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Foreign clan alliances


clan alliances  

201 members have voted

  1. 1. Allow foreign clan entry rights to Port battles

    • Yes
      152
    • No.
      50


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Just now, rediii said:

Most people get realy upsrt if they lose stuff. Your clanwars would end in 1 clan bullied out or no end of this clanwar or no supporting each other in the future. I dont think that 2 clans fight each other for a time and after 1 week of shooting everything is fine and they play together again. :D

Well like we saw with the pirates, it was rare for them to have to deal with this. Once goals and hierarchy was established smaller clans fell in line. Bullying into complete submission/disband was only necessary in extreme cases of disorderly/uncooperative clans

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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3 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Again this starts requiring more complex RoE so you know who is friend or foe. Just simply do away with nations and allow full clan war. People can fly whatever flag they want but others will be either enemy, neutral or friend to them no matter what flag they fly.

Not necessary. Its already possible to do 1v2 in any battle by simply joining their side. Only further coding would make this polished enough to allow proper doubling up with clear indication outside and inside battle who is fighting with who for what. Which could be as simple as creating sub categories on the leaderboard for different clans/nations and displaying that info on the OW

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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5 minutes ago, rediii said:

So current problems right now is more the situation outside and not inside a portbattle. (brits cant fight brits ... same nation cant fight same nation)

- Problem of lack battlegroups  to avoid useless sailshooting screening

- Problem of tagging each other to warp to pb and avoid ow battles

My proposal:

Clanfriendlists afe requests to other clans which have to be accepted. Accepted friends only get active at maintenance. Friends cant attack each other on OW. friends can form a battlegroup - gets realy weird if several nations + clans are involved and some are not on friendlist with eachother

Or kill friendlists and create a group that forms of a cooperation of different clans that cant attack each other. Makes RoE easier and basically enables clanwars(?) Owner of coorperation can invite clans and the cooperation cant attack each other

Warp can still be used with alts but thats possible right now aswell already

This is where we sit now. Not much we as players can do beyond this outline. Obviously there's balancing, exploit, and coding issues that need to be looked at but as players this is a great set up. This would be a huge step forward for the game to get this in

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

First question: I trust in the devs capabilities to make that work perfectly.

Pirates are pirates, they could join every side of a battle. You just have to deal with it. Hire or convince them to join your side.

Well the first part of your statement is your big mistake, the Devs are attempting to produce a great game, but they need the testers to point out the flaws. What initially may sound like a good idea does not always work in practice as we have seen so many times. I think a lot of people in this topic are just looking at the suggestion from the point of filling the port battles rather than the bigger picture of how you even get to the part of the port battle.

As for my example of Pirates, what if it were the Swedes who attacked the French instead of Pirates, would one French clan help the other if they knew that shortly after they would be fighting each other in a port battle? I'm not saying its not possible, I'm just pointing out that it can become very confusing and complicated which could in the end upset players.

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If this makes the game less nation based and more clan based, YES.  

I'd love to see a system where if you want more of a PVE/Casual focus to the game, you join one of the big 3 (historically) nations in the Caribbean.  GB, France, Spain.  This will provide players with safe zones to grind level and build basic ships.  These nations cannot ally with other nations, but employ letters of marque as mercenaries to help fight for the cause.  The more hardcore players will join the smaller nations and become mercenary companies to one of the big 3 or try and strike it out on their own and create their own territory.  This would provide security and the casual game to the "carebear" crowd and still give the Hardcore RVR folks something to do while fighting over the scraps left behind by the central powers.

Then of course you have the pirates, who aren't a nation and simply act as reavers 100% of the time.  

Edited by Christendom
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You test it first on Global.

http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22954-norfolk’s-three-steps-to-heaven-or-hell…/

The way to make "Privateer" or Civil War is to limit the behaviour by a timed OFFSET.

In my example of [ARMED] attacking [ELITE]... they would need to purchase some kind of timed mechanic. A Governors Permit saying allowing 7 RL days worth of assault on a Clan. This would have a cool off period to  stop stacking say three days. If [ARMED] wanted to hire [HYDRA] a privateer contract would be needed and again as time decay.

The key is or in @admininterest is TIME DECAY to retain control. Civil War will only work if in a limited fashion an not a total  chaos environment. The Pirate Mechanic could fit beautifully within this and you I suggest so much better than having other Nations assist in PBs... 

 

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20 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The flaws can be solved by rules and tweaks/fixes, as every mechanic implemented in the game. The idea is good and will solve a lot of the current issues with RvR.

 

 

So what rules and tweaks would you put in place to solve the issues I have raised in my examples? or is that just left to the Devs to solve and then we complain when they implement a solution that we do not like? 

You are looking at it from the point of solving one problem, but are likely to create many other problems.

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9 minutes ago, Archaos said:

So what rules and tweaks would you put in place to solve the issues I have raised in my examples? or is that just left to the Devs to solve and then we complain when they implement a solution that we do not like? 

You are looking at it from the point of solving one problem, but are likely to create many other problems.

With that logic we might as well not add anything new because it can cause problems.

Its time to put our balls on the ice and pump this update out full commitment with trust in the devs

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

It depends on implementation.

And mate, Im getting headaches with your "if".

This will solve ONE mayor issue happening right now. And you would like to throw to the bin because it could "likely to create many other problems"... come on, man.

Read my posts, I'm not saying throw it out, I'm saying if they want to go this route then simply introduce clan warfare and forget the nation overlay. You can fly any flag you want for your clan but as far as the game would be concerned anyone not in your clan is either friendly, enemy or neutral depending on how your clan sets them with the default being neutral that automatically changes to enemy if you attack them.

Let clans create alliances with each other but if you can only have clans allied that are friendly or neutral to each other. e.g. Clan A wants Clan B and Clan C as allies but they can only have both as allies if Clan B and C are friendly or neutral to each other.

A much simpler solution that would avoid all the rules, tweaks and fixes that the current suggestion would entail.

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5 minutes ago, Archaos said:

Read my posts, I'm not saying throw it out, I'm saying if they want to go this route then simply introduce clan warfare and forget the nation overlay. You can fly any flag you want for your clan but as far as the game would be concerned anyone not in your clan is either friendly, enemy or neutral depending on how your clan sets them with the default being neutral that automatically changes to enemy if you attack them.

Let clans create alliances with each other but if you can only have clans allied that are friendly or neutral to each other. e.g. Clan A wants Clan B and Clan C as allies but they can only have both as allies if Clan B and C are friendly or neutral to each other.

A much simpler solution that would avoid all the rules, tweaks and fixes that the current suggestion would entail.

We don't have to do that

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3 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

Solutions for screening within nation:

1. In order to join PB whole fleet must be in battle group. Battle group will be dragged into combat if screened

2. A bit more hardcore, but waters around PB port become FFA. Friends still won't attack friends.

I read this previously but it still does not make things clear, it only takes into account those that will enter the port battle, what about allied clans that cant enter the battle because its full? They are left outside in the FFA and can theoretically now be facing other clans from the same nation.

Friends will not attack friends but what about the rules for who gets drawn into a battle? If another nation clan friendly to you gets drawn into a battle against another clan in the same nation who do they fight for? Will green on green be allowed?

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1 hour ago, HachiRoku said:

Why not limit it to pirates only? We should not be able to have port battles ourselves but giving us the option do be mercs would be a nice exclusive.

Uhm ... from what you wrote in another thread I assumed that your exclusive was ganking other pirates outside Mortimer :rolleyes: (and allying with brits, but that's another story, isn't it? :D).

Anyway the idea of the OP seems good to me.

Edited by victor
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Anything that gets players onto the OW fighting each other should be tried, tested and tinkered with until it works the way the playerbase and devs want it to

 

we should not shy away from testing different mechanics and those who are too set in their ways or too jaded to see that changes are needed should be ignored as they are not helping the game

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What would be the goal of this mechanic?

It might help smaller nations but at the expense of creating a big mess. Instead I'd rather see pure clan wars which will put internal pressure on largest nations and make it harder to maintain their power.

1. Clan vs Clan okay.

2. Protected home waters for entire nation. Green on green attacks within those waters can call AI reinforcements for defenders.

3. Port ownership status of Open to Nation, Open to Clan and Friendly, or Open to All.

If the 3 conditions above were implemented THEN the proposal in the survey would work better.

Edited by Farrago
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Thick NO

This moves NA in a direction which has been in WarGaming for years.
Why should you play NA? Because of the sailing ships?
That would be for me the farewell after 2500 hours of play from NA ....

Test it as a variant for NA Legends, and nothing else!

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Just now, erde_m said:

Thick NO

This moves NA in a direction which has been in WarGaming for years.
Why should you play NA? Because of the sailing ships?
That would be for me the farewell after 2500 hours of play from NA ....

Test it as a variant for NA Legends, and nothing else!

I challenge you to expand this in a way that makes sense.

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5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

It can and PVP Global Pirates are direct proof of that. Clans that weren't working with the nation were purged. No need to ally outside clans to fight proxy wars against rouge clans in the nation. They just dealt with them head on and they ended up being the strongest nation on global for a time.

Hay now it was only one clan that was pretty much full of US supporters and one known (now confirmed alt as he's in Pirates now fully).  For the other clans we have pretty much told them don't do things without letting us know cause we prob won't support you.  As TRR is finding out when they went to hit those shallow ports in the gulf.  They actually came to me last night asking if they pissed us off and I told them know, but if you run off and do things on your own your not going to get support of the other clans period.  But I do admit it does come in handy and I believe another clan has threaten them cause of some of there actions, every nation going to have those trouble makters, just pirates have a means to keep them in line.

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Yes. just have clan wars, no need to make green on green a thing, no need to get rid of nations. Just let one clan declare a war on another in a nation, give it a 1 day buffer so people can prepare. and let those clans deal with it. 

Make in nation clan wars last 7 days. That is plenty of time for things to be settled without extreme devastation.

Battles aren't an issue as long as it shows the clans as well like we see with PBs. People can join the side of their clan/allies. If they accidently pick the wrong side that's too bad. Green on green is still against the rules. As long as when I roll up to the battle clans are clearly listed on both sides, aswell as nation then I'll join the right side every time. Battlegroups can make this pretty much foolproof 

I would keep the nation vs same nation thing to clan wars of ports only.  I don't think it should be an open world thing.  Just see how much folks will get all butt hurt over it.  Though I'm still all for removing pirates from RvR and making clans have the option to be Privateers for a nation and the clanless can be the true pirates/outlaws.  Lets test this on pirates for sure.  Hell you never know than you might have a certain Pirate clan fighting on your side or some one else that doesn't want a carebear alliance.

4 hours ago, rediii said:

Most people get realy upsrt if they lose stuff. Your clanwars would end in 1 clan bullied out or no end of this clanwar or no supporting each other in the future. I dont think that 2 clans fight each other for a time and after 1 week of shooting everything is fine and they play together again. :D

 

I don't know VCO and BLACK had some pretty nastie past and we are now fighting side by side since they rolled over to Pirates.  Some folks will just never give up old grudges and others are fine with switching who they fight every week.  This is why we keep telling the other nations if they just drop old past grudges and maybe ask us to screen/help them they can get a powerfull clan to back them, but now pirates are evil and they must all die....lol

4 hours ago, HachiRoku said:

Why not limit it to pirates only? We should not be able to have port battles ourselves but giving us the option do be mercs would be a nice exclusive.

Lets test this on pirates and make them Privateer where clans can enlist them self out for other nations clans as Mercs/Privateers and give us something unique. If you don't want to get involved in RvR part of the game stay solo or not have a contract and than you will be just a pirate/outlaw.  If you want to be a part of the RvR than your clan needs to get a Letter of Marque and become mercs for said clan/nation.  I would do just like I posted above Mercs have 7 day contracts that you can set to auto renew on MWO.   I would leave the auto renew off and just make it 7 days at a time and it cost that nation to hire out the clan for the week.  That way they can fight for Brits one week and french the next week and even help fill small nations port battles to help them win some fights.

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Lets test this on pirates and make them Privateer where clans can enlist them self out for other nations clans as Mercs/Privateers and give us something unique. If you don't want to get involved in RvR part of the game stay solo or not have a contract and than you will be just a pirate/outlaw.  If you want to be a part of the RvR than your clan needs to get a Letter of Marque and become mercs for said clan/nation.  I would do just like I posted above Mercs have 7 day contracts that you can set to auto renew on MWO.   I would leave the auto renew off and just make it 7 days at a time and it cost that nation to hire out the clan for the week.  That way they can fight for Brits one week and french the next week and even help fill small nations port battles to help them win some fights.

This would be very nice and would finally give pirates some unique flavour. I would like to see that and maybe even come back to vanilla NA for it, playing more active again.

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Ok I got fed up with reading most of this at page 3 sorry for any good posts from then on, 

 

its is very clear to me pvp Eu and pvp global want two very different things here.

and until @admin or @Ink allow the two servers to be completly split this back and forth between us will just get worse and possibly just get abusive.

 

adding this rule to EU clearly works for them,they have there comfy RVR time slot they have balance across there nations which is good congrats to them I'm happy for them, 

 

however pvp global is one step away from having every one take the black imagine being a new player and every port is black and every player is in the black, a new player would just quit. 

We actually want open warefare inter nation and outer nation why can't global have this? I don't see any reason why,were happy becoming war company's and represent a specific flag. Just look at @Norfolk nChance thread on this three steps to hevan or hell 

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well it can bring more dynamic to the game 

it is probably not a very used option ,but in some cases, it will do the trick

but the idea that pirates can join  clan nation pb  is a bit too far for me (i just don't see them(pirates) as a worthy civilized nation) :wacko: 

perhaps in screening form OW , they can join ,.... but not PB.

 

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5 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I don't know VCO and BLACK had some pretty nastie past and we are now fighting side by side since they rolled over to Pirates.  Some folks will just never give up old grudges and others are fine with switching who they fight every week.  This is why we keep telling the other nations if they just drop old past grudges and maybe ask us to screen/help them they can get a powerfull clan to back them, but now pirates are evil and they must all die....lol

Grudges are founded on the result of past behavior, which with the same personalities involved is the most likely indicator of future behavior. 

 

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