Rigs Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said: It's OP by stats. Not according to your statement below. 3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: any ship can take down any ship. This isn't news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 Just now, Rigs said: Not according to your statement below. Ok so everyone should just sail the cerb since any ship can take any ship and stats don't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 2 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: Ok so everyone should just sail the cerb since any ship can take any ship and stats don't matter Just sail your Reno you be fine, as long any ship can take any ship like you said, the ships are not the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 18 minutes ago, Rigs said: You know some are able to take down the Wasa with the Cerberus for example so what's that telling you? That is a skill thing not a stats. The average player cant do it I'll assure you unless the Wasa player is a complete noob. As I stated above the Wasa isn't OP per say the problem is it's BR and the fact it's the strongest ship in it's tier and cheap as hell to get. Move the BR to put it up with the 3rds Rates where it belongs and rebalance the actual 4th rates that got nerfed after they where released. Ever wonder why when they came out they had higher BR? It was to balance them in the game. They didn't do that with the WASA, they just tossed it in to a tier as the top ship and gave it to every one. Premium ships and such should not be the top ship of there tier and the way I see it with them being bought with CM they are the premium ships of this game being sold like that. 3rd rate honestly would of made more since to give folks. Something they can grind with in OW and fight with, but it's not the top dog of the tier. Really if any one remembers the Old Aggy, Ingermanland,, and even Connies stats if they got tweeked back to there release stats the Wasa would look more balance in the 4th rate slots, but it still has the armor and more Broad Side than a 3rd Rate ship. It sits in stats between the 3rd ratae and the Bellona so it should have a BR in that area not where it's at now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rigs said: Just sail your Reno you be fine, as long any ship can take any ship like you said, the ships are not the problem. You're missing the point. Stats DO matter, that's why the devs balance ships. Just because a good surprise captain can cap a L'Ocean doesn't mean that ship balance goes out the window. Just compare the Agga to the Wasa, Wasa completely outclasses it, no competition Edited October 19, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said: That is a skill thing not a stats. The average player cant do it I'll assure you unless the Wasa player is a complete noob. As I stated above the Wasa isn't OP per say the problem is it's BR and the fact it's the strongest ship in it's tier and cheap as hell to get. Move the BR to put it up with the 3rds Rates where it belongs and rebalance the actual 4th rates that got nerfed after they where released. Ever wonder why when they came out they had higher BR? It was to balance them in the game. They didn't do that with the WASA, they just tossed it in to a tier as the top ship and gave it to every one. Premium ships and such should not be the top ship of there tier and the way I see it with them being bought with CM they are the premium ships of this game being sold like that. 3rd rate honestly would of made more since to give folks. Something they can grind with in OW and fight with, but it's not the top dog of the tier. Really if any one remembers the Old Aggy, Ingermanland,, and even Connies stats if they got tweeked back to there release stats the Wasa would look more balance in the 4th rate slots, but it still has the armor and more Broad Side than a 3rd Rate ship. It sits in stats between the 3rd ratae and the Bellona so it should have a BR in that area not where it's at now. Wasa was introduced to attract more players to the game and get them into port battles hence the 4th rate, they also had to make it appealing and cheap. A lots quit before getting a lv. 3 shipyard. They said that all the ships will get balanced, hopefully by balancing up and not down. Nerfing things usually leads to artificially increasing the TTK and that's the last thing we need. Edited October 19, 2017 by Rigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Washington Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said: You're missing the point. Stats DO matter, that's why the devs balance ships. Just because a good surprise captain can cap a L'Ocean doesn't mean that ship balance goes out the window. Just compare the Agga to the Wasa, Wasa completely outclasses it, no competition Wasa is weak vs Agamemnons Carronades? 160 vs 618, still Wasa 797 beats everything Agamemnon can carry. Edited October 20, 2017 by George Washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, George Washington said: Wasa is weak vs Agamemnons Carronades? 160 vs 618, still Wasa 797 beats everything Agamemnon can carry. And Wasa could just kite any carronade build ship with its 12.3 base knts and 10 chasers. Wasa while being the best PB 4th rate can also outrun/chase any 4th rate 1v1, and also almost any 5th rate except maybe a fir/fir surp maxed out on mods at beam reach. But that's not including the 6 front guns which would turn that around after a few minutes if the surp can't get out of range in time. Basically the Wasa is a huge middle finger to ship balance. Edited October 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquillas Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) That's a fact that the apparition of the Wasa pushed away from PvP many other types used before. And not only in the 4th rate range. Do you see Renos anymore? No, Wasas took the place. I think that all ships should have their strength and weaknesses. In the present choice set, all plyers will soon use only basic cutters, Surprise (the only ship that can escape a Wasa) Wasa and Ocean. I love Aggies and Belle Poule. I know that in these ships, I am just a target. Edited October 20, 2017 by Eléazar de Damas 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 6 hours ago, George Washington said: Wasa is weak vs Agamemnons Carronades? 160 vs 618, still Wasa 797 beats everything Agamemnon can carry. Those numbers aren't right, one ship is counting the cannons the other is not counting them. I mean the Wasa has 32 lb carros on it's upper decks the Aggy has 12 lb Carros. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norfolk nChance Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) On 10/20/2017 at 4:28 PM, Sir Texas Sir said: Those numbers aren't right, one ship is counting the cannons the other is not counting them. I mean the Wasa has 32 lb carros on it's upper decks the Aggy has 12 lb Carros. Have a play with this old excel sheet with the cannons and carros loadouts Edited September 26, 2018 by Norfolk nChance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, George Washington said: Wasa is weak vs Agamemnons Carronades? 160 vs 618, still Wasa 797 beats everything Agamemnon can carry. Wut? 10 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said: And Wasa could just kite any carronade build ship with its 12.3 base knts and 10 chasers. Wasa while being the best PB 4th rate can also outrun/chase any 4th rate 1v1, and also almost any 5th rate maybe a fir/fir surp maxed out on mods at beam reach. But that's not including the 6 front guns which would turn that around after a few minutes if the surp can't get out of range in time. Basically the Wasa is a huge middle finger to ship balance. I don't know what you guys on, must be the good stuff... Slim, not even close, it just looks you really sore mate... Edited October 20, 2017 by Rigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rigs said: You put less repairs on the surprise. With equal amount the Wasa is only about .3 knts slower, which is pretty insane for a 3rd rate that also has cutter firepower on the chase guns. Now compare it to a ship that doesn't have an amazing sailing profile and the Wasa out chases, out guns, out tanks and out sails any ship 4th rate and under. It's that good. Edited October 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: You put less repairs on the surprise. With equal amount the Wasa is only about .3 knts slower, which is pretty insane for a 3rd rate that also has cutter firepower on the chase guns. Now compare it to a ship that doesn't have an amazing sailing profile and the Wasa catches it every time Hah! You killing me! I'd take stern chasers vs. bow chasers accuracy any day... Also, you always use/take more repairs in a Wasa than a Surprise. You should know that by now. I told you mate it's not always the ship's fault when you lose... Edited October 20, 2017 by Rigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Rigs said: Hah! You killing me! You always use/take more repairs in a Wasa than a Surprise. You should know that by now. I told you mate it's not always the ship's fault when you lose... You must really love the Wasa to shill this hard for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Slim Jimmerson said: You must really love the Wasa to shill this hard for it. Is that all you got? You must really hate Wasa to shill these nerf threads for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 @Rigs What ship would you sail in the OW to fight players who are sailing in Wasa's? With the intention of fighting them and beating them. Currently I have absolutely 0 reason to sail anything but the wasa because of how overpowering it is against anything it would fight in the OW. The only ships I am afraid of are Bellonas and bigger, and none of them are fast enough to catch me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Rigs said: Is that all you got? You must really hate Wasa to shill these nerf threads for it. I gave reasonable stats and logic. You gave a bias chart. Again... The speed/turning rate of a frigate. Broadside of a 3rd rate. Armor of a heavy 4th. 10 chasers and an amazing sailing profile for its size. It's OP as shite. The PVP meta currently is the most FOTM pandering meta I've ever seen. PVP is crap right now because of it. Edited October 20, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Teutonic said: @Rigs What ship would you sail in the OW to fight players who are sailing in Wasa's? With the intention of fighting them and beating them. Currently I have absolutely 0 reason to sail anything but the wasa because of how overpowering it is against anything it would fight in the OW. The only ships I am afraid of are Bellonas and bigger, and none of them are fast enough to catch me. I am a new player and that's all that I got for bigger ships. Give me a nerf ship as a new player and I'll quit before I even consider to max crafting and get a lv.3 shipyard. You realize the purpose of Wasa? Be appealing and affordable 4th rate to retain and get new players into PB? This game will never retain new players because of some vocal established players that think like Ego the planet, already have it all and still just care for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Rigs said: I am a new player and that's all that I got for bigger ships. Give me a nerf ship as a new player and I'll quit before I even consider to max crafting and get a lv.3 shipyard. You realize the purpose of Wasa? Be appealing and affordable 4th rate to retain and get new players into PB? This game will never retain new players because of some vocal established players that think like Ego the planet, already have it all and still just care for themselves. New players don't play 4th rates. They're sailing brigs and cerbs and surprises. You are not a new player, you just want to play an easy ship instead of learning the strengths/weaknesses of all the other ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: I gave reasonable stats and logic. You gave a bias chart. Again... The speed/turning rate of a frigate. Broadside of a 3rd rate. Armor of a heavy 4th. 10 chasers and an amazing sailing profile for its size. It's OP as shite. The PVP meta currently is the most FOTM pandering meta I've ever seen. PVP is crap right now because of it. I gave you legit tools and charts available to public. Cry some more! Come back when you have some facts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said: New players don't play 4th rates. They're sailing brigs and cerbs and surprises. You are not a new player, you just want to play an easy ship instead of learning the strengths/weaknesses of all the other ships. I have played for almost a month and sailed the Wasa for over 2 weeks now. Not everyone it's like you to take years and still not make it to the last rank mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Just now, Rigs said: I have played for almost a month and sailed the Wasa for over 2 weeks now. Not everyone it's like you to take years and still not make it to the last rank mate. likewise yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 So again, if we don't change anything, what ship shoukd I take instead of the Wasa to beat a wasa? Whether you're new or not, what would be the ship, what would be your tactic? If the answer is either to be in a Wasa yourself then there is something inherently wrong with the balance of the ship and it should be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsman Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 50 minutes ago, Teutonic said: What ship would you sail in the OW to fight players who are sailing in Wasa's? With the intention of fighting them and beating them. Currently I have absolutely 0 reason to sail anything but the wasa because of how overpowering it is against anything it would fight in the OW. The only ships I am afraid of are Bellonas and bigger, and none of them are fast enough to catch me. People who deny that Wasa is OP are not worth responding to really... they're just a bunch of kids that don't care about balance and don't mind everyone only sailing Wasa. Only increasing it's BR or Mark cost won't do much either, other than restrict it more in mixed PB... i would still use only Wasa in OW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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