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Eleazar de Damas

Green on Green by Gameover and Moscalb

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On the 24th of October, some captains from the EdR clan were trying to set-up hostility in Fort-Dauphin.

Some Danish captains entered in the fight, to try to prevent Frenchs to do it. This is fully fair and normal in a combat game.

But some pirates, from the [RUBLI] clan came in too, most of them in Danish side, and one of them in the French side. And in fact, this player “Gameover”, fought for Danes, being under the French flag. He was very few shot by Danes, and ended the fight almost intact, all other French players being captured or sunk.

He helped another player (Moscalb) to capture a Wasa. Gameover pushed a French player (Chateaugiron) in the Wind to reduce his speed, then Moscalb boarded Chateaugiron.

I think that the other Danish players ("real" Danes and not pirates) were not organizers of this cheating trap, they just kept some advantage on it.

But the green to green by pirates was fully intentional and prepared (one on French side, the others on Danish side). This is clearly cheating, and strictly prohibited by the rules of the game.

 

I was not in this fight, but I tried and organized the collection of "proofs", to be sure that elements would be sufficient and clear for this tribunal. Screenshots were not clear enough to show this kind of green on green but fortunately, one of our Young captains, sunk during early stage of the battle, came back from afk and registered what he saw when coming back.

It took me some evenings to translate and place subtitles in the right place. Here below the "dossier".

 

 

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Ouep, effectivement ca sent la sanction pour les pirates.

C'est vraiment laid, ce type comportement devrait être sévèrement sanctionné, mais bon.

Pour ce qui est de la vidéo, elle est très intéressante pour les Fr surtout a la 10mins14sec...

Pour Chateaugiron, j'espère que justice sera faite dans tout les sens du terme ;) 

 

 

 

 

Edited by fouchet

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6 minutes ago, Cabral said:

 Eléazar I'm not surprised with that, some days ago 3 PODW pirates (Klava Pupkina, Karl Evertsen and other) jumped on a battle player vs AI inside british reinforcement zone (east entrance to KPR bay), they jumped on the british player side and they capped his ship. We said on global chat that they were gonna be reported for cheating, Karl answer was: "in KPR all ships are pvp ships". It's easy to see that his IQ is low but that's not excuse for cheating.

The British player later provided screenshots though and in fact they didn't join the british side. He even admitted he made a mistake. So we should keep this case out of here.

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16 minutes ago, Batman said:

The British player later provided screenshots though and in fact they didn't join the british side. He even admitted he made a mistake. So we should keep this case out of here.

 Didn't knew that, I apologize for my ignorance.

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This battle was on live stream
Gamover indeed admitted that he joined the french side by mistake
But he could not convey it fast enough to the french players who started shooting at him thinking he joined them on purpose (to interfere)
 

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Couldn't we be sure he joinded the french side on purpose to cheat using the green-on-green rule? What make me think that:

He admit being on the wrong side, and he tells the french to shoot on him, BUT he didn't shoot on purpose on the french.

-> IF it was a mystake, a could have left (nor french or pirate or allied danes would have shout on him for 1 min 40).

-> The only legit reason that can make him stay is that his ship was needed to win the battle. BUT he didn't openly open fire on french captains. He clearly didn't want to openly go against the green-on-green rule but wanted his ennemy to do so (He tells french to shoot at him).

His strategy was to use the green-on-green rule to be immune to french because of their high respect of rules, and to be the more inconvenient possible for them (including covering his allies, preventing a good sight to open fire, raming or blobking path to french) to impel them to open a green-on-green fire.

Not only was this captain playing a more and more openly gree-on-green card as the fight was going on, but he also provoked other players to do so, by his words and by his attitude.

And please, consider the few french shoots done against gameover as what they are : random fire that were supposed to hit ennemies, but damaged gameover instead because he was screening with his ship. Even this random fire landing on gameover could be consider as green-on-green by gameover because he was protecting danish and pirates players.

In my eyes : gameover has done green-on-green on purpose and have been abbusive against the general rules, breaking the game rule right enough in hope his ennemy would infringe them even more.

Thanks for your patience with my approximate english.

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9 minutes ago, Tyhelior said:

His strategy was to use the green-on-green rule to be immune to french because of their high respect of rules, and to be the more inconvenient possible for them (including covering his allies, preventing a good sight to open fire, raming or blobking path to french) to impel them to open a green-on-green fire.

I did not have time to review the video due to patch.. Are you saying french did not shoot at Gamover during the whole battle but he did shoot at them?

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Déjà j'adore les commentaires, entre agressivité et bonne esprit:).

Ce genre de situations dans la quelle vous vous trouvez, hostilité+pvp l'un des meilleurs atouts du jeu!

RUBLI, KIWI et PODW sont parmis mes clans favoris, toujours de toutes les batailles et souvent en sous nombres.

Pour Buena Vista, ils sont venus aider alors que perdue d'avance.

Tout cela pour dire, qu'ils jouent plus pour le fun que pour préserver leurs navires.

Je pense sincèrement à une erreur.

Soit la prochaine fois, vous  le coulez comme un ennemi,  et le dire au préalable dans le chat.

Je me demande si ce n'est pas une question de br, il est rentré pour ce battre, mais surtout pour le fun.

Mais to be cool,

(si j'avais été là, je les aurais aidé:))

 

Edited by n_Ka
les fautes d'ortographes :)

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Gameover plus Chateaigiron in front of the wind to force him to be aboard. 

Two times Gameover go on the escape way of french ship to force them to stay in the middle of danish fleet.  Moreover Gameover stay on my sight of fire to protect à Danish player from my Buccentaure damage  burst.

If it was à mistake to join french side, he  just have to runaway from the battle, not coming in the middle of it. 

It's clearly  an exploit of the capacity of pirates to join both side of a battle which create a  Green to Green situation. Le 

I hope the judgement will be fair but strict. Because what it happened this evening is inacceptable ! 

 

Edited by Comeonche

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Entered on the wrong side by mistake ? Once you see you are on the wrong side, you can't ask other players to break the rules and shoot on green. That only fact should be punished.

What level is this player ? Thief ? Rascal ? Let's see... Curse! Every one knows that "Curse" is the first  last XP level for Pirate Nation. And still you want to believe that he joined by mistake?

Let's assume you joined by mistake while you are on Naval Action long enough to access the CURSE level, you know there is a green on green rule, you leave the combat. You do not get involved.

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Hi all.
Yes, I joined to french side by mistake and I couldn't rejoin battle. But:
1) French players can see that I have same clan-tag like their enemies, so they could ignore rule about green to green and kill me (there was addition to rules about it, I hope some moderator will help me to find it). So if you playing to game, you should know rules of game.
2) Anyway, I didn't shot anybody first and didn't threaten tribunal for green to green when french players shot me.
https://imgur.com/a/EkmYa here you may see who did first damage to me and it wasn't random shots with 1-2 balls by mistake. And it was in 5-10 mins after I joined to battle. So is there some tribunal post about green to green by french player fofopicote? No, he may did it in rules like all french players.
3) Anyway, during the battle I didn't shot any others players if they didn't shot me. It was my mistake and I didn't want abuse unexpected shots. 
4) About Chateaigiron and his boarding. I hope, good player with last XP level for French Nation by the end of the battle must understand who is enemy and who is friend.

So I apologize for my mistake and discomfiture in this battle for all players (not only french side), but, as I know, I didn't break the rules.
 

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13 hours ago, admin said:

I did not have time to review the video due to patch.. Are you saying french did not shoot at Gamover during the whole battle but he did shoot at them?

 

A better question is : Do we consider : green-on-green = open shoot , or do we admit Naval action has a more in-depth combat system, and we can consider that body-blocking on purpose someone is a game mechanism? Preventing someone to open fire on a weak target by blocking the sight is a game mechanism or not? Using our ship as a shield for an ally is a game mechanism or not?

Please, as you know naval action is a game well developed, and asking us : Who shoot first? like if we were playing a basic turn by turn board game will not provide smart answers.

 

This pirate player use an exploit about green-on-green, and you can see it by watching the video. Good night good sailors.

Edited by Tyhelior

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I would be careful in weighing in on this, but entering a battle accidentally on the wrong side is something that could very possibly happen if it is someone's mission where there are not two positional circles like in tagged battles. However it would seem that the obvious course of action when you find that you accidentally joined the wrong side in a battle is to either accept it and fight it, or leave it and retreat. You could either join the fight on the side that you chose to click - accidentally. Even if you fight against your friends it is still PvP, or you could accept the mistake and retreat and escape while your friends fight the battle without you. If your friends are the opposition in the battle, I am sure you could convince them to not tag you and to let you sail out of the fight and away to escape. Your friends would be one ship down in the fight, but such is the consequence of your mistake. I am not passing judgement on this tribunal case in particular, but it would seem to me that it would be unfair that the side that you joined by accident, would have to suffer the consequences of your mistake by having to absorb the XP penalty from green-on-green damage shooting at you even if you tell them to do os, or that you would gain any advantage from your mistake such as blocking shots or hindering ships when their players are hesitant about sinking or shooting a ship with friendly colours. If you just tell one side you joined that they should do green-on-green and fight you despite the same colours then you pawn the consequences of your mistake onto your opponents rather than assuming the responsibility yourself.

False flags were a thing historically, but neither our game mechanics or our game rules allow for that to be historically recreated. So if you join a side in a battle you should fight for that side. The rules are maybe not clear enough on this currently, but then they could be clarified.

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14 hours ago, Gamover said:

(...)
1) French players can see that I have same clan-tag like their enemies, so they could ignore rule about green to green and kill me (there was addition to rules about it, I hope some moderator will help me to find it). So if you playing to game, you should know rules of game.
(...)

 

I am no moderator but I will help you.

Quote

  Do not, under any circumstances, return fire or damage the offending player yourself.  "Self Defense" may not excuse you from being found guilty of green on green damage.

Quote

You can not, under any circumstances, intentionally damage a green ship in your battle, or you will be subject to the sanctions in this post.

So indeed you asked french players to break this rule and you still claim they should have.

 

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1 hour ago, Anolytic said:

I would be careful in weighing in on this, but entering a battle accidentally on the wrong side is something that could very possibly happen if it is someone's mission where there are not two positional circles like in tagged battles. However it would seem that the obvious course of action when you find that you accidentally joined the wrong side in a battle is to either accept it and fight it, or leave it and retreat.

Gamover was never reported before for such exploits and from our understanding he declared his mistake to french players in chat and requested to combat on the enemy side

Mistakes could happen and in this case @Gamover should have left the battle or just stayed as an observer after french declined his request to fight them (even being on their side).  

A warning will be issued to him

Капитан Гамовер после того как французы отказались принять его за врага в этом бою должен был покинуть бой или остаться в нем наблюдателем 

Решение - будет вынесено предупреждение

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the rule must be clarified though
if the enemy is trying to damage you being on your side - we believe it should be ok to sink him or capture the ship. 

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