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Eléazar de Damas

Port Battles with limited BR

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Port Battles are quite repetitive and I can here on the TeamSpeak more and more players telling that they do not want to do RvR anymore because it is “always the same”.

Always

  • 25 x 1st rates (some obliged to use Oceans or preferring her, some using Victories if their nation allows it, battle marks obliged)
  • or 25 x 4th rates (most Wasa’s by now, awaiting remaining Agamemnon’s to be sunk or burnt)
  • Or 25 Heavy-Rattlesnakes or Mercuries (also depending on Nations CM’s) for shallow waters.

I would suggest a BR limit for Port Battle, this limit being a consequence of the tax recoveries during the last 2 weeks. So that important ports would have a BR limit of 16,250 (25 Santi’s), less important could decrease to 500 (25 Lynx, yes!) if no tax came from.

This would create a lot of variety in Port Battles:

  • Would I prefer 25 Bellona’s or 16 Ocean’s when the PB limit is 100,000?
  • Or a mixture including some 1t rates, some 2nd and 3rd rates and some frigates?...
  • What will be my strategy? What’s about enemy choices?

Hoping that would help…

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This sort of proposal has been put forward many times and as far as I remember some of the main issues are

  1. With BR limits how does the battle leader guarantee which ships get into the battle? What happens if someone turns up in a Santi when the battle leader was only planning to use Bellonas? 
  2. For the port battle fleet sailing to a lower BR battle, they could be screened out easier by a larger BR screening fleet, similar to how first rates are used not to try and screen 4th rate port battles.
  3. Whatever BR you set for a battle there will be an optimal setup found and this is what will become the norm leaving you in a similar position to what currently exists. This could be alleviated if as you suggest the BR limit is variable depending on the ports income.

Overall I like the idea as I think it would bring more variety to port battles, but some hurdles would have to be overcome.

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45 minutes ago, Eléazar de Damas said:

Port Battles are quite repetitive and I can here on the TeamSpeak more and more players telling that they do not want to do RvR anymore because it is “always the same”.

Always

  • 25 x 1st rates (some obliged to use Oceans or preferring her, some using Victories if their nation allows it, battle marks obliged)
  • or 25 x 4th rates (most Wasa’s by now, awaiting remaining Agamemnon’s to be sunk or burnt)
  • Or 25 Heavy-Rattlesnakes or Mercuries (also depending on Nations CM’s) for shallow waters.

I would suggest a BR limit for Port Battle, this limit being a consequence of the tax recoveries during the last 2 weeks. So that important ports would have a BR limit of 16,250 (25 Santi’s), less important could decrease to 500 (25 Lynx, yes!) if no tax came from.

This would create a lot of variety in Port Battles:

  • Would I prefer 25 Bellona’s or 16 Ocean’s when the PB limit is 100,000?
  • Or a mixture including some 1t rates, some 2nd and 3rd rates and some frigates?...
  • What will be my strategy? What’s about enemy choices?

Hoping that would help…

It would not help, and there is no need for another discussion about this. Variety in port battles makes no sense.

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Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

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8 minutes ago, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

It is possible also thanks to battle groups. It can count all the BR in that group and tell you if that battle group is suitable for entering the PB.

Same system as when you see a NPC fleet in the OW. It says you the total BR of that fleet.

 

I encourage you @admin to test it. I think RvR will be much improved.

Edited by Intrepido

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1 minute ago, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

very true, and what about giving the clan controlling the port more control over the port battle type, e.g. make it so a small clan can set a PB to 10-15 players per side, and maybe even some BR mixing in that..?
Some players said that this suggestion of letting the clan decide the PB size would be nonsense because you shouldnt be able to tell a big attacking force outside a port that they magically can't join a port battle.. But there currently is a game mechanic which limits it to 25 already, even though sometiems there are way more players outside ready to join action. So basically its just a suggestion of adjusting an existing game mechanic, nothing totally new.

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So in future the problem of screening is not only relevant anymore in 4th rate battles but also in 1st rate battles.

there will be a meta again which you have to use at some point ... depends on the limit you actually give us but meta will be the way to go then pretty fast. From my perspective 1sts rates will become useless except in screening, hostility or when you just not have enough players to fill the pb with meta setup.

But lets see

In the end Im not sure that works on a bigger populated server because 1st rate screening will be THE thing with more players.

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16 minutes ago, rediii said:

So in future the problem of screening is not only relevant anymore in 4th rate battles but also in 1st rate battles.

there will be a meta again which you have to use at some point ... depends on the limit you actually give us but meta will be the way to go then pretty fast. From my perspective 1sts rates will become useless except in screening, hostility or when you just not have enough players to fill the pb with meta setup.

But lets see

In the end Im not sure that works on a bigger populated server because 1st rate screening will be THE thing with more players.

Maybe with a BR system we should not talk about 4th rate PBs. Maybe we could end with this distintion between 4th and 1st rates PBs. With a BR system a flag captain can enter any portbatte, he wouldnt be limited to 4th PBs. Or the guy who like a lot the St Pavel can bring it to ALL port battles (except shallow ones).

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42 minutes ago, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

that's pretty cool, if clans can create their own BR limits for their port battles that could be the factor in limiting ship and player sizes!

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11 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Maybe with a BR system we should not talk about 4th rate PBs. Maybe we could end with this distintion between 4th and 1st rates PBs. With a BR system a flag captain can enter any portbatte, he wouldnt be limited to 4th PBs. Or the guy who like a lot the St Pavel can bring it to ALL port battles (except shallow ones).

No he basically cant because Big ships dominate big playerbattles in this game. But lets talk about that when this is implemented and we have a clue how high or low the BR limit is

Also the guy with the pavel is maybe also hello kittyed because big ships get taken by known, good pvp players

 

We will see ... why not test it... But I think it wont be as awesome as you think maybe

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18 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Maybe with a BR system we should not talk about 4th rate PBs. Maybe we could end with this distintion between 4th and 1st rates PBs. With a BR system a flag captain can enter any portbatte, he wouldnt be limited to 4th PBs. Or the guy who like a lot the St Pavel can bring it to ALL port battles (except shallow ones).

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

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1 minute ago, rediii said:

No he basically cant because Big ships dominate big playerbattles in this game. But lets talk about that when this is implemented and we have a clue how high or low the BR limit is

Also the guy with the pavel is maybe also hello kittyed because big ships get taken by known, good pvp players

 

We will see ... why not test it... But I think it wont be as awesome as you think maybe

Better than having the same 25 wasa, ocean/victory or rattlesnake heavy it will be.

Small steps to improve RvR is cool.

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

Before you introduce this system (that sounds nice), you need to balance BR of all ships.

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

Exactly:

-small clans can have more choices now.

-all ships, without distintions, will be useful for RvR.

-all player ranks could play RvR without limits.

Edited by Intrepido

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Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Before you introduce this system (that sounds nice), you need to balance BR of all ships.

I heavily agree with this. currently BR doesn't mean jack, but if we do enter a BR limit to port battle, BR becomes an important balancing factor.

I would strongly wish for Ship balance, or if not ship balance, then with a BR limit to Port Battles you NEED a BR balance.

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Just let me ask you something....If in a Lineship port battle only 10 1st rates are supposed to be, who is going to take a 5th rate then? Or 4th?

This leads only to quarrel and misunderstanding.

As somebody stated already, and nothing changed since then, each nation/clan, can create his own fleet. And ofc, if a Lineship port is supposed to be conquered, who is supposed to join in a Surprise then? Although you could.

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6 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

What about considering a variable BR for a port based on the ports tax income as suggested in the OP, that way you wont end up with a meta for the different sized port battles, or would that be too complicated?

 

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Just now, Liq said:

Can it be, 3rd rates getting a use again? :)

Your deadly surprise could have a slot in a PB too.

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Just now, Cortez said:

Just let me ask you something....If in a Lineship port battle only 10 1st rates are supposed to be, who is going to take a 5th rate then? Or 4th?

This leads only to quarrel and misunderstanding.

As somebody stated already, and nothing changed since then, each nation/clan, can create his own fleet. And ofc, if a Lineship port is supposed to be conquered, who is supposed to join in a Surprise then? Although you could.

previously a nation could sail to a port battle and enter

now clan sails to port battle and enters. 
clan has full control over fleet composition
if a member does not comply - kick from clan

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11 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

I really like, I think to make it "easier."

You should have maybe...say....3 predefined port battle limits for each port. so a "Lineship Port Battle" can now have a BR limit of say 13,500 -- 10,000 -- 6,500 (I'm throwing numbers out there).

Lineship - 13,500 -- 10,000 -- 6,500

4th Rate - 5,500 -- 4,000 -- 2,500

Something roughly like this, so groups can still have there "25 v 25" 1st rates, or you could have smaller batches? Or would that get too complicated? Maybe so...idk, but BR limits for PB based on Clan v Clan is awesome.

Edited by Teutonic

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2 minutes ago, admin said:

previously a nation could sail to a port battle and enter

now clan sails to port battle and enters. 
clan has full control over fleet composition
if a member does not comply - kick from clan

It is even easier now with the invite to battlegroups. You can control very well your PB fleet, for defenses and attacks.

 

And the funny thing is, no one can distinguish which is the Screening fleet than the Port Battle fleet.

Edited by Intrepido

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2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

 

Something roughly like this, so groups can still have there "25 v 25" 1st rates, or you could have smaller batches? Or would that get too complicated

25v25 first rates will actually not happen at all
clans will have to carefully balance the fleet - scout enemy composition etc :)
did they take 5 first rates only or did they only take fast frigates and mortars…. 

so many opportunities open up for the variety of ships in port battles.

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Just now, admin said:

25v25 will actually not happen at all
clans will have to carefully balance the fleet - scout enemy composition etc :)
did they take 5 first rates only or did they only take fast frigates and mortars…. 

so many opportunities open up for the variety of ships in port battles.

I'm in heaven.

although I do wish to see possible variation in BR limits for Port Battles! with BR variation you could make all ports "all different" so some deep water ports hold more 1st rates or some are more 4th/5th rate focused.

omg, please let it be so.

Edited by Teutonic

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