Port Battles with limited BR

[Aquillas]

Port Battles are quite repetitive and I can here on the TeamSpeak more and more players telling that they do not want to do RvR anymore because it is “always the same”.

Always

• 25 x 1st rates (some obliged to use Oceans or preferring her, some using Victories if their nation allows it, battle marks obliged)
• or 25 x 4th rates (most Wasa’s by now, awaiting remaining Agamemnon’s to be sunk or burnt)
• Or 25 Heavy-Rattlesnakes or Mercuries (also depending on Nations CM’s) for shallow waters.

I would suggest a BR limit for Port Battle, this limit being a consequence of the tax recoveries during the last 2 weeks. So that important ports would have a BR limit of 16,250 (25 Santi’s), less important could decrease to 500 (25 Lynx, yes!) if no tax came from.

This would create a lot of variety in Port Battles:

• Would I prefer 25 Bellona’s or 16 Ocean’s when the PB limit is 100,000?
• Or a mixture including some 1t rates, some 2nd and 3rd rates and some frigates?...
• What will be my strategy? What’s about enemy choices?

Hoping that would help…

[Archaos]

This sort of proposal has been put forward many times and as far as I remember some of the main issues are

1. With BR limits how does the battle leader guarantee which ships get into the battle? What happens if someone turns up in a Santi when the battle leader was only planning to use Bellonas? 
2. For the port battle fleet sailing to a lower BR battle, they could be screened out easier by a larger BR screening fleet, similar to how first rates are used not to try and screen 4th rate port battles.
3. Whatever BR you set for a battle there will be an optimal setup found and this is what will become the norm leaving you in a similar position to what currently exists. This could be alleviated if as you suggest the BR limit is variable depending on the ports income.

Overall I like the idea as I think it would bring more variety to port battles, but some hurdles would have to be overcome.

[Hawkwood]

45 minutes ago, Eléazar de Damas said:

Port Battles are quite repetitive and I can here on the TeamSpeak more and more players telling that they do not want to do RvR anymore because it is “always the same”.

Always

• 25 x 1st rates (some obliged to use Oceans or preferring her, some using Victories if their nation allows it, battle marks obliged)
• or 25 x 4th rates (most Wasa’s by now, awaiting remaining Agamemnon’s to be sunk or burnt)
• Or 25 Heavy-Rattlesnakes or Mercuries (also depending on Nations CM’s) for shallow waters.

I would suggest a BR limit for Port Battle, this limit being a consequence of the tax recoveries during the last 2 weeks. So that important ports would have a BR limit of 16,250 (25 Santi’s), less important could decrease to 500 (25 Lynx, yes!) if no tax came from.

This would create a lot of variety in Port Battles:

• Would I prefer 25 Bellona’s or 16 Ocean’s when the PB limit is 100,000?
• Or a mixture including some 1t rates, some 2nd and 3rd rates and some frigates?...
• What will be my strategy? What’s about enemy choices?

Hoping that would help…

It would not help, and there is no need for another discussion about this. Variety in port battles makes no sense.

[admin]

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

[Liq]

1 minute ago, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

very true, and what about giving the clan controlling the port more control over the port battle type, e.g. make it so a small clan can set a PB to 10-15 players per side, and maybe even some BR mixing in that..?
Some players said that this suggestion of letting the clan decide the PB size would be nonsense because you shouldnt be able to tell a big attacking force outside a port that they magically can't join a port battle.. But there currently is a game mechanic which limits it to 25 already, even though sometiems there are way more players outside ready to join action. So basically its just a suggestion of adjusting an existing game mechanic, nothing totally new.

[Teutonic]

42 minutes ago, admin said:

Actually limited BR port battles are possible now because only clans can enter the port battle, and clans can control who enters them by adding or removing clans from the list. 

I will even like my post. I did not think of the possibilities that feature opens.
 

that's pretty cool, if clans can create their own BR limits for their port battles that could be the factor in limiting ship and player sizes!

[admin]

18 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Maybe with a BR system we should not talk about 4th rate PBs. Maybe we could end with this distintion between 4th and 1st rates PBs. With a BR system a flag captain can enter any portbatte, he wouldnt be limited to 4th PBs. Or the guy who like a lot the St Pavel can bring it to ALL port battles (except shallow ones).

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

[Teutonic]

Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Before you introduce this system (that sounds nice), you need to balance BR of all ships.

I heavily agree with this. currently BR doesn't mean jack, but if we do enter a BR limit to port battle, BR becomes an important balancing factor.

I would strongly wish for Ship balance, or if not ship balance, then with a BR limit to Port Battles you NEED a BR balance.

[seanjo]

Having taken part in a few Port Battles, I found them very boring....just a means to an end.

[Liq]

Can it be, 3rd rates getting a use again?

[Hawkwood]

Just let me ask you something....If in a Lineship port battle only 10 1st rates are supposed to be, who is going to take a 5th rate then? Or 4th?

This leads only to quarrel and misunderstanding.

As somebody stated already, and nothing changed since then, each nation/clan, can create his own fleet. And ofc, if a Lineship port is supposed to be conquered, who is supposed to join in a Surprise then? Although you could.

[Archaos]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

What about considering a variable BR for a port based on the ports tax income as suggested in the OP, that way you wont end up with a meta for the different sized port battles, or would that be too complicated?

 

[admin]

Just now, Cortez said:

Just let me ask you something....If in a Lineship port battle only 10 1st rates are supposed to be, who is going to take a 5th rate then? Or 4th?

This leads only to quarrel and misunderstanding.

As somebody stated already, and nothing changed since then, each nation/clan, can create his own fleet. And ofc, if a Lineship port is supposed to be conquered, who is supposed to join in a Surprise then? Although you could.

previously a nation could sail to a port battle and enter

now clan sails to port battle and enters. 
clan has full control over fleet composition
if a member does not comply - kick from clan

[Teutonic]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

indeed

Lineship PB = 6500 BR (so you can either take 10 first rates or a mixed fleet)
4th rate PB = 3500 BR (so you can take 5 first rates or a mixed fleet)

 

I really like, I think to make it "easier."

You should have maybe...say....3 predefined port battle limits for each port. so a "Lineship Port Battle" can now have a BR limit of say 13,500 -- 10,000 -- 6,500 (I'm throwing numbers out there).

Lineship - 13,500 -- 10,000 -- 6,500

4th Rate - 5,500 -- 4,000 -- 2,500

Something roughly like this, so groups can still have there "25 v 25" 1st rates, or you could have smaller batches? Or would that get too complicated? Maybe so...idk, but BR limits for PB based on Clan v Clan is awesome.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Teutonic

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

 

Something roughly like this, so groups can still have there "25 v 25" 1st rates, or you could have smaller batches? Or would that get too complicated

25v25 first rates will actually not happen at all
clans will have to carefully balance the fleet - scout enemy composition etc
did they take 5 first rates only or did they only take fast frigates and mortars…. 

so many opportunities open up for the variety of ships in port battles.

[Teutonic]

Just now, admin said:

25v25 will actually not happen at all
clans will have to carefully balance the fleet - scout enemy composition etc
did they take 5 first rates only or did they only take fast frigates and mortars…. 

so many opportunities open up for the variety of ships in port battles.

I'm in heaven.

although I do wish to see possible variation in BR limits for Port Battles! with BR variation you could make all ports "all different" so some deep water ports hold more 1st rates or some are more 4th/5th rate focused.

omg, please let it be so.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Teutonic

[Hawkwood]

2 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

Yes, "colourfull" port battles. It is going to be awesome.

Wut?

You can enter NOW with a Surprise a 1st rate PB...Whats the difference?

Although im not able to, i would ALWAYS take a 1st rate in a 1st rate PB, then a small frigate.

[Archaos]

You could even do away with first rate battles altogether and just have deep water and shallow water ports with a range of BR limits for each.

[Hawkwood]

Omg....This is going to kill RvR.

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Cortez said:

Wut?

You can enter NOW with a Surprise a 1st rate PB...Whats the difference?

Although im not able to, i would ALWAYS take a 1st rate in a 1st rate PB, then a small frigate.

? Right now the BR available is not limited, so logically you'd want to get as many heavies in as possible. But when there is a BR limit, e.g. 10'000 BR, you can't take 1st rates only anymore, so you'll have to figure out a nice mix of Lineships and supportive frigates, since 10 1st rates would most likely get wrecked versus 25 3rd rates (just an example)

[Archaos]

1 minute ago, Cortez said:

Wut?

You can enter NOW with a Surprise a 1st rate PB...Whats the difference?

Although im not able to, i would ALWAYS take a 1st rate in a 1st rate PB, then a small frigate.

The point is you would end up limiting the number of ships that could enter if they were all first rate. For example if the BR limit only allows 10 first rates but would allow 20 fourth rates (not based on actual figures) which would be better? or maybe you would be better off with a mix.

[Hawkwood]

3 minutes ago, Liq said:

? Right now the BR available is not limited, so logically you'd want to get as many heavies in as possible. But when there is a BR limit, e.g. 10'000 BR, you can't take 1st rates only anymore, so you'll have to figure out a nice mix of Lineships and supportive frigates, since 10 1st rates would most likely get wrecked versus 25 3rd rates (just an example)

That is exactly the problem.

Changing the PB BR, you need another PB mechanic,where it makes sense to have small frigates in battle. Otherwise those frigates will only lose their masts, and will be probably used as fireships and pawns.

Makes no sense to me at all.

[Teutonic]

3 minutes ago, Cortez said:

That is exactly the problem.

Changing the PB BR, you need another PB mechanic,where it makes sense to have small frigates in battle. Otherwise those frigates will only lose their masts, and will be probably used as fireships and pawns.

Makes no sense to me at all.

I...have no clue how it doesn't make sense to you.

with a BR limit you now have to go to the drawing board and with your group say "Hey, what should our fleet composition be like? Should we have 10 1st rates? 20 3rd rates? or a mix of lineships and 5th rates for some balance?"
"Oh idk, we should scout or expect x, y, or z from our enemy."
"ok, so if they are bringing 'this' what should we bring."

the layer of strategy now gets exponentially better.

EDIT:

Think of all the ships that are basically never used - think of the 3rd rate, outclassed entirely by the bellona, but when you look at BR, the 3rd rate is 350 (325? someone correct me if I'm wrong) and the Bellona is 400. suddenly the 3rd rate possibly has a use.

Suddenly battles aren't just the following
lineship - Ocean/Victory
4th - Wasa
shallow - Hvy Rattler

suddenly you have all the ships we have in the game at our disposal and there are possibilities to use all of them.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Teutonic

[Hawkwood]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Dont be so pessimistic.

I have been playing for a long time and I can tell you that the most fun battles I had were those with a variety of ships.

Even now most nations are totally lethargic about RvR, although you can do few clicks and create your own 4th rate ship!! All you need  are cannons.

And yet there are no many 4th rate PBs. You explain me why.

Do you really think changing BR, allowing frigates to join PB will change a f...g thing?

LOL.

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Cortez said:

That is exactly the problem.

Changing the PB BR, you need another PB mechanic,where it makes sense to have small frigates in battle. Otherwise those frigates will only lose their masts, and will be probably used as fireships and pawns.

Makes no sense to me at all.

Sounds like you should widen your horizons a bit.. I think it could be very interesting to get variety in PBs - Gotten very boring to keep seeing the same old 25 v 25 Victory Vs Victory battles. Frigates can be a pain in the ... for lineships, of course you can commit do demasting them but then you'll be lacking the firepower onto the enemy lineships...