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Hotfix for patch 13. Le Gros Ventre Refit + Swivels!!!

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15 minutes ago, Guenwhyvar said:

Did we ever get an explanation of what actually happened in the patch yesterday?

 

Answer:

14 hours ago, admin said:

There was no nerf

3 ships had a bug in game which has given them 2 best angles instead of one.
This allowed those ships to sail faster on manual sails (not faster than max speed but faster than this angle allowed)
 

 

13 hours ago, admin said:

fixing the bug changed the square sail curves. every mast has its individual curve and removing the bug changed the curves. We would like to remind that the large hp and speed and br rebalance is coming.  LGVP is still a perfect hunter ship requiring skill and precision. 

Several captains reported the bug and it was fixed.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Zoky said:

@admin Be very careful with re-balance. I propose that you do it in stages in order to avoid more mess. Start with wasa. Nerf speed and lets see how it will affect state of game.

Sounds like Wasa is the God of Naval Action. What did Devs think? Look what you have on your hands now. :) Revolution already on the way prohibiting you to even touch or tune a ship.

Edited by George Washington

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Balance is important in games like these. A small change can have major implications for the way the game is played and the amount of fun everyone has.

The Wasa, in its current form, is completely OP and is damaging to the balance in the game. Faster than any frigate and twice the HP's and broadside? Not funny.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

normal lgv/prince/wasa

So you are saying the Prince is broken also?  How so?  It is a hermaphrodite rig it should have the best all around sailing profile... but not as great at any one point like a dedicated fore and aft or a square rigged ship.

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15 minutes ago, Hodo said:

So you are saying the Prince is broken also?  How so?  It is a hermaphrodite rig it should have the best all around sailing profile... but not as great at any one point like a dedicated fore and aft or a square rigged ship.

It is about speed exploit reported and tested by me and my friends. I discovered it recently, although I heard rumors about it about a year ago, so it could have been used by some players for months. 

By the use of manual sails you could increase the speed on these ships by .5 knots and in extreme situations by 2 knots. That way I was able to make my LGV Refit reach a crazy speed of 15.5 knots which in fact was broken, so we reported it. As a result, the square sails plan got changed so it affected sailing profile, making it much worse than before. Apparently it's unwanted side effect, but reality is that LGV and especially Refit became useless ships now. Their power has turned into their weakness now.

LGV Refit:

-bad sailing profile

-very low firepower (10x 9pd longs)

-very weak HP (just like surprise)

-has only 3 knowledge slots

-has weak masts

-worse sailing profile than normal LGV

+nice paint

+smuggler flag use (considered as abuse by others)

+decent cargo capacity

Edited by Peter Goldman

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10 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

It is about speed exploit reported and tested by me and my friends. I discovered it recently, although I heard rumors about it about a year ago, so it could have been used by some players for months. 

By the use of manual sails you could increase the speed on these ships by .5 knots and in extreme situations by 2 knots. That way I was able to make my LGV Refit reach a crazy speed of 15.5 knots which in fact was broken, so we reported it. As a result, the square sails plan got changed so it affected sailing profile, making it much worse than before. Apparently it's unwanted side effect, but reality is that LGV and especially Refit became useless ships now. Their power has turned into their weakness now.

LGV Refit:

-bad sailing profile

-very low firepower (10x 9pd longs)

-very weak HP (just like surprise)

-has only 3 knowledge slots

-has weak masts

-worse sailing profile than normal LGV

+nice paint

+smuggler flag use (considered as abuse by others)

+decent cargo capacity

You mean the adjustment of the sails manually to get a bit more speed out of the ship? 

You can do that on almost every ship.  

Except on fore-aft-rig ships which should be able to "wing out" the sails and run downwind pretty decently. 

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3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

You mean the adjustment of the sails manually to get a bit more speed out of the ship? 

You can do that on almost every ship.  

...

Ture you can do that on a cerb as well.

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1 minute ago, Hodo said:

You mean the adjustment of the sails manually to get a bit more speed out of the ship? 

You can do that on almost every ship.  

Except on fore-aft-rig ships which should be able to "wing out" the sails and run downwind pretty decently. 

If you consider getting extra 2 knots "a bit more speed":

My LGV Refit, top speed 13.9 knots:

unknown.png

 

Now I regret reporting this exploit looking how it broke the real performance of the ship.

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12 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

It is about speed exploit reported and tested by me and my friends. I discovered it recently, although I heard rumors about it about a year ago, so it could have been used by some players for months. 

By the use of manual sails you could increase the speed on these ships by .5 knots and in extreme situations by 2 knots. That way I was able to make my LGV Refit reach a crazy speed of 15.5 knots which in fact was broken, so we reported it. As a result, the square sails plan got changed so it affected sailing profile, making it much worse than before. Apparently it's unwanted side effect, but reality is that LGV and especially Refit became useless ships now. Their power has turned into their weakness now.

LGV Refit:

-bad sailing profile

-very low firepower (10x 9pd longs)

-very weak HP (just like surprise)

-has only 3 knowledge slots

-has weak masts

-worse sailing profile than normal LGV

+nice paint

+smuggler flag use (considered as abuse by others)

+decent cargo capacity

So your saying that some one that actually knows how to sail and not some noob gets more speed out of it?  Shouldn't it be that way any way?  I mean if you want the top performance out of your ship you need to tweek it to get that out of it.  I honestly don't see issues with getting more speed out of someting by doing it manually instead of auto.  Just about every game that has a auto or manual feature allows you to get just a bit more out of something over the guy that leaves it on auto.

I what is the cargo of the PLVG?  Half the normal right?  Does it get more crew too?  The only added guns are the swivals so if I get less cargo space I better have more guns and more crew.  

3 hours ago, admin said:

This was not a change per se. it was a fix of a bug that was creating abnormal curves improving speeds at some angles. 
We are fully prepared to the Wasa forum fallout once its curves and accels/decels will change.

Wasa should never have been brought in at the same BR as the other 4th rates.  You brought the Aggy and Wappen in at a higher BR and than balanced them off feed back from game player.  That is ya'lls mistake for just throwing it out to every one. When one ship/tank/build becomes meta and that is all the players use there is an issue.  Many of us on Testbed warned you it's going to be a problem. I actually don't mind the Wasa it just needs a Higher BR to put it with the 3rd Rate as they almost have the same stats gun/armor wise.   Than maybe drop it's speed just a bit.   Bring back the old stats of the Connie and Aggy and I think you will have it a lot closer to being balanced.

As for changes it's a long list of things that making me loose interest in the game.  Removing Pirates vs PIrates and this pretty much just topping it off and being burned out a bit from having all our clan leadership leave pretty much to go play other games.  You constantly take thigns out and not replace them with soemthing else and that looses players.  Prime example....WHAT THE HELL IS PAINTS?  why have they been removed if you are changing the system than why can't we have paints until the new system comes out. You be suprised how many folks actually tell me they would simply come back for freaking paints....lol

Though I'll be bluntly honest having nno pirates mechancis over a national is what making me loose interest in this game. If I wanted to play a National I would roll a national.  Hell I would roll Prussian, but won't do it unless I have a means to change that chars name. I kinda want to disappear from being a Pirate and known and just play something else for a while.  Ya'll really should come out with some namechange tokens. I'm sitting on 4 forged papers on all my chars but won't change any of them from pirates unless I can change there names.

2 hours ago, Zoky said:

@admin Be very careful with re-balance. I propose that you do it in stages in order to avoid more mess. Start with wasa. Nerf speed and lets see how it will affect state of game.

I'm really suprsied they haven't gotten a few of us on testbed to test out some of these chanages, thought that was the point of it.  You don't need every one on there.  Hell I'm not realy into the game right now but I would pop in for a few hours every other day on testbed to actualy test out new things.

18 minutes ago, Vile Executioner said:

just remove sail force mods from game. nothing will be insanely fast anymore lol

Part of that problem is the stacking.  Just like they have a limit on the refit mods.  Maybe have a limit where you can only stack one refit mod and one ship knowledge. It's when folks are stacking multy sail force that they are getting some crazy speeds.

 

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@Sir Texas Sir I totally agree, but that's not how the game is designed to work. If players would be able to reach higher speeds by manual management of sails and rigging... I would love it. Instead of stupid upgrades increasing fixed amount of speed it would take knowledge and experience to squize out more of a ship. 

About refit, it has 315 crew, but no more guns - only swivels. No boarding bonus and now it got worse sailing profile than normal LGV.

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Would be funny (maybe for na legends) to have a game mode without any auto skipper - you want to have a decent speed after turning? Better turn those yards

back in the day you didnt have a machine automatically adjusting the rigging for best results :D

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3 minutes ago, Liq said:

Would be funny (maybe for na legends) to have a game mode without any auto skipper - you want to have a decent speed after turning? Better turn those yards

back in the day you didnt have a machine automatically adjusting the rigging for best results :D

I would only worry about macros doing it automatically. I know players using those right now.

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9 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I would only worry about macros doing it automatically. I know players using those right now.

What?!  Players using a program to reduce the amount of clicking to gain an advantage!!!  Say it isn't so!

 

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20 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

I would only worry about macros doing it automatically. I know players using those right now.

I use Macro to auto turn sails by clicking one button. Does it make me better? No. Faster? and more precise? yes. Sorry, but I hate holding my fingers like I have seizures just to manual turn sails. 

Edited by George Washington

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3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

What?!  Players using a program to reduce the amount of clicking to gain an advantage!!!  Say it isn't so!

 

Well, it is supposed to be about skill and experience, not machine doing it automatically for us. A big challenge for Devs to design something like that.

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8 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Well, it is supposed to be about skill and experience, not machine doing it automatically for us. A big challenge for Devs to design something like that.

Auto sail should do everything Manual sail can do, past 90 degrees sails should turn to the right turn through the wind position. It doesn't and this is why new guys suck and get killed or get stuck dead in the wind. Eventually leaving the game for good. You telling me they can't program auto sail to mimic manual sailing? 

Edited by George Washington

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45 minutes ago, Liq said:

back in the day you didnt have a machine automatically adjusting the rigging for best results

You are completely right, they only had bunch of officers responsible for proper operation of ship :P

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9 minutes ago, Zoky said:

You are completely right, they only had bunch of officers responsible for proper operation of ship :P

The more people "interpreting" orders the more chances to something going not entirely as expected :D

oh...wait...that sound oddly familiar.

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There has been a clamour for some time for the Pirates to have a game play all of their own, rather than just another Nation at play. Some Pirates (and no doubt some others in Nations) have made a life of PvP spurning PvE and RvR. Two examples are ALOHA (spit) and RUBLI.

I dislike being ganked as much as the next guy but I believe the refitLGV opened a window on what the Pirate game could be and how it may enter the game along with lots of ideas elsewhere on the forums.  Neither ALOHA (spit again) or RUBLI take any real interest in RVR. The refit offered a hit and run ship they needed to suit their gameplay and whilst the refitLGV was able to outrun, too easily, most anything else I do believe that this gave some players a suitable ship to straighten their warped minds around (:)). I am therefore both pleased (due to personal ship loss!), and sad, to see the refitLGV castrated. Clearly it was giving some players a Pirate PvP game to play AND WE NEED PLAYERS, even some of the mean minded ones! So, if nerfing the refitLGV is required, the devs would do well to take great care to balance the ship rather than just to correct some ship data. 

Buster (Не пират

Edited by Busterbloodvessel

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5 minutes ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

There has been a clamour for some time for the Pirates to have a game play all of their own, rather than just another Nation at play. Some Pirates (and no doubt some others in Nations) have made a life of PvP spurning PvE and RvR. Two examples are ALOHA (spit) and RUBLI.

I dislike being ganked as much as the next guy but I believe the refitLGV opened a window on what the Pirate game could be and how it may enter the game along with lots of ideas elsewhere on the forums.  Neither ALOHA (spit again) or RUBLI take any real interest in RVR. The refit offered a hit and run ship they needed to suit their gameplay and whilst the refitLGV was able to outrun, too easily, most anything else I do believe that this gave some players a suitable ship to straighten their warped minds around (:)). I am therefore both pleased (due to personal ship loss!), and sad, to see the refitLGV castrated. Clearly it was giving some players a Pirate PvP game to play AND WE NEED PLAYERS, even some of the mean minded ones! So, if nerfing the refitLGV is required, the devs would do well to take great care rather than just to correct some ship data. 

Buster (Не пират

A voice of reason from REDS (tfu!). Hear, hear dis Russkie captain, he speaks the truth.

BP 

Edited by Peter Goldman

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5 hours ago, George Washington said:

I use Macro to auto turn sails by clicking one button. Does it make me better? No. Faster? and more precise? yes. Sorry, but I hate holding my fingers like I have seizures just to manual turn sails. 

Mind describing how the macro works?  No drama, just curious the advantage to using 1 button vs 2

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