Reinforcement zones

[Guest]

I'd like to suggest

 

remove the reinforcementzones.

[Liq]

@Sunleader

oh wait. He put us all on ignore

He'll find this thread sooner or later anyway

[Hawkwood]

1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

I'd like to suggest

 

remove the reinforcementzones.

And what is the benefit of it? It is a bit annoying now, everybody is spamming Forum with "lack of PVP", "remove safety zones", and such.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Cortez said:

And what is the benefit of it? It is a bit annoying now, everybody is spamming Forum with "lack of PVP", "remove safety zones", and such.

What's the benefit of the reinforcementzones?

Just let the 7th-4th rate missions spawn in the green cap area.. Then it would only be crafters and PvP'ers that moved outside of the green zones anyway.. Atm everyone is going pirate just to get some PvP..

[Ravern]

13 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

Atm everyone is going pirate just to get some PvP..

Sure the safe zone could be adjusted, but what's your reason for its removal?

 

[Landsman]

1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

remove the reinforcementzones.

I think they are good to help new players and the whiny carebears out... but the real problem is they are WAY too big...

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Ravern said:

Sure the safe zone could be adjusted, but what's your reason for its removal?

 

I dislike magic

[Teutonic]

They reinforcement zones should be smaller.

Also after a certain rank, players should be unable to call for reinforcements.

But even if these are my opinions I think overall the reinforcement zone is a good thing. 

I firmly believe it is better to add more bonuses and incentives to leave the safety zone then it is to make the safety zone worse.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Teutonic

[CaptVonGunn]

4 hours ago, Bearwall said:

I dislike magic

So you dont use Bow Figures or most of the Upgrades?

Edited October 10, 2017 by CaptVonGunn

[Sunleader]

Ha. I dislike Magic as well.

It makes no Sense at all that a Player even needs to call Reinforcements around its Capitol.

Tons of NPC Warfleets should be around the Capitol of a Nation.

Abd this is a War. NPC Fleets should immediately Attack any Enemy that dares getting close to their Waters

And if an Enemy Player comes in Sight of a Port the Port should instantly Spawn an NPC Fleet of 5-10 Frigates hunting down the Invader.

Moreover. NPC Fleets should immediately join Battles they come across to Fight for their Faction.

[Sir William Hargood]

The reinforcement zones is a reaction to previous mechanics that protected "gankers" outside Nation Capitals. And yes maybe the pendulum has swung too far. In my opinion the insta-close battle instances was equally stupid magic too. So you want reinforcement zones removed? Okay fine...then bring back 5 minute battle timers.... or better yet...leave them open...makes for much better realism anyway. Then you may as well turn back the clock 18 months on ROE, those were happy days and PVP was not a problem...

Throw the doors open and stop protecting players with silly magic mechanics...just skill counts...and if you want to kick the lion in the nuts...go ahead...but don't cry when he bites you...

Edited October 10, 2017 by Sir William Hargood

[Slim McSauce]

When/if the game gets more populated reinforcement zones will become redundant since there will be constantly people coming in an out of port. Anyone who goes anywhere near a capital will get immediately jumped by 30 players.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

When/if the game gets more populated reinforcement zones will become redundant since there will be constantly people coming in an out of port. Anyone who goes anywhere near a capital will get immediately jumped by 30 players.

People didn't stop defending their own territorial waters because there was a lack of players (that's why it was an issue even for the most congested and populous of nations), people stopped defending because 90% of the time trying to defend your own waters and hunt down the attackers would turn into 1+ hour chase scenes with the current repair system + speed meta, and even then often end inconclusive.

[TommyShelby]

3 hours ago, Sir William Hargood said:

The reinforcement zones is a reaction to previous mechanics that protected "gankers" outside Nation Capitals. And yes maybe the pendulum has swung too far. In my opinion the insta-close battle instances was equally stupid magic too. So you want reinforcement zones removed? Okay fine...then bring back 5 minute battle timers.... or better yet...leave them open...makes for much better realism anyway. Then you may as well turn back the clock 18 months on ROE, those were happy days and PVP was not a problem...

Throw the doors open and stop protecting players with silly magic mechanics...just skill counts...and if you want to kick the lion in the nuts...go ahead...but don't cry when he bites you...

How is Never Closing Battle Instances realistic in any way? The "What you see is what you get RoE" is the closest you get to a realistic scenario with the way the game is designed.

[Sir William Hargood]

8 minutes ago, TommyShelby said:

How is Never Closing Battle Instances realistic in any way? The "What you see is what you get RoE" is the closest you get to a realistic scenario with the way the game is designed.

And 2 min battle timers were realistic? I distinctly remember the time it took to reverse course to help one your teammates who was behind you was too long to get into that battle to help him...there's frustration for you. 5 minute battle timers in my opinion was fine, then came two, then instant closed battles with small drag circles...now we have huge reinforcement zones.

I joined a battle yesterday, with the joining circle positions as they are it took me more than 20 minutes to join the action...if the instance was open longer you would invariably join further away...by the time the battle was an hour old you would join an hours sail time away from the action anyway...so I do not see any problem here with keeping the instances open...I'd rather have that than these insane reinforcement zones...

 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, rediii said:

It was like that before the multiple rrpair patch aswell. Actually it was never different.

1. Take the ship with best speed at a specific point of sail

2. never get caught. Ever. Only get annoyed by people running after you for >30 minutes

 

 

Keep the reinforcement zones. Makd them smaller and give a reason to leave them

Would have to disagree.

Sure, it has always taken time, but when it was 1/1 repairs it was often in the range of taking 20-30 minutes to chase people down for the kill (or bad enough of a tag to not even bother) and ended with the threat taken care of, and plentiful of ships that stood a decent chance of catching up and act as tacklers (instead of 15 knot chaser vs 15 knot chaser fights), and not having a speedcap meant that you were limited in your ship selection if you wanted guaranteed escape (unlike now where you can be both).

That was manageable enough for people to bother, and knowing whether or not the enemy had used up his one and only sail repair was enough to encourage people to finish the job.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Guest

[TommyShelby]

1 hour ago, Sir William Hargood said:

And 2 min battle timers were realistic? I distinctly remember the time it took to reverse course to help one your teammates who was behind you was too long to get into that battle to help him...there's frustration for you. 5 minute battle timers in my opinion was fine, then came two, then instant closed battles with small drag circles...now we have huge reinforcement zones.

I joined a battle yesterday, with the joining circle positions as they are it took me more than 20 minutes to join the action...if the instance was open longer you would invariably join further away...by the time the battle was an hour old you would join an hours sail time away from the action anyway...so I do not see any problem here with keeping the instances open...I'd rather have that than these insane reinforcement zones...

 

Honestly, i can't be bothered going into detail about this. This discussion has been had hundreds of times by now... 

In short, due to the huge disrepancy between OW Speed and Battle Speed the only thing close to realistic is "What you see is what you get" Rules of Engagement. 

The distance you can sail in 2 minutes on the OW is 10x times higher than what you can do in battle. (I don't know if its 10x, 5x or 200x. All i know is there is a huge difference). 
Let me find my favorite quotes when it comes to this topic.

 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, CaptVonGunn said:

So you dont use Bow Figures or most of the Upgrades?

I use them but if you've read my comments on those you'd know that I simply fail to see how the hum sacrifice of five young daughters should make a ship go faster...

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Ha. I dislike Magic as well.

It makes no Sense at all that a Player even needs to call Reinforcements around its Capitol.

Tons of NPC Warfleets should be around the Capitol of a Nation.

Abd this is a War. NPC Fleets should immediately Attack any Enemy that dares getting close to their Waters

And if an Enemy Player comes in Sight of a Port the Port should instantly Spawn an NPC Fleet of 5-10 Frigates hunting down the Invader.

Moreover. NPC Fleets should immediately join Battles they come across to Fight for their Faction.

To some extent I agree.. NPC fleets should attack players of enemy nations. There are however too many and they are way, way too big. Historically DK/NG only had 1 frigate stationed at the port of Charlotte Amalie (in peacetime, a squadron of 2-3 in wartime and most of the time the two extra frigates were convoying local shipping). Even the largest navy in the world (GB) didn't have that many frigate squadrons in the carribean and only small contingents of SoLs in wartime. In general the SoL battlefleets currently in OW are simply staggeringly too large.. The entire DK/NG fleet (in 1790' and untill 1807 the 4th largest fleet in the world in regards to SoL) only comprised of 23 ships of the line and only a handfull of those were equivalent to the british 2nd rates (if we take the british rating system as the guideline, which we prob shouldn't since the most influential fleets in the world in regard to designs and tactics were the dutch and the french). So in short: Kill the NPC battlefleets as well.. If players wants safe waters - let them make them so.

[Sir William Hargood]

and so the toxicity continues...little wonder this game development progresses so incredibly slowly and the player populations have bled away so amazingly...toxicity...in game and in forums...

[seanjo]

The safe zones encourage new players, which this game badly needs. Reward PvP, even if you lose, some gained XP and gold would offset the loss of what might be a person's only valuable asset.

[Rigs]

1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

To some extent I agree.. NPC fleets should attack players of enemy nations. There are however too many and they are way, way too big. Historically DK/NG only had 1 frigate stationed at the port of Charlotte Amalie (in peacetime, a squadron of 2-3 in wartime and most of the time the two extra frigates were convoying local shipping). Even the largest navy in the world (GB) didn't have that many frigate squadrons in the carribean and only small contingents of SoLs in wartime. In general the SoL battlefleets currently in OW are simply staggeringly too large.. The entire DK/NG fleet (in 1790' and untill 1807 the 4th largest fleet in the world in regards to SoL) only comprised of 23 ships of the line and only a handfull of those were equivalent to the british 2nd rates (if we take the british rating system as the guideline, which we prob shouldn't since the most influential fleets in the world in regard to designs and tactics were the dutch and the french). So in short: Kill the NPC battlefleets as well.. If players wants safe waters - let them make them so.

Realistically speaking who would hunt in national capital waters and get away with it?

Besides that it's a game.

The players that you find inside the safe zones are either new, leveling, recovering or do not have time to PvP and you want to attack them?

Is that because there is not fun without ruining somebody else's day?

I would recommend you doing this, make yourself visible around national waters and you will find your PvP.

Regarding players defending their own waters see below. Not only that but more so who defends the new and/or single player or small clans? Who cares, they probably spies or care bears not important enough to matter. 

6 hours ago, Aegir said:

People didn't stop defending their own territorial waters because there was a lack of players (that's why it was an issue even for the most congested and populous of nations), people stopped defending because 90% of the time trying to defend your own waters and hunt down the attackers would turn into 1+ hour chase scenes with the current repair system + speed meta, and even then often end inconclusive.

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Rigs

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Bearwall said:

To some extent I agree.. NPC fleets should attack players of enemy nations. There are however too many and they are way, way too big. Historically DK/NG only had 1 frigate stationed at the port of Charlotte Amalie (in peacetime, a squadron of 2-3 in wartime and most of the time the two extra frigates were convoying local shipping). Even the largest navy in the world (GB) didn't have that many frigate squadrons in the carribean and only small contingents of SoLs in wartime. In general the SoL battlefleets currently in OW are simply staggeringly too large.. The entire DK/NG fleet (in 1790' and untill 1807 the 4th largest fleet in the world in regards to SoL) only comprised of 23 ships of the line and only a handfull of those were equivalent to the british 2nd rates (if we take the british rating system as the guideline, which we prob shouldn't since the most influential fleets in the world in regard to designs and tactics were the dutch and the french). So in short: Kill the NPC battlefleets as well.. If players wants safe waters - let them make them so.

 

Will never Happen.

You see Mate. Something I already said several times before in other Topics.

Safezones do not Affect PvP or even Piracy at all.

Because there is neither Traderoutes nor Conquerable Ports in the Safezone. (Pls not I consider it a Bug that the Safezones sometimes cover a Capturable Port and the Devs already said that they are going to change something there)

So aside from RPKing and Griefing New Players and People who just do PvE Missions. There is not really anything to do in the Area of the Safezones.

 

Worse. There is normally no PvP Players in these Areas at all. Because the PvP Players have their own Ports they Conquered and thus have no reason to be in the Capitol Area.

Leaving this Area Empty and Undefended and without the Safezones making new Players and PvE Mission Players Free Kills.

 

 

We did have the time when no Safezones were apllied. And we also had other attempts like the Battle remaining open for Defenders with no Time Limit etc etc.

But the Fact is. All of it was an Catastrophe and resulted in the vast Majority of the Players just leaving the Game entirely.

Nobody bothered Defending new Players. And Nobody bothered to even remotely Protect Traders or PvE Players. These Players hence were just Ganked and RPKed and thus Quit the Game.

Thats why the Devs themselves said. That this has Failed and is Impossible because the Game cannot be Sustained like this. Hence they Added Safezones.

 

 

Players will NEVER be able to mount an Policing System in a Game. Which is not really strange. Because for an halfwat Efficient Protection. You would need to Coordinate 24/7 Patrolling of the Area and have 24/7 Squads at the Ready to Deal with Ganking Squads.  Needless to say that for an Attack on Enemy Waters you need to have the Group for just 1-2 Hours hence making it extremely easy to Overpower any kind of Player Mounted Defenses.....

So leaving it to Players to make Safe Waters will never happen and never Work. Leaving this kind of Task to the Playerbase will always only Result in Complete Freedom for RPKs, Gankers and Griefers and has an 100% Chance to Result in the Slow but Sure Death of the Game because New Players dont get a Foot in the Door and anything but Hardcore PvPers will leave the Server sooner or later.

[admin]

3 new nations not only will not have reinforcement zones but also they won't have capital protected waters (extremely hard difficulty level). In addition to that their capital will be capturable (because they start with no capital at all)>

This will provide the option for captains who dislike reinforcement zones to re-roll to the nation that does not have any protection and defend their main capitals, rookies, bases themselves. 

This will bring the balance to the universe, captains who love reinforcement zones can send the captains who don't like them to join Prussia, Russia, or Commonwealth colonial navy. 

current reinforcement zones size is indeed too big though. It could be adjusted a bit.

[Medniy Sandal]

14 minutes ago, admin said:

текущий размер зон усиления действительно слишком большой. Я мог бы немного поправиться.

Хорошая новость. Вопрос - когда? И зачем вообще вводились охранные зоны, если перед последним патчем было не более 500 игроков... Каких игроков защищали этими зонами?

Good news. The question is when? And why did they enter security zones, if there were not more than 500 players before the last patch ... What players were protected by these zones?