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JobaSet

Insane AI ver human player

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Ok I have not come to think the AI in this game just need to be removed all together.  Once you get into a Frig class All hell break loose when you do battles 1 human Ver AI. 5 ver 1h and 4 AI.  If you are human they will all track you until  you are dead with lasers.  Its not a problem I can live with it, What I can't is After I die and now its AI ver AI.  They can't hit any thing.  I have found That it just easier to Hit everything a few times Die then leave and get in another boat.  It may take a Hour but you get the Xp(Sometimes) From Kill/Assist.  The Amount of wasted time in this game is unreal.  1 hour battles and you normal only get about 8% of what you need to get to next boat.  And that with 5 or 6 assist or 2 or 3 kills.  so 100/8 11 games = 11 hours just to get out of ship with no upgrades. It get worse the higher you get.  So 18 ships Love the game but you need to adjust AI and Bring up xp made or bring down What you need, or both.

  Then you got the Stupid people that think Winning is only way to get XP wont fight,  They just run you know the ones, they still in cutters or brigs.  The Curve for getting XP is plan and Simple.  IN ORDER.............Xp amount for Kill, Xp amount for Assist, Xp Amount for Hits,  Xp amount for Leaks,Mask, Sail(Maybe)......   Then the multiplieryer(I think this is just a KILL points added) that is not even worth it.. Xp x Still Alive (This one should be thrown out you got to many care bears that think they have to spend hours building a ship testing.),  Xp x Match won.

Edited by JobaSet
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With all that Said, you group up with someone in same boat.  You can run threw boats fast. 2 humans and Ai ver Just AI.  IS a Win even single time even if you are not very good and stay together.  The lasers are split so you are not only one taken damage.  As Ai don't really shoot at AI until Humans are dead or way out of range like 3 km

Edited by JobaSet
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What are you asking, though? AI is just filler in this phase of testing, the intention is to not have ai in normal battles.

Just cap out players that run and end the match.

How many matches did you do in tier 7 to tier 8 in wows, wot or wt? The grind will feel very different without bots; Quite a bit harder, i bet, but a lot more enjoyable.

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On the other hand he still has a point: Time.
That was one of the main reason the original Naval Action kept a small playerbase and/or lost a lot of the inital players.
At least I can speak for my clan (70 pepole) with hundreds/thousands hours each who stopped playing all together long before wipe.

Since you need more active players and diversed ships to build a working match making in Naval Action Legends this should defnitly be kept in mind.
I won't say that the battle has to e over after 5 minutes - that is crazy.
But 15, maybe 20 minutes should be fine and then you are well in range the often quoted world of warships is.

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1 hour ago, isard said:

On the other hand he still has a point: Time.
That was one of the main reason the original Naval Action kept a small playerbase and/or lost a lot of the inital players.
At least I can speak for my clan (70 pepole) with hundreds/thousands hours each who stopped playing all together long before wipe.

Since you need more active players and diversed ships to build a working match making in Naval Action Legends this should defnitly be kept in mind.
I won't say that the battle has to e over after 5 minutes - that is crazy.
But 15, maybe 20 minutes should be fine and then you are well in range the often quoted world of warships is.

They need to lose the you get more xp if you are alive,  To stop the running.  Make Assist worth more.  Make AI Fight AI like it does Human Players.

Edited by JobaSet

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41 minutes ago, sterner said:

AI loses guns as player, no difference in game mechanics.

So 5 ai can take out every cannon I have.  Don't forget My ai shooting at them(AI) hits maybe 1/2 time. But when Shooting at me they never miss from over a square away taken my cannons out.

 

Let us not forget they always have prep fire faster than I can with almost 180 range.  With Marines and every other upgrade you have slapped on them against Humans.  That don't effect how they fire on other AI one bit.

 

They only time Friendly AI connect with 80% of there shots fired at AI is when a human is between them Green on GREEN

Edited by JobaSet

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4 hours ago, jodgi said:

Please don't worry about bots, they're going away.

Hate to bust your bubble but, no, they are here to stay....   Take's to log get threw a Match with little reward.  People are not going to Stay for that.  

  • The fastest I have been able to complete a Map is 10 mins. By running Zones or Zone.  If you don't kill anyone and can Cap in this amount of time in a Frig or Reno you get right at 250-300 points not firing a Shot. 
    • Side note: Even if you don't get Damage there a bug it going to make you pay a little over 2700 to be on the numbers its 2710 lol   @admin

I Have seen 10-20 people Stop playing after 2 or 3 hours that is only only 3 to 5 missions,  Why? they STILL IN A BASIC CUTTER.

 

 

Groups might work 1/2 the time.

You got a wait time of like 5 mins sometime just to fight AI.  It bugs if your in a bigger ship and don't get pulled into a mission. (I think) About 4-5 mins.

Edited by JobaSet

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14 hours ago, sterner said:

AI loses guns as player, no difference in game mechanics.

I have noticed this weekend that I have started losing a lot more guns than usual and I can only put it down to the amazing accuracy of the AI at long range. The accuracy of the AI seems to have been increased this weekend and it is really noticeable at range.

Another thing about the AI is that they appear to still be able to reload and fire their cannons even though all their armor and structure is gone. I usually find by that stage I have all my crew on survival and none left to load the guns and can only fire if the cannons are already loaded, while AI seems to be still reloading and firing as the water laps over the deck and right up to the second you get the kill message.

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I was going to write a big thingo on the AI...then I thought....surely there won't actually be AI in the end product (unless its like Modern Warefare...where its co-op v AI). So I don't think I care....now if there isn't a big enough playerbase to provide games in a timely fashion without throwing in AI, then 2 things 

1) Uh Oh

2) Everything Joba said....+ 2304702374072307 other things.

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10 hours ago, JobaSet said:

Hate to bust your bubble but, no, they are here to stay....   Take's to log get threw a Match with little reward.  People are not going to Stay for that.  

  • The fastest I have been able to complete a Map is 10 mins. By running Zones or Zone.  If you don't kill anyone and can Cap in this amount of time in a Frig or Reno you get right at 250-300 points not firing a Shot. 
    • Side note: Even if you don't get Damage there a bug it going to make you pay a little over 2700 to be on the numbers its 2710 lol   @admin

I Have seen 10-20 people Stop playing after 2 or 3 hours that is only only 3 to 5 missions,  Why? they STILL IN A BASIC CUTTER.

 

 

Groups might work 1/2 the time.

You got a wait time of like 5 mins sometime just to fight AI.  It bugs if your in a bigger ship and don't get pulled into a mission. (I think) About 4-5 mins.

That sort of arrogant attitude will only result in hostility. Don't be toxic.

 

I always get thrown into battle after 2 minutes at max, even if I am alone. Even sooner if others are queueing up at the same time.

I noticed the maintenance fee bug too, but you get so much money that it doesn't really matter atm. It has to be sorted out, but nothing serious.

The game is slow paced. We know that from the beginning. Your signature suggests that you played Naval Action before Legends, so I really don't know what you were expecting. You won't finish a battle in 5 minutes, maybe only if it's 1v1 against AI. The spawns need to be far from each other to allow the teams to spread and fight for the wind, otherwise it would only be a head-on clash where long guns would be pretty much useless.

The cutter could be easier to leave behind, because it's really not a very interesting ship and its small hull makes aiming pretty hard, so it can be annoying.

The groups indeed need fixing ASAP.

The "capture the one circle and win without firing a shot" tactic only works if there is no player enemy. Otherwise they will always try to prevent you from capping the circle, and those fights are some of the best 1v1 fights I've had so far. Sure, if the enemy is only AI, you can do it, but then it's you who refuses to play the fun way, and chooses to go for the instant win. I personally always position myself on the circle's side of the brawl, pick out 1 or 2 enemies, kill them, then if I'm out  of hp, I go for the circle. 5-800 xp per battle, easy, and thus the grind is next to non-existent.

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26 minutes ago, kumisz said:

That sort of arrogant attitude will only result in hostility. Don't be toxic.

First Don't be a Carebear.  I am, to the point and will not pull my punches and if that is hard for you to read to bad.   

 

I always get thrown into battle after 2 minutes at max, even if I am alone. Even sooner if others are queueing up at the same time.

What ship are you in, I am was almost out of a Essex when server went down.  If you have unrated boats they will disappear in to a match and timer will keep going up to 5 mins most of time 4.  I have Played All weekend while playing Star Citizen 3 at same time, that is how much down time you have. Yea here is proof

I noticed the maintenance fee bug too, but you get so much money that it doesn't really matter atm. It has to be sorted out, but nothing serious. Your right no big deal.

The game is slow paced. We know that from the beginning. Your signature suggests that you played Naval Action before Legends, so I really don't know what you were expecting. You won't finish a battle in 5 minutes, maybe only if it's 1v1 against AI. The spawns need to be far from each other to allow the teams to spread and fight for the wind, otherwise it would only be a head-on clash where long guns would be pretty much useless.  This is not the best was to get to next ship.  I do plan on writing up something later today.  To help the new comers get out of the small ships faster.  So look for it by end of day Maybe its 7 am atm.

The cutter could be easier to leave behind, because it's really not a very interesting ship and its small hull makes aiming pretty hard, so it can be annoying.  Everyone I know that Stopped playing after a few hours because they were still in a brig.

The groups indeed need fixing ASAP.  Groups only work about 1/4 the time.  All weekend I was unable to invite anyone, but I was able to get invites "sometimes".  That,  on top of Chat working 50/50. Type something it shows up to others but you can't see it or read if someone responded

The "capture the one circle and win without firing a shot" tactic only works if there is no player enemy. Otherwise they will always try to prevent you from capping the circle, and those fights are some of the best 1v1 fights I've had so far. Sure, if the enemy is only AI, you can do it, but then it's you who refuses to play the fun way, and chooses to go for the instant win. I personally always position myself on the circle's side of the brawl, pick out 1 or 2 enemies, kill them, then if I'm out  of hp, I go for the circle. 5-800 xp per battle, easy, and thus the grind is next to non-existent. Again your tacit is sound, but not for xp/per hour, against AI or human (and yes there is a Diffrence) no one wants to play with AI.  Again I will do a Write up later today if I have time.

 

Edited by JobaSet
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34 minutes ago, JobaSet said:

What ship are you in, I am was almost out of a Essex when server went down.  If you have unrated boats they will disappear in to a match and timer will keep going up to 5 mins most of time 4.  I have Played All weekend while playing Star Citizen 3 at same time, that is how much down time you have. Yea here is proof

I managed to get the Snow by now. No wonder you are getting AI enemies constantly, you grinded way ahead of everyone else. No idea why that would cause longer queue, maybe the devs expected few people to reach that level, so they made the queue wait for longer so you would meet other high level players easier?

 

Minmaxing time/xp is something I always find riciculous. This isn't a full time job where the boss will fire you if you don't reach tier 8 by the evening. You should be playing for fun. Sweating about getting 0,04 xp/s doesn't sound like fun to me. It only makes you rage if something goes wrong, and that will affect your performance as well.

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1 minute ago, kumisz said:

I managed to get the Snow by now. No wonder you are getting AI enemies constantly, you grinded way ahead of everyone else. No idea why that would cause longer queue, maybe the devs expected few people to reach that level, so they made the queue wait for longer so you would meet other high level players easier?

 

Minmaxing time/xp is something I always find riciculous. This isn't a full time job where the boss will fire you if you don't reach tier 8 by the evening. You should be playing for fun. Sweating about getting 0,04 xp/s doesn't sound like fun to me. It only makes you rage if something goes wrong, and that will affect your performance as well.

Yea not a full time job mate as I said I spent very little time actually Playing game, After I figure out how was AI aggro-ed and how to lose it(Aggro). They don't miss, So going in balls deep will get you killed,  when you have one side of 20 cannons and they have x5 hitting you like lasers. Wish I could hit every shot at 1 square "think that is a 1 Km" for max damage. 

I had one fight and loszt all cannons on 1 side before I could load a 2nd volly.  This was not fun.  All My AI was full health So I was going to get the the win with all assist maybe a kill or 2 after the Ai finished them off. So I Just started a mission in SC and finished it before battle was over.  lol  Got almost comical kiting Ai threw my AI. To sink them.

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I doubt you spend "very little time" playing the game because of the 5 minute queues. If you run away of course, that's another matter, and only your fault. You probably lose that many guns because you let the AI rake you. You rarely lose guns from side hits as long as you have armor.

The AI misses plenty of shots, either simply misaims or hits waves. They use medium cannons, so it's not that hard to hit a target even at range. Nothing a decent player couldn't do. And they will penetrate if you are sailing 90° to the enemy.

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I see a lot of complaints that the xp is too low and that too much time has to be spent in certain ships, and then there is advice on how to max XP/hr, but isint that missing the whole point of the game which should be to have fun in battles against other players. Why the rush to get into bigger ships, I can understand getting out of the cutter but once into the Brig and Navy Brig you can have enjoyable battles as long as you are not up against frigates and above. I started dropping out of the queue when I saw there were frigates in the queue against unrated ships.

What are people going to do once they have rushed through all the ships? what happens then, do they get bored with the game or do they just fight in those bigger ships. I understand the feeling of achievement unlocking the next level, but too many times I have seen that this takes over the experience and people then lose interest once they have unlocked everything. Personally I would be happy if we did not even have to unlock ships but could play in whatever ships we wanted in arranged matches and scenarios. 

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1 hour ago, kumisz said:

I doubt you spend "very little time" playing the game because of the 5 minute queues. If you run away of course, that's another matter, and only your fault. You probably lose that many guns because you let the AI rake you. You rarely lose guns from side hits as long as you have armor.

The AI misses plenty of shots, either simply misaims or hits waves. They use medium cannons, so it's not that hard to hit a target even at range. Nothing a decent player couldn't do. And they will penetrate if you are sailing 90° to the enemy.

Just wait until you get out of a 6th rates.  You don't get it it. AI will attack you from range and ignore my AI right next to it.  I can Deal with the AI being Super snipers, I can take 3/4 armor off every boat and still be floating then I have to get away. Why do I have to do this,  All my AI have not taken a Shot from the other AI. ALL MY AI Will have FULL BARS or very close to it. IF I keep them all in one Square of me. I will get 5 or 6 kills that match and if I live MAX xp

Edited by JobaSet

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50 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I see a lot of complaints that the xp is too low and that too much time has to be spent in certain ships, and then there is advice on how to max XP/hr, but isint that missing the whole point of the game which should be to have fun in battles against other players. Why the rush to get into bigger ships, I can understand getting out of the cutter but once into the Brig and Navy Brig you can have enjoyable battles as long as you are not up against frigates and above. I started dropping out of the queue when I saw there were frigates in the queue against unrated ships. when Just because you see a frig in q you left wow.  95% of time unless grouped with a lower ship player I was forced to play ver AI even when q had 7 unrated and I was in a frig. And when I did get into lower lvl game they Had better AI than i/we had.

What are people going to do once they have rushed through all the ships?  There is no rush that is for sure at current XP to Ship Full bore,  I could get into a essex in 3 days. IF I had to start over.  what happens then, do they get bored with the game or do they just fight in those bigger ships. Still got to upgrade slots. I understand the feeling of achievement unlocking the next level, but too many times I have seen that this takes over the experience and people then lose interest once they have unlocked everything. Personally I would be happy if we did not even have to unlock ships but could play in whatever ships we wanted in arranged matches and scenarios.   I like that idea but not real.  I think you should have to unlock 4 or 5  slots just to get into next boat like every game I have played like this.  But some of the upgrades are op.  I dropped down ships to a Navy brig with some friends.  They both had NB no slots open I had some slots open, so we had 3 NB and 3 AI ver 4 Players in NB or better and 2 AI (yea was a 6v6). I lost 1/2 of one side and got 4 of 5 kills.  They didn't get crap but like 500 xp each and I made over 1100.  Needless to Say That is a problem also 

 

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