Let Agamemnon take Wasa place.

[victor]

6 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

which part of sentence "I don't care about your biased opinion" did you miss?

I missed each and every word of that sentence mate: you did not write at all that sentence before, so I couldn't catch it.

So, please, go on arguing with me, sunshine. You are entertaining after all.

Maybe you could be the terror of the sea in game, but - as far as forum PVP is concerned - you seem some like a loaded Trader brig without cannons.

Edited October 18, 2017 by victor

[victor]

4 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

You want to make Constitution super fast frigate in the game totally ignoring other frigates, your opinion is biased and illogical. Your sarcastic comments do not add anything smart into the discussion, no data, no details, no arguments. Who's looking dumb here?

Make an educated guess.

[Guest]

Or, you know, neither, because screw the entire goddamn "let's have this whole resource production, trading and crafting system in an open world and then for whatever reason ignore all of that and turn everything into simplistic Legends-style note redeemables instead".

[GreatTimo]

2 hours ago, George Washington said:

Some players suggested nerfing Wasa as it is OP, and I say why not just make it a PvP Note ship and do not touch specs. It's good where it is and it's a beautiful ship. This means it does not belong in PVE content. PvE content should use all less used ships, so new guys can sail them. 

  Make Agamemnon 150 PvE Mark ship and move Wasa to a regular PvP Note shelf. After long testing we can already witness that almost no one, and I repeat no one sailing Amamemnons. They are dead or dying breed. Wasa has became a new easily acquired pvp, fleet ship, and I believe if you look from game balance point of view you can't make the best 4th rate ship PvE mark exchange. So, please let Agamemnon take Wasa place and balance the game. Let new guys sail good 4th rate , but not the best one. Don't let ships die like that, Agamemnon deserves to be a PvE starting 4th rate. You could even make Ingermanland 150 PvE 1 PvP exchange to make it somewhat easy to acquire as well. 

Thanks and please vote. 

I would sail the Agamemnon now and forever , in legends though. I dont do open world anymore.

[Barbancourt]

1 hour ago, Rigs said:

It hurts the game to force the players into getting a level 3 shipyard and to the PvE content behind it. It hurts the new players, single players and small clan players. it hurts the game that crafters to have sole monopoly and dictate prices.

"Crafters"?  Everyone is a crafter.  There's no monopoly on something everyone can easily do. 

[Rigs]

43 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Or, you know, neither, because screw the entire goddamn "let's have this whole resource production, trading and crafting system in an open world and then for whatever reason ignore all of that and turn everything into simplistic Legends-style note redeemables instead".

I thought everyone was complaining there is no PvP....

I would say just turn it into sim city PvE server and spend 99 % in PvE and then 1% in PvP. Would be nice to add some plumbing to the shipyards as well cause why not.  

[sveno]

I just to put my 5 öre in to this thread:

The WW2/flightsim enthusiasts might seen the fact that units of different theaters of war have different mission profiles.
While some air units in the pacific theater were performing well for their purpose, they had trouble getting their job done efficiently in Europe.
That due to the fact, that in the pacific, the units were built for long range, slow ascend, long missions, against an enemy with first inferior equipment.
In Europe response times and raw fighting capabilities where key when it came to interceptors.

Now, with above in mind, you can imagine that ships in the Caribbean and ships in Europe had different setups.
Not only that, they also had different state of modernization. Also the mission statement was different, operating closer to the home country.
That is why some ships might have had less provision and therefor more guns and crew. Or they were lighter and therefor faster and more agile.

The Constitution was a great ship, so it definitely needs to be on par with the Wasa, some say it already is, many think it has no chance right now.
The Agamemnon, despite being Lord Nelsons favorite ship, was a troublesome ship. It couldn't compete with many European ships, due to its deep draft and troublesome service record needing constant dock service. 
The Ingermarland, well, is very old and by right not the dominant 4th rate, i think that she is balanced pretty well into the game.
The Wappen von Hamburg, despite also being an early ship, had the traits in real which she has in game, i consider the balance nailed.
Now the Wasa, it was one of the most modern frigates in our time frame, might be a bit over-modeled in game in terms of armor, but the rest is pretty nailed.

I would not put the Agamemnon on top of the 4th rate food chain, it looks nice on paper, but its service record does not indicate that position.
Nerf the Wasa's armor a bit (please no nerf hammer!), i think it is cool that it is available for marks, makes OW PvP more fluent.
Please DO NOT make a top-of-the-line ship available for PvP marks only; that would only skew OW PvP and making it less accessible for all.

Thanks for reading.

Edited October 18, 2017 by sveno

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, sveno said:

.

I would not put the Agamemnon on top of the 4th rate food chain, it looks nice on paper, but its service record does not indicate that position.

You don't get it, no one wants Agamemnon to be a top 4th rate ship. We want it to take Wasa place in pve Tab. Wasa should be pvp mark exchange + craft ship. Leave everything as it is, just switch places. Agamemnon is a good starting 4th rate for new guys and not Wasa. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by George Washington

[Rigs]

10 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

"Crafters"?  Everyone is a crafter.  There's no monopoly on something everyone can easily do. 

Oftentimes, generalizations are not entirely true, because there may be examples of individuals or situations wherein the generalization does not apply.

I'm not a crafter so there it's not everyone. You only know what you do and can only assume what everyone else does.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Rigs

[Rigs]

12 minutes ago, George Washington said:

You don't get it, no one wants Agamemnon to be a top 4th rate ship. We want it to take Wasa place in pve Tab. Wasa should be pvp mark exchange + craft ship. Leave everything as it is, just switch places. Agamemnon is a good starting 4th rate for new guys and not Wasa. 

No, I'm a new guy and I love and want Wasa and not Agamemnon, can I please have what I want? 

Please take some advice from below!

19 hours ago, jodgi said:

^This is the standard line.

"The economy needs it!"

Why is it unfair? How are we stopping you from engaging in the stuff you like? Ya'll can choke on a mountain of easy, menial, boring and time-consuming eco tasks as long as I don't have to. A little fore-play makes it better, I'm in for that, but you're like Laban trying to trick me into years of work before I can get into Rachel's pants.

I'll tell you what's unfair: I don't want to force anyone to do things they don't enjoy. You are free to circumvent any open world mechanic you want (OW hunting, RvR, PvP...). But you! You want to take away all the bones we've been thrown and make sure we play it your way; The Right Way... The eco way.

"If you want Rachel I'll force Leah on you because rules."

You can have Leah, I only love Rachel.

 

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Rigs said:

No, I'm a new guy and I love and want Wasa and not Agamemnon, can I please have what I want? 

Please take some advice from below!

 

Sometimes I think we should think with our heads and not with our sterns before introducing new content. Changes like these are almost impossible to implement because of what you say. People will cry and get angry. I agree. Any changes to Wasa now will cause outrage. 

Edited October 18, 2017 by George Washington

[Landsman]

The problem with Wasa isn't that it is available for marks - that is perfectly fine as this way at least everyone has access to the ship. So 2 ships out of all we have are available without crafting? Here is some advice for all you crafters to deal with it. Not everyone wants to hello kitty around in the crafting tab just to get a new ship. Not everyone has a tier 2 shipyard. You ***holes just want to sell overpriced crafted Wasas' to new players and casuals...

The only problem with Wasa is it is overperforming for a 4th rate and needs a slight nerf ( maybe armor nerf or remove 32pd guns for a harder nerf ) and its BR adjusted.

[Nelsons Barrel]

Wasa simply is a 3rd rate right now and should be classified as it.

[Teutonic]

3 hours ago, Eleven said:

Wasa simply is a 3rd rate right now and should be classified as it.

if nothing is changed except for BR for any updates in the future, I agree. the Wasa is, in the game, at 3rd rate capability.

[Barbancourt]

4 hours ago, Landsman said:

 You ***holes just want to sell overpriced crafted Wasas' to new players and casuals...

 

What a load of BS.  Ships are usually sold at bargain basement prices, particularly since ship capture was reintroduced.  Trader Brigs used to fetch over 100k, and now nobody will bother buying them when you can capture LGVs so easily.  LGVs are sitting dead into the wind all over the map.  I have LGV permits sitting in my warehouse that I was delighted to buy as soon as I could craft LGV to sell and sail, and right away they put ship capture back in and now they are useless.  Crafting ships isn't a money-making activity, especially when many of the best crafted ships are given free to clan members.  Half of the reason I craft ships is because it's the only way to get crafting XP so I can someday craft my own ships.  I'm losing money on it otherwise.  I bought and hauled over 10000 teak logs and thousands of various other logs, thousands of gold for furnishings, and have mined thousands of stone block and crafted thousands of provisions.  All of that is expense and hours of game time.  Don't bring out this BS idea that people are somehow trying to fleece other players. 

[Landsman]

7 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

What a load of BS.

You really wanna talk about BS? Oh boy, here we go again...

7 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Ships are usually sold at bargain basement prices, particularly since ship capture was reintroduced. 

Yeah i want to see you sell one of the best ships in the game at bargain basement prices to random people... Also can you capture 4th rates? Because i can't...

7 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Crafting ships isn't a money-making activity, especially when many of the best crafted ships are given free to clan members. 

Then why do you want to force people who don't want to do it to do it?

7 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Half of the reason I craft ships is because it's the only way to get crafting XP so I can someday craft my own ships.  I'm losing money on it otherwise.  I bought and hauled over 10000 teak logs and thousands of various other logs, thousands of gold for furnishings, and have mined thousands of stone block and crafted thousands of provisions.  All of that is expense and hours of game time.

I'm max craft level too and paid for it... i really don't see the problem. Nobody forces you to craft...

7 hours ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

Don't bring out this BS idea that people are somehow trying to fleece other players. 

Then don't mind people that dislike crafting to get their 2 ships out of all we have with marks, maybe? And yes people usually sell ships completely overpriced. You can easily figure out the production cost while considering the time investment for production to see this is true... 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Landsman

[Slim McSauce]

It'd be easier to just nerf the OP ship instead of buff all other ships around it wouldn't you say?

[victor]

1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

It'd be easier to just nerf the OP ship instead of buff all other ships around it wouldn't you say?

Nerfing Wasa's speed and armor will of course put it "on par" with the others 4th rate SOL (the aga and wap), but - I.e. - Consti will still be the shadow of the big frigate it used to be back in the days. What I mean is that in 4th rate class, we have 3 SOLs (that should be used mostly for Port balltes) and a big frigate (that should be the top OS PVP frigate), but fact is the big frigate has no advantage in the stats that are useful for OS PVP and should mark the difference with 4th rate SOLs (speed and turn rate).

And when someone screams that - that way Consti - will be faster than small frigate, I simply answer that in OS PVP - despite the super speed of endy and the firepower of wasa and consti - everyone and their cat still use surprise and pirate frigate, since those ships have a better sailing profile and a better turn rate. Simply put, I think that there would be nothing wrong if a consti could outrun (or match the speed of) some 5th rates downwind.

Edited October 19, 2017 by victor

[Slim McSauce]

27 minutes ago, victor said:

Nerfing Wasa's speed and armor will of course put it "on par" with the others 4th rate SOL (the aga and wap), but - I.e. - Consti will still be the shadow of the big frigate it used to be back in the days. What I mean is that in 4th rate class, we have 3 SOLs (that should be used mostly for Port balltes) and a big frigate (that should be the top OS PVP frigate), but fact is the big frigate has no advantage in the stats that are useful for OS PVP and should mark the difference with 4th rate SOLs (speed and turn rate).

And when someone screams that - that way Consti - will be faster than small frigate, I simply answer that in OS PVP - despite the super speed of endy and the firepower of wasa and consti - everyone and their cat still use surprise and pirate frigate, since those ships have a better sailing profile and a better turn rate. Simply put, I think that there would be nothing wrong if a consti could outrun (or match the speed of) some 5th rates downwind.

knocking the Wasa down to 12knts and raising it to 3rd rate would be enough imo. That's historically what it was and its got the guns of a 3rd rate. Trying to balance it to be a 4th rate is a futile effort. It'll either be useless or OP, and either way it doesn't fit in as a 4th rate. The Inger/Wappen work much better because they have actual weaknesses to their strengths. Wasa is 3rd rate firepower with 5th rate speed, 4th rate turning and armor, not to mention the sailing profile of the cerb.

Wasa has no business being this good at everything AND being a 4th rate AND one of the easiest ships to get. This isn't testbed, no need to let loose your lab grown genetically modified super "4th rate" to feast on our normal ships, devs.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Rigs]

12 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

knocking the Wasa down to 12knts and raising it to 3rd rate would be enough imo. That's historically what it was and its got the guns of a 3rd rate. Trying to balance it to be a 4th rate is a futile effort. It'll either be useless or OP, and either way it doesn't fit in as a 4th rate. The Inger/Wappen work much better because they have actual weaknesses to their strengths. Wasa is 3rd rate firepower with 5th rate speed, 4th rate turning and armor, not to mention the sailing profile of the cerb.

Wasa has no business being this good at everything AND being a 4th rate AND one of the easiest ships to get. This isn't testbed, no need to let loose your lab grown genetically modified super "4th rate" to feast on our normal ships, devs.

Looks bad mate, so you got spanked and you want the ship nerfed?

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Rigs said:

Looks bad mate, so you got spanked and you want the ship nerfed?

Wasa is a 3rd rate that was down tiered to 4th for whatever reason. 

Are you saying that it should remain with the base speed of a surprise, sailing profile of a cerb, turn rate of a endy and broadside of a 3rd rate? Because that's ludicrous 

Edited October 19, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson

[Rigs]

8 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Wasa is a 3rd rate that was down tiered to 4th for whatever reason. 

Are you saying that it should remain with the base speed of a surprise, sailing profile of a cerb, turn rate of a endy and broadside of a 3rd rate? Because that's ludicrous 

You know some are able to take down the Wasa with the Cerberus for example so what's that telling you?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Rigs said:

You know some are able to take down the Wasa with the Cerberus for example so what's that telling you?

any ship can take down any ship. This isn't news.

[Rigs]

Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

any ship can take down any ship. This isn't news.

So don't blame Wasa.

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, Rigs said:

So don't blame Wasa.

It's OP by stats.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson