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Port Battles with limited BR


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1 minute ago, Liq said:

Sounds like you should widen your horizons a bit.. I think it could be very interesting to get variety in PBs - Gotten very boring to keep seeing the same old 25 v 25 Victory Vs Victory battles. Frigates can be a pain in the ... for lineships, of course you can commit do demasting them but then you'll be lacking the firepower onto the enemy lineships...

I guess you never lost a 1st rate in a battle, and lost PB at the same time. Otherwise you wouldn`t say such things.

Try to make a 1st rate, gather materials, spend hours of sailing and lose it. Report back then.

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1 minute ago, Cortez said:

I guess you never lost a 1st rate in a battle, and lost PB at the same time. Otherwise you wouldn`t say such things.

Try to make a 1st rate, gather materials, spend hours of sailing and lose it. Report back then.

lol mate I've lost hundred of ships in my 4200+ hours of playing the game, incl. lineships in the early days - but got tired of them. Not really a challenge anymore to build them now with the reduced costs and gold being so easy to get.

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2 minutes ago, Liq said:

lol mate I've lost hundred of ships in my 4200+ hours of playing the game, incl. lineships in the early days - but got tired of them. Not really a challenge anymore to build them now with the reduced costs and gold being so easy to get.

Really? I remember you almost crying in GLOBAL chat after swedes ganked you and you lost your precious Santa C.

Was accidentally online.

With all due respect for you as a player, your suggestions caused more trouble to this game than anything else.

Edited by Cortez
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Just now, Cortez said:

Really? I remember you almost crying in GLOBAL chat after swedes ganked you and you lost your precious Santa C.

Was accidentally online.

With all due respect for you as a player, your suggestions caused more trouble to this game than anything else.

If you ever followed it in more detail you'll notice I was not "crying" about the loss of the ships but more about the fact that such a stupid game mechanics as revenge fleets could exist :) And now they're fixed with the invis., a recent poll showed most players like it as it is.
Compared to some other players I craft / get ships to use them :) Not to just let them rot in port
Anyway this has gone offtopic now. Keep your toxicity for somewhere else please.

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27 minutes ago, admin said:

previously a nation could sail to a port battle and enter

now clan sails to port battle and enters. 
clan has full control over fleet composition
if a member does not comply - kick from clan

I understand what you are saying however, the clan has no control over what the other side brings.

25 1st rates will beat any fleet made up of a mix of ships.  So, a clan that would like to use a mixed ship fleet is forced to also show up in a matching fleet.

If you try using BR to set port battles, I think a "lineship" port battle's BR should the BR value of 10-15 first rates.  So to fill the full 25 ships, other ships would need to be used.  

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Just now, Salty Dog on Global said:

I understand what you are saying however, the clan has no control over what the other side brings.

25 1st rates will beat any fleet made up of a mix of ships.  So, a clan that would like to use a mixed ship fleet is forced to also show up in a matching fleet.

If you try using BR to set port battles, I think a "lineship" port battle's BR should the BR value of 10-15 first rates.  So to fill the full 25 ships, other ships would need to be used.  

I think you got your math wrong :)

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Yes! I started this post back in May. I could never come up with a solution. Some things happen in due time.

Now that we're on the verge of going hardcore in NA, I believe it's time to have a serious discussion regarding fleet composition in port battles. The attached photo is included just as a visual.

We've argued to strive for as much reality in all other aspects of the game. I believe it's time to tackle this one.

 Fellow Forum member z4ys has been supportive of the idea and encouraged me to think it through and submit an idea. He thought that the biggest flaw would be that the majority of players would always want to be in the 1st rates, and therefore there would be a constant conflict for who gets in the biggest ship. If diverse fleet composition had been mandatory for port battles since their inception, we would have been none the wiser, and would have always played by those rules. We all will adapt to this change just as we will adapt to no teleports, single dura ships and all of the other upcoming changes to the game.

 

 

 

US_Navy_080705-N-2735T-946_The_Nassau_Strike_Group_(NASSG)_transits_the_Atlantic_Ocean._The_NASSG_is_completing_their_deployment_in_the_U.[1].jpg

Edited May 19 by Captiva 

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1 minute ago, Liq said:

If you ever followed it in more detail you'll notice I was not "crying" about the loss of the ships but more about the fact that such a stupid game mechanics as revenge fleets could exist :) And now they're fixed with the invis., a recent poll showed most players like it as it is.
Compared to some other players I craft / get ships to use them :) Not to just let them rot in port
Anyway this has gone offtopic now. Keep your toxicity for somewhere else please.

Toxicity?

Dude you are acting like this topic/suggestion is going to change a Goddamn thing. You can not force people to do something.Like said before,even now 4th rate battles should appear every day and in big numbers, they don`t.

Why?

You really think, changing BR limit WOULD CHANGE ANYTHING? First one who enters with a Surp between big boats, lose his masts and gets wrecked, will never occure in same ship again. I promise you that.

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1 hour ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

Firstly I am in favour of this but can I introduce a few suggestions. 

BR must recognise that ships of the same Rate have different PB strengths. For example the Wasa, Agge and Constitution have the same BR of 250 yet no-one is going to take a Constitution along to a PB if they can take a WASA (except the one exception out there somewhere). The BR for all ships needs to be reviewed if it is to assist in varying the PB ship mix.. 

Perhaps BR could also vary slightly with ship broadside weight/armour/thickness/speed & turning properties. This might mean for example that you could choose to turn up with either 5 full strength white oak L'Ocean OR five oak L'Ocean carrying smaller lower deck cannon and a St.Pav (other balance suggestions are available). This will increase the BR recipe possibilities with both teams trying to figure out the best mix and giving stronger ships to better players (or the other way around ).

Buster (head hurting)

Edited by Busterbloodvessel
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3 minutes ago, Salty Dog on Global said:

I understand what you are saying however, the clan has no control over what the other side brings.

25 1st rates will beat any fleet made up of a mix of ships.  So, a clan that would like to use a mixed ship fleet is forced to also show up in a matching fleet.

If you try using BR to set port battles, I think a "lineship" port battle's BR should the BR value of 10-15 first rates.  So to fill the full 25 ships, other ships would need to be used.  

The thing is that with limited BR you will not be able to get 25 first rates into a battle, you may only be able to get 10 in before your BR is used up, so the other side may be able to get 25 ships in my mixing up different ships. It will make the battles more interesting especially as you do not know what the other side are going to field.

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44 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Before you introduce this system (that sounds nice), you need to balance BR of all ships.

That's true. You could even improve the system by adapting BR of ships based on frequency of how often they're used in PB. This way any meta would change after some time, as ships used most often in PB's would increase in BR price. The end result should be a really well balanced BR system, which would auto-adapt after introducing any changes to ship statistics.

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2 minutes ago, Cortez said:

Toxicity?

Dude you are acting like this topic/suggestion is going to change a Goddamn thing. You can not force people to do something.Like said before,even now 4th rate battles should appear every day and in big numbers, they don`t.

Why?

You really think, changing BR limit WOULD CHANGE ANYTHING? First one who enters with a Surp between big boats, lose his masts and gets wrecked, will never occure in same ship again. I promise you that.

Obviously you're not supposed to go in full-retard-mode in a surprise without any backup - only logical consequence is you getting demasted. A surprise could group up with  a couple of friendly 3rd rates to gang on a few hostile 1st rates - and stick to its stern. You'll have to work together as a TEAM to accomplish anything.

Sorry but are you new to this game?

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6 minutes ago, Liq said:

Obviously you're not supposed to go in full-retard-mode in a surprise without any backup - only logical consequence is you getting demasted. A surprise could group up with  a couple of friendly 3rd rates to gang on a few hostile 1st rates - and stick to its stern. You'll have to work together as a TEAM to accomplish anything.

Sorry but are you new to this game?

Aha.Working as a team in a small ships? We shall see.

Imagine bad wind in a PB. Wanna shoot sails to another group of small ships, or shoot sails to big ships?

Oh right, 1st rates will allow the sterncamping, no doubt.

It`s all in your head.

Did you think of screening? Battlegroup of 1st rates from a big nation would just screen your smaller BR fleet out.

Edited by Cortez
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2 hours ago, Eléazar de Damas said:

Port Battles are quite repetitive and I can here on the TeamSpeak more and more players telling that they do not want to do RvR anymore because it is “always the same”.

Always

  • 25 x 1st rates (some obliged to use Oceans or preferring her, some using Victories if their nation allows it, battle marks obliged)
  • or 25 x 4th rates (most Wasa’s by now, awaiting remaining Agamemnon’s to be sunk or burnt)
  • Or 25 Heavy-Rattlesnakes or Mercuries (also depending on Nations CM’s) for shallow waters.

I would suggest a BR limit for Port Battle, this limit being a consequence of the tax recoveries during the last 2 weeks. So that important ports would have a BR limit of 16,250 (25 Santi’s), less important could decrease to 500 (25 Lynx, yes!) if no tax came from.

This would create a lot of variety in Port Battles:

  • Would I prefer 25 Bellona’s or 16 Ocean’s when the PB limit is 100,000?
  • Or a mixture including some 1t rates, some 2nd and 3rd rates and some frigates?...
  • What will be my strategy? What’s about enemy choices?

Hoping that would help…

We had the same talk the last days and the same suggestion in ts.

@admin I would really like to see this implemented. That would make port battles so much more interesting and more tactics could be the result. I think that would make much faster accessable for several players because smaller ships also takes a role.

Edited by Sven Silberbart
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5 minutes ago, Archaos said:

The thing is that with limited BR you will not be able to get 25 first rates into a battle, you may only be able to get 10 in before your BR is used up, so the other side may be able to get 25 ships in my mixing up different ships. It will make the battles more interesting especially as you do not know what the other side are going to field.

yup, that's exactly what I think should happen.  I'd love to see a 10 1st rates vs 20 3rd rates or (5 X1st rates,  5 X 2nd Rates X 5 4th Rates).  The whole 25 1st rates vs 25 first rates is boring and has NEVER happened in history.

I don't know what ratio they need to come up with balancing BR.  I'm thinking something like 1st rate = 2 third Rates=4 fifth rates.  I think we need find a ratio where most experienced captains would be unsure who had the advantage.  

So, if you were in a group with 4 fifth rates, would you feel that attacking 2 third rates is a equal fight?  Or in a group with 2 third rates would you attack a single 1st rate?  

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Love the suggestion! Finally RvR would gave some desperately needed diversity! 

I agree that BR would need to be balanced for this to work. 

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2 minutes ago, Salty Dog on Global said:

1st rate = 2 third Rates=4 fifth rates

Ok, lets play this through.

Drop your 4th rates at A, send all other ships to another circle.Enemy does the same.Send all 4th rates as reinforcement to your main group,enemy does the same.

Where is the thrill?

Whatever the "first draw" of the most successful fleet with limited BR is going to be, in a week or 2 every clan or nation is going to do the same.

Whatever the ships you can take.And again, everything depends on the wind.

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8 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

And because every port battle have different/random wind, which you can predict/calculate, GOOD admirals will adjust the fleet composition.

We have seen battles before where "good" admirals had shit wind and lost battle just because of it.Has nothing to do with your fleet composition.

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