Poll: Port battle limitations - formerly known as port battle diversity.

[Rigge1988]

Meh. We've tested lots of things in the past why not try this aswell?

If it's totally crap devs will revert to what we had before or try something else.

 

Put UI high on that list next. Many newcomers dislike the current UI.

Some even quit because of it.

[Hawkwood]

1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

It may be different for EU but on Global starting a port battle has now become the sure fire way to get your opponent out of their ports to fight you.

So it has become less about taking and owning the port ( although taking it is always nice) and more about just getting garaunteed PvP for the day.

If that means a fleet of equal size comes out to screen our fleet, then all the better, it's what we came there for. I'm not saying that I don't see what you're worried about, i just don't think it will be as big as a problem as you make it out to be. I believe the thought is to allow those small clans to feel like they can successfully defend their ports they already own instead of writing it as a loss because they don't have 25 players for defense.

I know a lot of ports generally are decided before they even start due to needing 25 players. If we can allow groups of varying sizes to engage in the rvr activities with varying fleet compositions to allow for more enjoyable differences that would be awesome.

I believe there should also be an option to increase br. So for example, you can both increase or decrease the br limit by 25% instead of 50%.

If you are allowed to have allies in your nation, and maybe introducing allied clans from another nations, it shouldn`t be a problem to defend with 25 as well.Right?

They just need to be there, that`s all.

[Teutonic]

25 minutes ago, Cortez said:

If you are allowed to have allies in your nation, and maybe introducing allied clans from another nations, it shouldn`t be a problem to defend with 25 as well.Right?

They just need to be there, that`s all.

true.

although on Global we have the problem where there isn't even 10 people in a Nation even with all clans in that nation "allied."

Which is why I advocate for giving the option for clans to ally other clans that are in different nations.

[Salty Dog.]

 

2 hours ago, Teutonic said:

Which is why i also advocate for a ship rebalance along with this.

Wasa - 250 br

3rd - 350 br

Bellona - 400 br

When it should honestly be more like this WITH a nerf to the ships cannon loadout (9/18/24 or 9/18/32 instead of the wasa's current 9/24/32).

Wasa - 300 br

3rd - 320 br

Bellona - 400 br

In general though all ships need at least a quick look at them. Br changes, cannon loadout updates, and stat adjustments.

I've been a advocate for mixed port battle fleets for a long time... it just seems so silly that we have a fleet of "Vics"  or "Santis'" fighting each other.  That being said, I think the next challenge will be to to find a point where a fleet of 10 first rates are a fair match to a fleet of 25.  I think that a lot of BR adjustments will need to be made to find the sweet spot where 10 first rates have a equal chance of beating a larger fleet.

So the question becomes... what fleet of 25 would be a fair fight to 10 first rates? 

Do we only look at broadside weight?  That may be a good place to start, but other factors need to be considered as well.  Firepower, maneuverability, ability to take damage are all factors.

[Teutonic]

27 minutes ago, Salty Dog on Global said:

 

I've been a advocate for mixed port battle fleets for a long time... it just seems so silly that we have a fleet of "Vics"  or "Santis'" fighting each other.  That being said, I think the next challenge will be to to find a point where a fleet of 10 first rates are a fair match to a fleet of 25.  I think that a lot of BR adjustments will need to be made to find the sweet spot where 10 first rates have a equal chance of beating a larger fleet.

So the question becomes... what fleet of 25 would be a fair fight to 10 first rates? 

Do we only look at broadside weight?  That may be a good place to start, but other factors need to be considered as well.  Firepower, maneuverability, ability to take damage are all factors.

I agree, but I also believe that coordination of the team wins more than just having a bigger ship, or more guns/ships.

[CaptVonGunn]

On 10/9/2017 at 8:54 AM, z4ys said:

We have to find a way that it is hard/impossible to find a meta to certain br. Otherwise we have different ships in one battle but everytime the same setup.

But clear yes to both questions.

It needs to be Rate based NOT BR based.. Like actual fleets were...  ie...

 For each 1st or 2nd rate you bring You have to have 3 3rd/4th rates in your Fleet. If it is a Mid sized PB(currently called 4th rate) For every 4th rate you would need 3 5th rates (or smaller)... 1st and 2nd Rates were Squadron Command ships..  4th Rates or  older 3rds were Frigate Squadron Command Ships..   But requiring a spread in the structure makes building a Meta a LOT tougher

[la Touche-Treville]

I've been asking for this for the last 18 months so yes, you have my full support on this.

Next step will be giving ships modulated XP depending on role they play in PBs:

- SOLs: Damage dealers and damage soakers -> higher XP coefficient  linked to damage dealt and damage received

- Frigates (5-4): Ships that play a role in hampering crew and sails -> higher XP coefficient  linked to rigging damage and crew damage dealt

- All others: Would love to see a scouting role here were smaller ships are sent as reconnaissance ships to spot ennemy fleet. Not applicable yet however. Rigging damage and tagging XP for now

[Darayavahus]

And Allow Niagara's to join shallow PB's

[Knobby]

I like the idea, and am willing to try it. HOWEVER, this has no chance to work unless we get some kind of lobby for PBs. It is crucial that commanders have some control over which players/ships enter the PB. Just setting friendly clans is no solution, because there is still zero control over which ships enter.

 

[IndianaGeoff]

Don't let clans set limits, but have varying limits at port.  A dozen sizes instead of 3.

[Daguse]

Adding PB diversity is one of the best things that can be done. I may have to start playing again.

[Maculosa]

yes and yes, for sure!

[admin]

we started to work on the feature

please propose numbers and ideas on the max and min limits if you have any.

[admin]

3 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Also I strongly suggest to look at the BR of the tournament made by Liq.

perhaps you can post the elaborations out here

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Rickard said:

I would propose for Deepwater and Regional capital port battles: 

- 1 or 2 1st Rates ships 

- 2 or 3 2nd Rates ships

- 3 or 4 3rd Rates ships

- 4 or 5 4th Rates ships

- 5 or 6 5th Rates ships

 15 to 20 higher Rate ships can be used(1st Rates to 5th Rates)

- no regulations on 6th Rates ships and lower

for Shallow water port battles the same but starting with 6th Rates:

- 10 to 15 6th Rates ships 

- 10 or 15 7th Rates ships

a system like this (not this exact system) would make sure that 1st to 3rd rate ships will become less important. I would also suggest changing the big fleets on the OW so that they would have less 1st to 3rd rates and more 4th to 6th rates.

this is taken from a previous post in another topic about mixed fleet battles, in the time that people where still sceptical about this idea because they thought that only A lobby system could accomplish this level of organisation.

 

The issue with limiting each ship class is that fleet composition becomes frustrating. I think admin was talking about a max BR value, and we can choose any fleet composition that doesn't exceed the BR limit. 

[George Washington]

@admin, could you be more specific on what are you looking for. Combinations of ships for shallow, 4th rate and 1st rate PBS? Give me more info and I will see what I can do. Also, is this BR chart correct? If not please provide one, so we can use it to construct combinations.  

 

 BR chart. 

Lynx                                           20    
Cutter (Alert)                            30    
Privateer                                   30    
Pickle                                        40    
Brig (Fair American)               50    
Prince de Neufchatel             50    
Snow (Ontario)                       50    
Navy Brig (Fair American)    70    
Rattlesnake Heavy                70    
Mercury                                   70    
Mortar Brig                             75    
Niagara                                   100    
Cerberus                                 100    
Renommee                             110    
Surprise                                   140    
Hermione                                140    
Frigate (Cherubim)                170    
Belle Poule                              180    
Pirate Frigate(Cherubim)      180    
Essex                                       180    
Trincomalee                            225    
Endymion                                 225    
Indefatigable                          250    
Constitution                           250    
Agamemnon                          250    
Ingermanland                         250    
Wasa                                        250    
Wapen von Hamburg III       250    
3rd Rate                                  380    
Bellona                                    400    
St. Pavel                                 450    
Bucentaure                            450    
Victory                                    600    
L'Ocean                                   625 

Santisima                              650

   

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by George Washington

[Guest]

Just now, Rickard said:

well, limiting ship classes is more logical and easier than limiting BR.

but If I understand correctly then the Devs would like to create a system similar to World of Tanks clan battle, is that correct?

 

The problem is when you're trying to assemble a fleet. If the overall BR is the limit, adjustments can be made. If there are only 3 4th rates, several more 5th rates could be taken. If you don't have any 1st rates, you could bring 2 or 3 more 2nd rates. This isn't possible when you lock the number of ships by each class. 
 

[admin]

13 minutes ago, EliteDelta said:

The issue with limiting each ship class is that fleet composition becomes frustrating. I think admin was talking about a max BR value, and we can choose any fleet composition that doesn't exceed the BR limit. 

yes. We wont limit ship classes for deep water ports. If the limit is 650 its up to you - take 1 santisima or 15 cutters

 

[Farrago]

 

3 minutes ago, Rickard said:

well, limiting ship classes is more logical and easier than limiting BR.

but If I understand correctly then the Devs would like to create a system similar to World of Tanks clan battle, is that correct?

 

Except just limiting ship class will tend to revert to everyone using the same ships. Limiting by BR allows teams to be creative and play to their strengths or the enemy's weakness. Yes, it's more complicated but provides for so much more creativity.

[Farrago]

1 minute ago, Rickard said:

I see your point. but what about limiting the BR for every ship's class would that help?

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean saying that a port battle can have X BR worth of 1st rates, X BR of 3rd, etc?

[Liq]

29 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

 

Probably still needs some work but I think we can all agree that a wasa shouldnt be placed at the same BR as a connie / wappen / inger. Also Hermione shouldnt have the same BR as surp. Feel free to suggest changes to the community made list.

[Anne Wildcat]

Maybe a br limit of 3000 on deep water ports? That would be 5 Victorys or about 20 Surprises. Just a suggestion. 

[Liq]

3 minutes ago, rediii said:

4000 for old 4th rate ports

12.000 for old 1st rate ports

4000 for regular deep water ports seems ok.

But 12'000 is still 20 1st rates - Something along 7.5k -8k should give good possibilites to spread the BR on different types of lineships

[Teutonic]

2 hours ago, admin said:

we started to work on the feature

please propose numbers and ideas on the max and min limits if you have any.

 

2 hours ago, Intrepido said:

 

 

I feel there should be 4 BR limits for Deep Water ports, and 2-3 for Shallow Water ships.

Capital ports - 10,000 BR

Deep Water (Heavy) - 7,500 BR

Deep Water (Medium) - 5,000 BR

Deep Water (Light) - 3,000 BR

Shallow Water Capital - 2,000 BR

Shallow Water (Medium/Light) - 1,000 BR

 

Generally though, maybe the BR limits should be more fluid? maybe they should be random numbers, with capital regions always being higher BR limits. As for the ability to lower the BR, i don't think lowering it by 50% is correct, it should be no more than 25%

Edited October 17, 2017 by Teutonic

[Teutonic]

4 minutes ago, Liq said:

4000 for regular deep water ports seems ok.

But 12'000 is still 20 1st rates - Something along 7.5k -8k should give good possibilites to spread the BR on different types of lineships

if 12,000 BR was for capital ports only - that would seem fair from my PoV

EDIT - although I think 10,000 BR is a better option

Edited October 17, 2017 by Teutonic