Nerf or Re-balance the Wasa

[bubz]

I am going to be comparing the Wasa to most used 4th rate war ships before The Wasa was released - The Constitution in open world and the Agamemnon in port battles. Not that it matters anyway, since now the only ship I ever see being used is the Wasa: in both open world and port battles. For the reasons I am about to attempt and explain. Using the data available on "official" wiki www.navalactionwiki.com

So the Wasa can be purchased for 150 combat marks, much cheaper and much more accessible than crafting any other 4th rate ship - it does not require a level 2/3 shipyard, it doesn't require any crafting level, it doesn't require any of the materials needed to craft the ship at all, not even the very expensive woods like white oak and bermuda, if for what ever reason you want to make a wasa out of them. No. All you need is 150 marks and BAM, the ship is yours, out of any wood type that you could possibly wish for.  It has almost the same turn rate as the Constitution and the Agamemnon. But unlike the Agamemnon and the Constitution it has almost 10% more Armour HP. Ah well, couple of cannon balls you might think. Well a broadside with a weight of 765pd (Same broadside weight as an average 3rd ship rate in fact.) with 32pd, 24pd, 9pd armament might change your mind when a Constitution and The Agamemnon have a broadside weight of 504pd and 600pd respectively, and none of them can even mount 32pd making it much more harder to penetrate the Wasa at any angle than right angle which has the same thickness as the 2 other ships. Surely there are two other 4th rates that can mount 32pd cannons, whats the big deal? Well both of those ships lose out big time on speed and armor (even though their broadside weight doesn't even come close to the one of a Wasa, highest topping at 642pd on an Ingermanland) unlike our beloved Wasa of course, which has the same speed as the Constitution (fastest 4th rate) resulting in an absolute joke when combined with her 6 bow chasers. The sailing pattern in average through out all 3 ships, est angle being around 30 degrees from Running with the wind.

Conclusion? Wasa is Superior and outclasses every other 4th rate to the point when people ask you "Why the hell would you use the any 4th rate ship instead of the Wasa?!" regardless of the wood type and the upgrades that you may have on it, and hence absolutely killing any diversity there could be within 4th rates used. Which is perfectly understandable in fact, since its just so much cheaper and accessible than every other 4th rate ship and better in every possible way, there is absolutely no reason to use any other 4th rate apart from aesthetic reason of course (because lets be real the Wasa Is not the most aesthetically pleasing ship) which is a real shame because  those ships do in fact look beautiful (for the likes of the Constitution and the Agamemnon), just such a pity they are so futile and obsolete now.

Solution? Nerf the Wasa, or buff the other 4th rates. Make Wasa considerably slower and slightly decrease its turn rate as an example or screw with its sail pattern. Alternatively make the Constitution and the Agamemnon a bit faster with a bit more health and turn rate. Or even make the Wasa a 3rd rate instead of a 4th rate (effectively locking it out of 4th rate port battles) and increase its price (like 250 marks), after all it is more like a 3rd rate in game than a 4th rate stat wise, albeit a weak one when compared to another OP ship: Bellona which just like the Wasa is the top of her class.

I do apologize if these points were mentioned and addressed elsewhere.

Thank you

[Rigs]

[CaptainCaveMan]

Let me get this...because players can't adapt their play to the new ship...it needs to be nerfed...LMAO  May want to try a different game if you can't adapt to change

[Capn Rocko]

Just now, CaptainCaveMan said:

Let me get this...because players can't adapt their play to the new ship...it needs to be nerfed...LMAO  May want to try a different game if you can't adapt to change

I think the point is that is trying to be made here is that the Wasa out-performs any other ship of its class and kills the desire to sail any other 4th rate. I do not have much of an opinion on the matter, but I agree they can be a pain to kill if sailed by a skilled captain (not complaining). 

[CaptainCaveMan]

2 minutes ago, Capn Rocko said:

I think the point is that is trying to be made here is that the Wasa out-performs any other ship of its class and kills the desire to sail any other 4th rate. I do not have much of an opinion on the matter, but I agree they can be a pain to kill if sailed by a skilled captain (not complaining). 

Understood...but to change the ship because players fail to adapt is just reinforcing that failure...players should improvise and adapt their playing skills in order to overcome any perceived shortcoming in their ship...what do they think when new technologies are introduced to the battlefield...LOL  Just Saying!!!

[bubz]

11 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

Understood...but to change the ship because players fail to adapt is just reinforcing that failure...players should improvise and adapt their playing skills in order to overcome any perceived shortcoming in their ship...what do they think when new technologies are introduced to the battlefield...LOL  Just Saying!!!

Sure. But whats the point in doing that if you could just use a Wasa instead?

[Lord Gud]

30 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

Understood...but to change the ship because players fail to adapt is just reinforcing that failure...players should improvise and adapt their playing skills in order to overcome any perceived shortcoming in their ship...what do they think when new technologies are introduced to the battlefield...LOL  Just Saying!!!

This guy sails a Wasa 

[Teutonic]

The Wasa needs a balance to it and I have said multiple suggestions in other threads similar to this.

the Wasa needs an adjustment period.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Teutonic

[Lord Gud]

The only thing that needs to be nerfed is the speed of the Wasa because it's just too damn fast, also the ships should not be accessible with marks as it takes 1-2 missions to get 150 marks...

Edited October 22, 2017 by Lord Gud

[Rigs]

I got killed by Wasa, buff me and nerf everyone else 

[CaptainCaveMan]

23 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

The Wasa needs a balance to it and I have said multiple suggestions in other threads similar to this.

the Wasa needs an adjustment period.

No requirement for a re-balancing...adapt the play style...is this such a hard concept for players to understand???

[Serk]

7 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

No requirement for a re-balancing...adapt the play style...is this such a hard concept for players to understand???

Yeah, adapt by sailing a Wasa.

[Teutonic]

11 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

No requirement for a re-balancing...adapt the play style...is this such a hard concept for players to understand???

Alright then, as I posed the question before, I'll do it again.

Tell me what 4th rate beats the wasa in a battle and then show me a screenshot of said example.

So far no one has done that.

[Lord Gud]

4 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

No requirement for a re-balancing...adapt the play style...is this such a hard concept for players to understand???

6 stern chaser/4 bow chasers so it can run/chase anything with the speed of a Constitution. 26 32pd cannons compared to 28 32pd cannons on the Bellona which is a 3rd rate. 550 crew compared to 500 crew of the Agamemnon. You are just another Wasa user who does not care for balancing the game 

[CaptainCaveMan]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

Alright then, as I posed the question before, I'll do it again.

Tell me what 4th rate beats the wasa in a battle and then show me a screenshot of said example.

So far no one has done that.

Out of all the people playing the game...no one in a 4th rate has killed a Wasa...I find that extremely hard to believe because there are some very good players in this game

[Landsman]

19 hours ago, bubz said:

"Why the hell would you use the any 4th rate ship instead of the Wasa?!"

Meet @Malachy . ( tho he is the only one i met so far )

Edited October 22, 2017 by Landsman

[CaptainCaveMan]

1 hour ago, Lord Gud said:

6 stern chaser/4 bow chasers so it can run/chase anything with the speed of a Constitution. 26 32pd cannons compared to 28 32pd cannons on the Bellona which is a 3rd rate. 550 crew compared to 500 crew of the Agamemnon. You are just another Wasa user who does not care for balancing the game 

I actually hate the Wasa...played it a few times but don't care for it...if I have to play a 4th rate then I play an Aga...just like the game play.  But "nerfing" because players can't deal with it...then they should be playing a game with simpler mechanics

[Landsman]

3 hours ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

Let me get this...because players can't adapt their play to the new ship...it needs to be nerfed...LMAO  May want to try a different game if you can't adapt to change

Enjoying the broken Wasa quite a bit, aren't we? You have to be fairly retarded to not see how it is overperforming, in case you're serious. "Adapt to change" would be to sail Wasa too, so we are all sailing Wasa... 

[Rigs]

[Farrago]

It actually has very little to do with PVP or players "adapting". What percentage of combat in this game is vs other players? I'd be surprised if it was as high as 10%.

But the Wasa as is makes 4th rate missions even easier -- more of a mindless grind -- and by having a lower BR than it should, the rewards for damaging or sinking 3rd rates and bigger are not in balance with the same accomplishment in a Connie or Aggie.

This discussion is not about you being able to kill a Wasa with a different ship. It's about the Wasa being rated accurately according to its capabilities.

[CaptainCaveMan]

31 minutes ago, Landsman said:

Enjoying the broken Wasa quite a bit, aren't we? You have to be fairly retarded to not see how it is overperforming, in case you're serious. "Adapt to change" would be to sail Wasa too, so we are all sailing Wasa... 

It's a shame that you can't read...but with this response...I understand that your dimisnished cognitive abilities are severely limited and that those taxes for public school were mostly wasted.  You should strongly consider a lesser game such as minecraft...they have all kinds of crayons that they can use to explain it to you.

Edited October 22, 2017 by CaptainCaveMan
spelling

[Rigs]

20 minutes ago, Farrago said:

It actually has very little to do with PVP or players "adapting". What percentage of combat in this game is vs other players? I'd be surprised if it was as high as 10%.

But the Wasa as is makes 4th rate missions even easier -- more of a mindless grind -- and by having a lower BR than it should, the rewards for damaging or sinking 3rd rates and bigger are not in balance with the same accomplishment in a Connie or Aggie.

This discussion is not about you being able to kill a Wasa with a different ship. It's about the Wasa being rated accurately according to its capabilities.

This is a new approach!

Then lets nerf Indefatigable because of 5th rate missions.

[bubz]

9 minutes ago, CaptainCaveMan said:

"Adapt to change"

Thing is, whats the point? Why even bother to adapt and change if you can just pick yourself up a Wasa and sink every other 4th rate without a problem? In fact you would be shooting yourself and 24 other players in your team in the foot if you didn't do that in a 4th rate port battle. 

[Farrago]

1 hour ago, Rigs said:

This is a new approach!

Then lets nerf Indefatigable because of 5th rate missions.

Um, please take a moment to read what I wrote. I'll assume you're not just a troll contrarian despite how it appears. I'll also assume you're not an idiot despite how it appears.

i did not say to nerf anything. In fact, I voted NOT to nerf the Wasa  

But since XP, gold, tagging rules, and soon port battle entry are based on BR then it only makes sense to get it right. If in all ways the Wasa outperforms a Connie on paper, then it should have a higher BR (and perhaps a higher cost).

You do realize the fact -- and the reasoning behind it -- that a Rattlesnake has a lower BR than a Victory despite the fact that there are some in this game that can kill your First Rate with their Heavy Rattler.

[Rigs]

1 minute ago, Farrago said:

Um, please take a moment to read what I wrote. I'll assume you're not just a troll contrarian despite how it appears. I'll also assume you're not an idiot despite how it appears.

i did not say to nerf anything. In fact, I voted NOT to nerf the Wasa  

But since XP, gold, tagging rules, and soon port battle entry are based on BR then it only makes sense to get it right. If in all ways the Wasa outperforms a Connie on paper, then it should have a higher BR (and perhaps a higher cost).

You do realize the fact -- and the reasoning behind it -- that a Rattlesnake has a lower BR than a Victory despite the fact that there are some in this game that can kill your First Rate with their Heavy Rattler.

Those type of comments make you a troll... or the pot calling the kettle...

I think you need to revisit your posts and make up your mind.

1 hour ago, Farrago said:

It actually has very little to do with PVP or players "adapting". What percentage of combat in this game is vs other players? I'd be surprised if it was as high as 10%.

But the Wasa as is makes 4th rate missions even easier -- more of a mindless grind -- and by having a lower BR than it should, the rewards for damaging or sinking 3rd rates and bigger are not in balance with the same accomplishment in a Connie or Aggie.

This discussion is not about you being able to kill a Wasa with a different ship. It's about the Wasa being rated accurately according to its capabilities.