Ser_Slack Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, Zoky said: Not only is it best 4th rate but its better then all but 1 5th rates at everything (surp is still better upwind) and its practically free Ya - pretty much. I just started playing again and Wasa is the answer to everything but lineship port battles. Boring as far as ship flavor is considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rigs said: I love the OW concept Me too. 5 minutes ago, Rigs said: one can only hope getting more players in Legends I don't worry about that at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custard Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 If the Wasa was craft only and the Connie was 150 CMs we would all be sailing Connies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigs Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Custard said: If the Wasa was craft only and the Connie was 150 CMs we would all be sailing Connies Make all ships notes and craftable, to each their own... Make that for mods, books, repairs as well, most want to reduce PvE grinding right? Edited October 17, 2017 by Rigs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesore Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, Rigs said: Make all ships notes and craftable, to each their own... Make that for mods, books, repairs as well, most want to reduce PvE grinding right? Are you serious? You want more players in Legends, so you decide to 'sabotage/troll' the OW-development? Is that how to understand that? It is a given that solo's and casuals will have a harder time replacing things they lost, the ones that put in the most time will always seem faster. Playing in an openworld includes planning ahead and coöperation. Just getting cheap ships, circumventing (travel, trade, interaction, etc.) any mechanic that makes the open world work ... you are basicaly playing another game, how is that fair or good for gameplay? Perhaps it is better to follow the reasoning for the 5th rate capturable AI ships: make the wasa, or other 'lifeboats', capturable in OW? They are still dirtcheap and easily replaced this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) WOW. Just came to check on the results and I'm shocked. I get not wanting your favorite ship that's super good getting nerfed, but its needed. The Wasa is as fast as a frigate, has 10 chasers and is a 4th rate with the broadside of a 3rd. This ship needs a nerf, come on guys. Edited October 17, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 25 minutes ago, Eyesore said: Just getting cheap ships, circumventing (travel, trade, interaction, etc.) any mechanic that makes the open world work ... you are basicaly playing another game, how is that fair or good for gameplay? ^This is the standard line. "The economy needs it!" Why is it unfair? How are we stopping you from engaging in the stuff you like? Ya'll can choke on a mountain of easy, menial, boring and time-consuming eco tasks as long as I don't have to. A little fore-play makes it better, I'm in for that, but you're like Laban trying to trick me into years of work before I can get into Rachel's pants. I'll tell you what's unfair: I don't want to force anyone to do things they don't enjoy. You are free to circumvent any open world mechanic you want (OW hunting, RvR, PvP...). But you! You want to take away all the bones we've been thrown and make sure we play it your way; The Right Way... The eco way. "If you want Rachel I'll force Leah on you because rules." You can have Leah, I only love Rachel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesore Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, jodgi said: ^This is the standard line. "The economy needs it!" Why is it unfair? How are we stopping you from engaging in the stuff you like? Ya'll can choke on a mountain of easy, menial, boring and time-consuming eco tasks as long as I don't have to. A little fore-play makes it better, I'm in for that, but you're like Laban trying to trick me into years of work before I can get into Rachel's pants. I'll tell you what's unfair: I don't want to force anyone to do things they don't enjoy. You are free to circumvent any open world mechanic you want (OW hunting, RvR, PvP...). But you! You want to take away all the bones we've been thrown and make sure we play it your way; The Right Way... The eco way. "If you want Rachel I'll force Leah on you because rules." You can have Leah, I only love Rachel. Economy is one thing. The noteships don't need much effort to get (atm, that may change or not), while a crafted one does need more time-investment/teamwork and/or trading and/or whatever. So which loss hurts the most? I'm sure you can see that the noteships can quickly become 'overpowered', especially if you can just stack them and use them wherever and with whatever woods you want. Noteships being top of the lineships makes this imbalance even bigger. As you said earlier, the noteships were some kind of comebackmechanic? Why would it make sense for those ships to be the best in game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Slim Jimmerson said: WOW. Just came to check on the results and I'm shocked. I get not wanting your favorite ship that's super good getting nerfed, but its needed. The Wasa is as fast as a frigate, has 10 chasers and is a 4th rate with the broadside of a 3rd. This ship needs a nerf, come on guys. Balancing doesn't mean jack shit to PvE players who only see a cheap ship with which they can ravage class 4 fleet missions with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Eyesore said: So which loss hurts the most? I'm not so big on loss, PvP frequency is inversely proportional to perceived pain and fear of loss... Possibly exponentially. 1 hour ago, Eyesore said: Why would it make sense for those ships to be the best in game? Easily fixed and I bet they will. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinFX Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) I voted No. The Wasa does not need nerfing; people complaining about its speed need to realise it's no faster than the Connie(actually slower than the Connie once you put standard set of guns on!) and it's not as fast as the Hermione or the Surprise. Any of those 3 ships should be able to chase down a Wasa, and lets not forget that the Renomee and Endymion have significantly higher speed ratings than the Wasa as well. As for it's armament, the devs have already nerfed the Wasa from what it was historically originally built to carry; 36 pounders on the main gun deck! The Wasa was designed to be a fast, manouvreable, heavy hitting ship that could compete with the prevailing 74's and that's what we have in game! Furthermore the Wasa in game does not have a great turn rate, so why the call for nerfing? There are plenty of ways for creative and skilled captains to neutralize a Wasa in pvp! When I go out in a Wasa looking for pvp there are captains that are skilled enough to neutralize me and there are those that aren't; which tells me the real issue is around the skills or approach to the battle of the players, not that the Wasa is in itself OP. The real question is in regards 4th rate port battles and the Wasa's classification. Should it's BR be changed since its broadside weight is higher than the 3rd rate in game and has side armour approx equivalent to the 3rd rate? Therefore should the Wasa be re-rated as a 3rd rate thus excluding it from 4th rate PBs? Personally I'd say Yes. We have plenty of different 4th rates in game already providing options for 4th rate PB ships and personally I don't mind if they change the BR/status of the Wasa to a 3rd rate. To me this makes much more sense for the game than nerfing the Wasa's armament/speed etc. Hopefully 3rd rates will have more of a role in game if we get changes to the PB system along BR or ship classes lines to get more variety of ships in Line ship PBs. I have advocated for the ship class idea in this thread: Edited October 18, 2017 by PaladinFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Just make a 3rd rate like it is in current setup and leave it be and make it something we have to build not a Economy Bypass ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 If you think the Wasa should be raised to 3rd rate status then vote yes. That's a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptVonGunn Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 49 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said: If you think the Wasa should be raised to 3rd rate status then vote yes. That's a nerf No it isn't a Nerf is changing it's stats in a significant way.. ie replacing 32s with 24s ect, reducing Hull Side HP ect. Changing it from 4th rate to 3rd rate is a re-balance and what is supposed to happen in Alpha/Beta test levels of games when he ships is fine but in the wrong spot/tier ect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, CaptVonGunn said: No it isn't a Nerf is changing it's stats in a significant way.. ie replacing 32s with 24s ect, reducing Hull Side HP ect. Changing it from 4th rate to 3rd rate is a re-balance and what is supposed to happen in Alpha/Beta test levels of games when he ships is fine but in the wrong spot/tier ect well for the sake of the poll, lets say changing from 4th to 3rd rate is a nerf. I'd rather the Wasa be a niche 3rd than an OP 4th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinFX Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 This poll is about nerfing the Wasa, ie reducing its stats. Changing the Wasa BR to 3rd rate is a different poll/question altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 18, 2017 Author Share Posted October 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, PaladinFX said: This poll is about nerfing the Wasa, ie reducing its stats. Changing the Wasa BR to 3rd rate is a different poll/question altogether. You can consider anything that decreases effectiveness a nerf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 18, 2017 Share Posted October 18, 2017 Whether it's nerfed via stat reduction or class change is just semantics, it's a poll about whether it needs to be changed, not what that change is going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cavanaugh Posted October 19, 2017 Share Posted October 19, 2017 1) reducing calibers on gun decks would be a significant nerf, but not the one that is needed. More importantly, and on a tangent, why is Wasa more heavily armed than the basic 3rd rate? #buff3rd 2) the real issue is it's sailing. It tacks far to well, it's too fast for what it is, it turns to well, and the physics are just borked to hell (I've tacked through the wind missing the top 1/3rd of my main mast and all but bottom 1/3rd of foremast without dropping below 3.5kn) if the wasa lost a kn off its base speed and had a sailing profile more akin to the L'Ocean than the Pfrig, and if its borked tacking was fixed, it would be able to fill the role of super heavy 4th rate, rather than being a bellona with several jet engines strapped to the weather deck 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr RideZ Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Historical ships are ok. if it had 32pd cannons, then it had 32pd cannons. It had some other weaknesses? Could it have other weaknesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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