Port Battles with limited BR

[Stilgar]

17 hours ago, Cortez said:

That is exactly the problem.

Changing the PB BR, you need another PB mechanic,where it makes sense to have small frigates in battle. Otherwise those frigates will only lose their masts, and will be probably used as fireships and pawns.

Makes no sense to me at all.

Why do you think frigates would engage large ships from minute one? They would form reserve / special group to counter the enemy frigates, hunt the enemy mortar brigs, supporting bigger ships, chaise and finish damaged enemy ships etc.

[Busterbloodvessel]

15 hours ago, admin said:

indeed. The beauty of clan's pb is that clan has FULL control - complete control on what is the fleet composition. And this gives us the option to establish the limit (or (dreaming aloud) allow the clans to lower the state induced limit (just like with the tax). 

I like the idea of some sort of control, however, who should have that control? 

The clan defenders already have a significant advantage at port defence and if we are not careful the defender will select his favourite fleet recipe for every port defence. This will enhance a single large clan with a dedicated defence fleet where a killer recipe is always used. On the other hand, an attacker having a fleet comprised of a number of small clans cobbling a fleet together is unlikely to be as well balanced and thus dislodging a large clan from a collection of ports will become extremely difficult and possibly pointless.

Almost the same argument could be put towards an attacking clan choosing the BR level albeit the attacking clan has some additional concerns, screening fleets etc.. knocking out his fleet recipe and balance.

What I would suggest is that :

• the Defending Clan (leader or officer) inputs a BR level as does the attacking clan (leader or officer). The average of the two BR values is used to set the BR.  In this way both sides have an input into the BR value.
• If either side fails to input a BR level then the BR level is set by the one BR submitted.
• If both sides fail to input a BR then, the BR of the last port battle at the location is used (the game being initiated with some starter BR levels for each port). 
• Clan inputs would be required at least 3 hours (suggestion) prior to the PB after which time the BR is fixed and published.   This gives reasonable time for a fleet to be assembled and on location.

This will add further variety. 

Buster (envisaged by the wooden eye)

Edited October 7, 2017 by Busterbloodvessel
me's grammar and speeling

[Archaos]

3 hours ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

I like the idea of some sort of control, however, who should have that control? 

The clan defenders already have a significant advantage at port defence and if we are not careful the defender will select his favourite fleet recipe for every port defence. This will enhance a single large clan with a dedicated defence fleet where a killer recipe is always used. On the other hand, an attacker having a fleet comprised of a number of small clans cobbling a fleet together is unlikely to be as well balanced and thus dislodging a large clan from a collection of ports will become extremely difficult and possibly pointless.

Almost the same argument could be put towards an attacking clan choosing the BR level albeit the attacking clan has some additional concerns, screening fleets etc.. knocking out his fleet recipe and balance.

What I would suggest is that :

• the Defending Clan (leader or officer) inputs a BR level as does the attacking clan (leader or officer). The average of the two BR values is used to set the BR.  In this way both sides have an input into the BR value.
• If either side fails to input a BR level then the BR level is set by the one BR submitted.
• If both sides fail to input a BR then, the BR of the last port battle at the location is used (the game being initiated with some starter BR levels for each port). 
• Clan inputs would be required at least 3 hours (suggestion) prior to the PB after which time the BR is fixed and published.   This gives reasonable time for a fleet to be assembled and on location.

This will add further variety. 

Buster (envisaged by the wooden eye)

I think you have mistaken the response given by the Devs. The response was in regards to some random person entering a PB maybe in a SoL and thus using up a significant amount of available BR which could throw out the fleet commanders plans (attacker or defender), but as the port battles are fought by clans and their allies the controlling clans should be able to decide in advance who is joining their battles and in what ships. If a member of their clan or allies randomly decides to join the battle then the clan leaders can kick the person from the clan preventing them from doing it again. That is where the control comes from, it is not in regards to the BR.

[Teutonic]

33 minutes ago, Archaos said:

I think you have mistaken the response given by the Devs. The response was in regards to some random person entering a PB maybe in a SoL and thus using up a significant amount of available BR which could throw out the fleet commanders plans (attacker or defender), but as the port battles are fought by clans and their allies the controlling clans should be able to decide in advance who is joining their battles and in what ships. If a member of their clan or allies randomly decides to join the battle then the clan leaders can kick the person from the clan preventing them from doing it again. That is where the control comes from, it is not in regards to the BR.

On top of this, it seems the Devs are keen on either making ports have different BR limits, a couple Br limit options, or just a flat BR limit for each type.

I am more hopeful that, while it would take longer, each port can have a different BR limit...or at the very least have a wide range of Br limits (like 10 or 15) that would make almost every port on the map unique in strategy and the ships you see.

It goes back to needing a BR update for almost all ships though, that's the key.

[Hammerhaj]

23 hours ago, Cortez said:

Really? I remember you almost crying in GLOBAL chat after swedes ganked you and you lost your precious Santa C.

Dude, I was also online at the moment. Santa Cecilia is uncraftable the most precious ship to those who loves surprises, since it has pretty much the same sailing profile and 12 pdr.. 

Its worth 10 1st rates in my eyes. Come back when you loose one of those. The revenge gank mech was a pain, many players got bitten by that mechanic. BTW the swedes SANK it. It was a terrible day for everyone 

Stop trolling around. 

Back to topic.. If the BR limit is present, 1 nation or clan with 10 players have possibility to def a port with BR limit of 6k (example). They can bring 10 1st rates. The others can be 25, but must not exceed 6000 br. Epic fights will be fought!

I will definitely love to get this gets tested. It will engage more players to do RvR when you dont need a specific ship build of a specific wood type. The little guys can defend themselves in some ports and regional capitals will be major battles of mixed 4th-1st rates 25v25 I imagine. So regional ports will belong to stronger clans and little clans still have opportunity to cap ports with lower BR limit. 

[Hawkwood]

4 hours ago, Hammerhaj said:

Dude, I was also online at the moment. Santa Cecilia is uncraftable the most precious ship to those who loves surprises, since it has pretty much the same sailing profile and 12 pdr.. 

Its worth 10 1st rates in my eyes. Come back when you loose one of those. The revenge gank mech was a pain, many players got bitten by that mechanic. BTW the swedes SANK it. It was a terrible day for everyone 

Stop trolling around. 

If you think i am trolling, then don`t respond.

Ok, 10 1st rates. Keep smoking whatever you are smoking.

[Busterbloodvessel]

9 hours ago, Archaos said:

I think you have mistaken the response given by the Devs. The response was in regards to some random person entering a PB maybe in a SoL and thus using up a significant amount of available BR which could throw out the fleet commanders plans (attacker or defender), but as the port battles are fought by clans and their allies the controlling clans should be able to decide in advance who is joining their battles and in what ships. If a member of their clan or allies randomly decides to join the battle then the clan leaders can kick the person from the clan preventing them from doing it again. That is where the control comes from, it is not in regards to the BR.

Thanks. my bad.  

However, I think the method of setting BR should be considered so that there is almost infinite variability so that we are always trying different ship mixes rather than fixed BR levels for each port.

Buster (tip of the hat)

 

[Hammerhaj]

3 hours ago, Cortez said:

If you think i am trolling, then don`t respond.

Ok, 10 1st rates. Keep smoking whatever you are smoking.

I had ownership of around fifty 1st rates, but only 1 Santa Cecilia. Best ship I ever had.

2 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Santa Cecilia is useless now in combat. Too slow, sailing profile not good anymore, weak sails and armour. Pirate Frigate is much better.

Its too bad, I didnt know. The Surprise is also kinda broken now

[firebool]

A greeting to all, never enter to the subjects although I found them very entertaining, although in this case I find so interesting that I could not resist.
In my humble opinion I sincerely believe that it would be a great improvement for the game to be able to play battles for the BR, simply for the strategy, the diversity of the ships and the veneficio to be able to exploit the use of all the boats that today are limited in the use in the port battles, besides not to depend of having to take 25 players to a battle, which already would be a true achievement.
Thank you very much for your attention.

[Malachy]

On 10/6/2017 at 9:29 AM, admin said:

25v25 first rates will actually not happen at all
clans will have to carefully balance the fleet - scout enemy composition etc
did they take 5 first rates only or did they only take fast frigates and mortars…. 

so many opportunities open up for the variety of ships in port battles.

About friggin time

[Quineloe]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:21 PM, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

The only limit this enforces is a minimum BR of 600 to enter a Lineship port battle.

[Norfolk nChance]

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22704-idea-mixed-fleet-port-battles/

 

for what its worth, using a BR Divisor that's quite a lot larger can control or help build mixed fleets.

But like @rediiipoints out no control outside for screening... 

[Quineloe]

10 minutes ago, rediii said:

You dont understand what admin means then

Apparently not. Can you explain?  We can't decide right now which clans may attack us, so if we know they're gonna come with 25 first rates, why would we ever limit ourselves to less?

[Quineloe]

we had that option before when each port had a lord protector who could set the time. He might as well had been able to set a BR total for the PB. It didn't make it in. I'll believe it when I see it.

[PaladinFX]

@admin

I would be 100% in favour of creating a variety of ship classes in line ship PBs, the variety would open up the tactical options for the battle and make it way more interesting than 25 1st rates v 24 1st rates + mortar brig. This would give opportunities for newer players to be involved in line ship PBs as well as they could participate by sailing in lower rated ships; this could help with player retention as newer players could get involved in PBs fairly quickly after joining NA. If you enforce a cap on the number of each ship class you enforce the variety and that in turn creates the variety of tactics the battle commander has at his disposal. This could create some pretty interesting PB scenarios!

A possible solution for line ship PBs of a 25 ship fleet could be:

1st rates: minimum 3, maximum 5

2nd rates: minimum 4, maximum 6

3rd rates: minimum 4, maximum 8

Total of line ships must = 15 ships. (The numbers above are just an example to enforce a line ship fleet combined of a variety of 1st/2nd/3rd rates)

4th rates: minimum 2, maximum 4

5th rates: minimum 3, maximum 5

6th rates: minimum 1, maximum 5 (eg Mortar Brigs, Heavy Rattle, Niagara)

Total number of 4th/5th/6th rates combined must = 10 ships.

 

The ship min/max numbers idea could also be set up the same way using min/max BR numbers per ship class. The idea of the numbers above is that the cap/requirement of 15 line ships is still the majority % of the 25 ship fleet thus qualifying it as a line ship PB, and the variety of ships involved in the PB is guaranteed. I like the idea of using minimums and maximums because it enforces the variety of ship classes involved whilst retaining options for the fleet set up. I think this is a better solution than just enforcing x number of each ship class; this would not yield as much potential variety as the idea I have shown above. There are plenty of players who love sailing say the Bellona/Buc/Connie (for example) and i personally think it would be a hell of a lot of fun to see those ships have a role in line ship PBs.

The same process could also be used to set min/max numbers for 4th/5th/6th rates for 4th rate PBs to ensure a variety of ship classes in 4th rate PBs.

An afterthought: Maybe the leader of the attacking clan could set a choice for the PB: Standard as we have been doing up until now, or Varied as per above suggestions for a variety of ships.

 

Edited October 12, 2017 by PaladinFX