6th-Rate plan challenge

[Haratik]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Montgomery_(1776)

Probably build to Joshua Humphreys's standard design for the 24-gun frigates for a vessel 120' 6" (g.d) x 32' 6" x 10' 6" (h) mounting 24 x 9-pounder guns.

Nothing else known about it except it was one of the original 13 frigates authorized by the Continental Congress.  @Talos might know more about it or the design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Queen_of_France_(1777)

This one as well.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Haratik

[LeBoiteux]

Thx for posting. We need US plans in those challenges (I know I'm an heretic in the neighborhood but I'm fine with it) 

7 hours ago, Haratik said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Montgomery_(1776)

Probably build to Joshua Humphreys's standard design for the 24-gun frigates for a vessel 120' 6" (g.d) x 32' 6" x 10' 6" (h) mounting 24 x 9-pounder guns.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong :

24 x 9-pdr = 108 pdr = in-game Requin > bw (Pandora) --> outside of the gaps of the 6th-Rate Challenge + gap soon filled by Le Requin.

Plan ?

7 hours ago, Haratik said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Queen_of_France_(1777)

This one as well.

Wiki says : 28 guns = 24 x 6-pdr

Some additional info on her armament ?

Plan ?

Edited October 19, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[Haratik]

Nothing more than that to go on atm, as my post read, I'm waiting on Talos to see if he has more extensive information.

[LeBoiteux]

15 hours ago, Malachi said:

Dutch Proserpina

built 1821, length 128 Amsterdam feet. 20 24-pound carronades (or 6-pounders) plus 2 8-pounders.

10 hours ago, SteelSandwich said:

In addition to Malachi's post about the Proserpina

3D hull model':

https://skfb.ly/UIAI

 

 

 

[LeBoiteux]

15 hours ago, Malachi said:

Proposal for a danish 18*8-pounder frigate

length 100 danish feet.

[LeBoiteux]

Summing up of the proposals

Gap 1 : Snow (HMS Ontario) - Ratlesnake heavy

Gap 2 : Ratlesnake heavy - USS Niagara

Gap 3 : USS Niagara - HMS Pandora

[Talos]

On 10/18/2017 at 10:33 PM, Haratik said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Montgomery_(1776)

Probably build to Joshua Humphreys's standard design for the 24-gun frigates for a vessel 120' 6" (g.d) x 32' 6" x 10' 6" (h) mounting 24 x 9-pounder guns.

Nothing else known about it except it was one of the original 13 frigates authorized by the Continental Congress.  @Talos might know more about it or the design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Queen_of_France_(1777)

This one as well.

Alas I don't have that much on it, though I did look. My speciality is the Federal Navy! While I haven't found a good set of plans for that design, I did find a few other ships by him with similar dimensions, including USS Congress, made by the same shipyard at the same time, Trumbull, and Effingham. Virginia is probably the closest ship I have plans for, she has nearly identical dimensions to Congress,  building at the same shipyard as Montgomery at the same time. Congress (and Virginia) are a couple feet wider than Montgomery, probably why they have 12-pdrs and she only as 9-pdrs.

 

Also, can I just say that as a history geek, I keep gritting my teeth seeing an 18-gun flush decked sloop or corvette called a 6th rate! Driving me batty. Also on the tables I would label the total broadside weights as "pds" instead of "pdr" to avoid confusion with the cannon shot weight. I was going to suggest the Porcupines in a similar class, but Pandora covers that already, which is great because I love those.

 

As an alternative to Phoenix, I would suggest the Banterer-class 22-gun post-ships, which can be dual nation and cover both the British ships and the American USS Cyane, taken during the war. They were built with 22 x 9-pdrs on the gun deck and a few 6-pdrs and carronades up top (those could easily be diminished). They have an upgrade route with 32-pdr carronades replacing the 9-pdrs too. Other options include the Danish Lille Belt and the French Bonne Citoyenne.

 

 

[LeBoiteux]

4 hours ago, Talos said:

Also, can I just say that as a history geek, I keep gritting my teeth seeing an 18-gun flush decked sloop or corvette called a 6th rate! Driving me batty. Also on the tables I would label the total broadside weights as "pds" instead of "pdr" to avoid confusion with the cannon shot weight. I was going to suggest the Porcupines in a similar class, but Pandora covers that already, which is great because I love those.

'Batty' ? To that extent ? As a French and non-naval geek, I might have been quite "couldn't-care-less" about the naming of this challenge .

First, I thought that working on the 3 NA gaps between the Snow and HMS Pandora together could be interesting and fun. Secondly, the last time I checked navalactionwiki, all the ships between the Brig and the Niagara were said to be in-game 6th-Rates (I haven't checked it in game). And finally, I had to find a name for this challenge. 

Thx about the 'pdr' / 'pds' thing.  

4 hours ago, Talos said:

As an alternative to Phoenix, I would suggest the Banterer-class 22-gun post-ships, which can be dual nation and cover both the British ships and the American USS Cyane, taken during the war. They were built with 22 x 9-pdrs on the gun deck and a few 6-pdrs and carronades up top (those could easily be diminished). They have an upgrade route with 32-pdr carronades replacing the 9-pdrs too. Other options include the Danish Lille Belt and the French Bonne Citoyenne.

Please, post (if you wish).

Edited October 21, 2017 by LeBoiteux

[Talos]

4 hours ago, LeBoiteux said:

'Batty' ? To that extent ? As a French and non-naval geek, I might have been quite "couldn't-care-less" about the naming of this challenge .

First, I thought that working on the 3 NA gaps between the Snow and HMS Pandora together could be interesting and fun. Secondly, the last time I checked navalactionwiki, all the ships between the Brig and the Niagara were said to be in-game 6th-Rates (I haven't checked it in game). And finally, I had to find a name for this challenge. 

Thx about the 'pdr' / 'pds' thing.  

Please, post (if you wish).

No, no, this wasn't batty about you, but how the game categorizes things. In the Royal Navy, the most prominent rating system in the English-speaking world, 6th rate in our time frame covers essentially two kinds of ships, the 28-gun frigate and the 20/22-gun post ship, the smallest vessel commanded by a Post Captain. Below that is the  "unrated" ship-sloop and brig-sloop, schooners, and other miscellaneous vessels.

 

I'll post some for this later, I was just typing that reply on my cell phone and didn't have my references on hand.

Edited October 21, 2017 by Talos

[Malachi]

here´s Lille Belt:

 

 

 

And a drawing of her breaking up in 1819:

 

http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/110223.html

Dimensions:

length p/p        112' 4''  (danish fod)

breadth             28' 9''

draught aft       12' 9''

 

Crew 173

 

16* 32-pound carronades, 4  8-pounders

 

sister ships: Fylla  (1802), Diana (1804)

 

Awesome little ship

Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi

[LeBoiteux]

2 hours ago, Talos said:

'll post some for this later, I was just typing that reply on my cell phone and didn't have my references on hand.

Great !!

[Malachi]

Another danish 6th rate, the Hvide Ørn of 1797:

 

 

https://secure2.pbase.com/maritimmodellklubb/hvideornhorten

 

 

 

 

 

Dimensions:

length                   124' (danish fod)

breadth                 32' 6''

Depth in hold       16' 2''

 

Crew 180

24 8-pounders

Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi

[LeBoiteux]

3 hours ago, Malachi said:

here´s Lille Belt:

16* 32-pound carronades, 4  8-pounders

Suggestion for in-game armament : 20 x 9-pdr (90 pds = USS Niagara) ?

1 hour ago, Malachi said:

Another danish 6th rate, the Hvide Ørn of 1797:

24 8-pounders

Suggestion for in-game armament : 24 x 9-pdr (108 pds > HMS Pandora) ?

Nice ships