantities needed for a full compliment of cannons) and crews needed pay, food and medicine - and that would be assuming that any pirate could muster the numbers actually needed for a rated ship (which no pirate ever could).

 

To me it sounds like you want a pirate faction with both a special pirate mechanic and national gameplay mechanics as well. I call that just whishing for a buffed nation. The pirates should be something uncomparable to a nation and if ppl want national gameplay - there's 7 historical nations ingame and 3 ahistorical cartoon nations to play. 

You didn't understand my post - A pirate COULD give himself away as a trader and say that he needed a large ship. They never did that. It's incredibly impractical and requires large trained crews. But, in theory, they COULD do that. That's why I suggest it as a game mechanic since all our crew is full and few times better than Britains top seamen back then.