Poll on limited use of repairs in battles

[George Washington]

1 minute ago, Hodo said:

I  rarely use more than 1 repair of either type in any PVP encounter.  Maybe because I am really picky on my targets, or I dont like taking damage.  

I assume you only sail fast ships then. 

[Hodo]

37 minutes ago, George Washington said:

I assume you only sail fast ships then. 

Is there anything else?

I dont like slow.  

[Vile Executioner]

Those who zerg 8v1 want repair limits. Those who solo hunt and reduce their speed by packing 15x1 repair for sail/hull to survive being ganked 10/1 don’t want repairs to be limited. I will always waiste the time of 10 people who chase you for hours on end. Limit repairs? Give me a row boat crew to tow my constitution away from 15+ Brits like history says it did

[Blackjack Morgan]

2 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

Those who zerg 8v1 want repair limits. Those who solo hunt and reduce their speed by packing 15x1 repair for sail/hull to survive being ganked 10/1 don’t want repairs to be limited. I will always waiste the time of 10 people who chase you for hours on end. Limit repairs? Give me a row boat crew to tow my constitution away from 15+ Brits like history says it did

I'd say completely the opposite to be true. I used to fight probably a majority of my fights where I was outnumbered. Having limited repairs actually made it possible to do so....at least to a much greater extent then is possible now. Skill and positioning had a greater role on turning the odds when mistakes during the fight were magnified due to limited repairs. Half of these examples being brought up as an argument for unlimited repairs are so people can run away easier....that isn't fighting that's just running. As I said earlier....games that have limited healing or respawns etc. always have a higher skill level requirement than those that don't. The effectiveness of chain shot, demasting, battle entry timers, and other things are really separate issues that have been debated for years really. However, the repair system was never really on that list. Multiple repairs do nothing beside mask mistakes in combat, benefit the side with more players, and in general lower the skill level required to be successful. 

[Fargo]

12 hours ago, Blackjack Morgan said:

My theory is they introduced multiple repairs as nothing more than an economy tweak.

If they dont think about something while doing changes, its economy... 

They said they changed repairs to give lone players better chances against groups, dont remember the exact words. For the same reason they changed chaser accuracy, and probably dont care about defensive tagging too much.

Surprisingly all this effects the aggressor aswell. That a group profits more from repairs is simple math. Slightly increasing chances to escape for the lone guy, at cost of heavily decreasing his chances to win an actual fight?! Also heavily reducing chances for hunters hunting the hunters to catch those. Less friendly ships around results in increased risk for the lone guy. I dont get that if a change is a maximum failure, why it not simply gets reverted back. 

5 hours ago, Hodo said:

If I had 1 sail repair and 1 hull repair, the fight would have went the same way for me.   But had they had a faster ship in the fight, it would have been different.  My combat load for the Reno, is 4 complete sail repairs, and 4 extra individual for OW touchups.   And I have 3 complete hull repairs and 2 complete rum runs.

As pointed out already, number of repairs isnt that important, it just needs conditions besides the crew it uses. If you had to use battle sails until you repaired, lets say for 20 seconds, they might have catched you. If there also was a cap at lets say 80% sail, they would have gotten your for sure. Something like this should be the way to go. 

[Hodo]

59 minutes ago, Fargo said:

As pointed out already, number of repairs isnt that important, it just needs conditions besides the crew it uses. If you had to use battle sails until you repaired, lets say for 20 seconds, they might have catched you. If there also was a cap at lets say 80% sail, they would have gotten your for sure. Something like this should be the way to go. 

Even without those conditions had they just had one fast ship it would have been completely different.  At 80% sails my Reno still does 14knts.  I tested it.  At Battle sails at its best point I still do 13knts.   

I still think the crew should be considerably exposed while repairs are being performed.  

[Doug Maoz]

I am conflicted on this issue, but ultimately voted no. Currently:

• 1v1 Sail-shooting chases potentially never conclude, as long as the escapee plays it smart.
• Multi v 1 the escapee will never get away, since the pursuers will have more collective sail HP and repairs than the escapee.
• Masts regrowing like bamboo multiple times is a little silly. I can understand patching/sewing the sheets, but a ship would not generally have multiple replacement masts.
• I like the ability to patch up your sides/sails from minor damage and be able to do another repair later.
• I like the possibility of ships pulling off, to return later. This feels more tactical if you can pull it off with your team.

Overall I believe the multiple repairs are a good thing. However some debuffs to the efficacy of repairing are in order. My suggestions are not to hard limit repairs or repair% but to introduce drawbacks & diminishing returns as follows:

1. Sail repair NEEDS to to take as much crew as hull repair. Currently the % of crew required to do a sail repair is way too low.
2. You should only be able to repair 3 (or some other number) of mast segments during any battle. No infinite spars/masts.
3. Have the repairs diminish in effectiveness each time per battle per repair type, but cost the same repair kit number as a full repair action. Something like 1st sail repair does 100%, 2nd does 75%, 3rd does 50%. Same for hull 100%/75%/50%. 
4. Crew must be more vulnerable to all types of incoming fire during any repair action; crew should take extra damage when the ship's hull is shot during hull/crew repair, and crew should take damage when sails are shot during sail repair.
5. Crew repair should only return up to 75% (or some other %) of crew members lost. There will always be sailors too wounded or dead to return to their positions.
6. Crew repair should require crew investment like the other repair actions. Say, 10% of current crew to move the wounded, and the restored men are all on the Repair action until the crew repair is complete (assisting the surgeon & recuperating). This provides real downsides and choices, not a steady, cheap, resupply of men.

Hopefully these suggestions make sense to other captains as well!

[Zoky]

4 hours ago, Vile Executioner said:

Those who zerg 8v1 want repair limits. Those who solo hunt and reduce their speed by packing 15x1 repair for sail/hull to survive being ganked 10/1 don’t want repairs to be limited. I will always waiste the time of 10 people who chase you for hours on end. Limit repairs? Give me a row boat crew to tow my constitution away from 15+ Brits like history says it did

I usually sailed solo/2man group during 1hull/1sail repair time and didn't have problems with it. I still sail solo/2 man group but this time I do have issues with repairs. At first I was happy with it, but after learning how to efficiently demast I started hating multi repairs and now I see them as lazy. And I hated rum repairs from day one. Leave necromancy to rpg games 

[Lz3]

On 11/1/2017 at 11:50 AM, Lord Gud said:

Please do not limit repairs! This makes no sense as most players use 3-5 repairs already and limiting repairs because of people who use fast ships? Lowering the amount of repairs that can be used will only make them faster... It's a simple theory, fast = squishy/slow = tanky. A fir/fir ship that can possibly carry more repairs then a ship that is incredibly slow because it's live oak/white oak build means the tank ship will not have to repair as much due to the HP/Thickness. There is absolutely nothing wrong with players being able to repair as much as they want because more repairs = slower ship. 

^

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Even without those conditions had they just had one fast ship it would have been completely different.  At 80% sails my Reno still does 14knts.  I tested it.  At Battle sails at its best point I still do 13knts.   

I still think the crew should be considerably exposed while repairs are being performed.  

Sure?! How weird would it be to be outrun by a reno in battle sails. My speed fitted teak Essex does 13,4 kn or so. Funny how things are able to reach a next lvl of stupidity again and again.

Exposing crew would be reasonable to make it a more tactical decision to repair within a fight, but that alone is not preventing easy escapes and boring chases.

[Quineloe]

How about allowing for one major repair per battle that will repair structure hp and masts, and a greater number of small repairs that repair like 10% sail damage, one notch of armor damage?

[randommexi]

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:09 AM, Otto Kohl said:

Just increase downtime between repairs.

this is also a very good option if they want to keep unlimited repairs.  15 minute shared cooldown with all 3 repairs.  so you would only get one repair ever 15 minutes.

[SeaMist]

PVE perspective: Fleet battles need repairs for line ships, particularly when things go a little wrong like last night. ( Leader shown as escaped on entry and message shown we had all left the group) Lineships cannot escape when they are surrounded by enemies. In this case I sailed at best point pursued by four 3rd rates and Bellonas. I prevailed by stretching them out and eliminating them one by one but yes, a few repairs were required. I would have been in trouble without them. And urgent repairs were used a few times too. Please don’t limit them to one. 

[Hammerhaj]

 

On 11/1/2017 at 2:08 PM, rediii said:

multiple repairsystem needs more skill and teamwork to shield people. In other games you have healers for that

Old system was very limited and players only had a small impact on battles when they were skilled. Now ite not only hugging hulls and more skillbased in my oppinion.

Multie repairs needs switching between aggressive and passive style of playing and doing so in the right moments

 

I like the new system more, especially in fleet engagements

Maybe we are both sort of subjective in the matter  

I just think the "healing" is too great, while it works great for you. 

What if a fleet don't have the wind to play passive/aggressive, but defensive/aggressive(to the death) due to casualties? The winning fleet can just rep and send in freshly repped guys. The 1 guy  who made 1000 hull might die in vain.

I think of hugging to be a bigger problem if players can break off and rep, no reason not to hug and do close dmg, when the damage you absorb can be repaired??

More dangerous it will be, if you only have 1 or 2 rep, then you would not wish to hug anyone instantly and battles would prolong naturally, not with ultra many reps ^^

Maybe if repairs had lower % every time its used in the same fight, it would be more fair for both parties.

 

Lets take @Croat in last nights battle for instance. You are the perfect example, and well played yesterday btw. 

After 21 minutes he had this in HP: 

AND in the end of the same battle he got full HP again. 

With the current system of multi rep, in combination with the use of dark magic, resurrecting the dead and it took most fun out of battles and made hugging so much more of a problem. As of now, you have to focus and isolate players to get him done with, it require team effort yes. The swedes are capable of this, better than most and its so annoying to see the dmg one did, getting repaired along the fight. Your impact on the fight is 0, cause if 1 fleet has the upper hand, they can repair multiple times in safety and the other fleet will have so much more difficulty changing course of battle.  

Remove the multi repairs.. 

And change the resurrection of crew. Maybe lost crew should be divided into two groups; "Dead" and "Wounded" whereas wounded can be healed by the ship magician , so they once more can man the cannons. 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2017 by Hammerhaj

[Hodo]

hmm...

Just a thought.

Repairs only repair Structure and, sails, not masts or armor.

This means, you can keep your ship afloat when damaged but not replace the missing armor off of the sides or the mast that has been shot off.

[Khyron]

50% additional every use?

so lets say your in a ship that takes 10 hull repairs per use....

First Use 10

Second   15

third        22

and so on, more repairs weight = slower ship... maybe that could be the middle ground?

[Sang Noir]

Limit it to 1 hull and 1 sails only. Consider having to spend hull repairs on leaks as well (may remain automated). Consider a philosophy that repairs are mainly for OW, not for instance. Maybe it promotes a playstyle in which long range cannon battles become more common again, opposed to the aggressive boarding. I also want to see a lot more sunken ships in PBs.

[Hethwill]

Unlimited repairs in OW, to simulated the time it took to refit the ship after battles.

Limited repairs/surgery on board to limit the "urgency" and limitations of acting in such systems under cannon fire and dangerous environment.

[Hodo]

1 hour ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

Limit it to 1 hull and 1 sails only. Consider having to spend hull repairs on leaks as well (may remain automated). Consider a philosophy that repairs are mainly for OW, not for instance. Maybe it promotes a playstyle in which long range cannon battles become more common again, opposed to the aggressive boarding. I also want to see a lot more sunken ships in PBs.

Already a lot of ships sinking in PBs.

But I agree with you on limiting the repairs.  I just dont think setting it to a magical lock of 1 and 1 is the right way. 

I would rather see it become so crew intensive that is all you can do while doing it, and your crew become VERY exposed. 

[Hodo]

24 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The problem will remain.

A faster ship will sail away and get into the fight again every 12 mins if he do well.

While he is sailing away he only cares to repair as soon as possible and the crew loss can be easily solved using rum after repairs. 

More penalties should be applied when you activate the repairs.

Not if repairs take 100% of your crew leaving you with nobody sailing. 

Your ship will come to a stop and leave you helpless. 

If you leave sailing on and gunnery on, you will lose the amount of repaired percent by the amount of men short of the task you are.

So if you need 100 men on a ship that has 100men to do the repair, and you have 25 on sails and 75 on repairs, then you only get 75% of the repair value normally done. 

I also think sailing should require MORE crew at full sails than it does now.  A ship sailing at full sails is not an easy ship to handle, you need a lot of men to handle all of the ropes on the sails.   Battle sails should require less, as you have less actual sail aloft so you have more men free for other combat tasks on the ship. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by Hodo

[BallsOfSteel]

There no skill in a fast ship when you can repair endlessly.

Limit of 2 is fine and much more balanced as is the limit on chain shot which is really needed to balance the limit of sail repairs

[Hodo]

Just now, Intrepido said:

100%? A bit strange...

And you can have zero crew at sailing while you reach max speed. You cant use sails but once you figured your best course it doesnt matter.

Then you better hope you are pointed away from the fight and no one is going to engage you while you are sailing (drifting) in a straight line.  90seconds is a long time to be caught sailing straight.

[Thomas G. Marshall]

I don't see why we should be limited to 4 repairs across the board. you need to have the needed amount and right type of repair to keep doing it, it have a cool down of several minutes and to get the full effect you need to be able to disengage. 

So because some people are playing in a slightly different way more suited to their style, they and everyone else should get, what i see as, penalized? 

This proposed change also just feels way to arcade-like to me as well... "we have the wood and nails needed sir, but Admiralty prohibits us from repairing more than four times in a single battle" 

[Liq]

12 minutes ago, Thomas G. Marshall said:

This proposed change also just feels way to arcade-like to me as well... "we have the wood and nails needed sir, but Admiralty prohibits us from repairing more than four times in a single battle" 

For the longest time we ALWAYS had limited repairs, started from sea trials all the way to when structure was introduced - To me it's the other way around; multi repair seems arcadish

Example:
You can stack repair mods / perks / skillbooks so you get a HP repair of 50%. Do that twice (11 min cooldown) and you put together a brand new ship in the heat of a battle - Now tell me that isn't arcadey?

Sure, IRL vessels would carry some repair tools - to fix the damage that needed to be fixed asap - But no way they were prepared for, let alone carrying, repairs to  get in a shape they felt confident to get back in an engagement

[Klava Pupkina]

01.11.2017 в 13:24, admin сказал:

Пожалуйста, проголосуйте за ограниченное использование ремонта в боях

Текущее состояние битвы помогает более быстрым кораблям с большим количеством ремонтов, которые могут разъединиться и вернуться в бой. Сражения в целом дольше, и побег легче с неограниченным ремонтом. 

Мы предлагаем обсудить ограничения на ремонт, например (3-4 использования на битву за все ремонтные работы), сохраненные на корабле (чтобы вы могли захватить корабль, который не использовался ремонт и продолжать сражаться в нем). 

 

01.11.2017 в 13:24, admin сказал:

Пожалуйста, проголосуйте за ограниченное использование ремонта в боях

Текущее состояние битвы помогает более быстрым кораблям с большим количеством ремонтов, которые могут разъединиться и вернуться в бой. Сражения в целом дольше, и побег легче с неограниченным ремонтом. 

Мы предлагаем обсудить ограничения на ремонт, например (3-4 использования на битву за все ремонтные работы), сохраненные на корабле (чтобы вы могли захватить корабль, который не использовался ремонт и продолжать сражаться в нем). 

При вводе ограничений на ремонт, возвращайте количество пробок в зависимости от того, насколько уменьшится количество ремонтов, и халявный ремонт в ОМ без использования того что в трюме.

Не стоит трогать эту механику, сильно много откатывать назад и переписывать в коде. Оно Вам надо?

ПС. Автозамена: количество прочностей

Edited December 22, 2017 by Klava Pupkina