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Dibbler

An answer to lack of PvP perhaps

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 Just an idea to give people who want PvP almost immediate access to multi-player cross nation battles.

 Why not introduce a new type of mission that people take and wait in a queue, when enough people they enter a 5v5 to 25v25 depending on player queue at the time from other nations and their own.  Make battles immediate instance type affairs and call them "Patrol duty Missions",  and re-introduce PvP marks that are awarded in these that can be saved to maybe buy more production slots,  paints, sails with designs, or whatever you as devs think would be appropriate.

 Or perhaps allow a mission type where AI ships are controlled by players in the same mission format as you have currently.

 This way people who want an instant PvP hit can do so when not enough time to raid or whatever.

 

 Thoughts/suggestion?

 

Captain Dibbler

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we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

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15 minutes ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

Problem of pvp marks was the forced ganking around capitals. With safezones its a realy good idea to bring them back in my oppinion. :)

 

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24 minutes ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

Hey. This is a good thing to bring back.

But we also need a better way of finding PVP. Bring in blockade missions for marks and I bet you'll see a healthy return in PVP

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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26 minutes ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

please dont do that, it wont help anythink. the game needs more players, thats why there is a lack of PVP.

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Just now, Rickard said:

please dont do that, it wont help anythink. the game needs more players, thats why there is a lack of PVP.

But the players that are here need rewards for making hour long sails to PVP. They also need missions to promote such actions by giving direct rewards whether they find PVP or not. Eventually PVP will be strong, players will follow

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

But the players that are here need rewards for making hour long sails to PVP. They also need missions to promote such actions by giving direct rewards whether they find PVP or not. Eventually PVP will be strong.

no they realy dont, there has been enough PVP on both server and I have not heard anyone complain about this in the game.

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2 minutes ago, Rickard said:

please dont do that, it wont help anythink. the game needs more players, thats why there is a lack of PVP.

Server has 520 players and only 10-15 are in combat news/pvp leaderboard. Where are the other 500 players, sitting in port, safe zone, doing PvE, trading? 

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Just now, Peter Goldman said:

Server has 520 players and only 10-15 are in combat news/pvp leaderboard. Where are the other 500 players, sitting in port, safe zone, doing PvE, trading? 

so...? if you weant more PVP go out and find it.

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45 minutes ago, Rickard said:

no they realy dont, there has been enough PVP on both server and I have not heard anyone complain about this in the game.

Yeah mate that's simply not true. You don't hear people complain about lack of PVP in game because its not something they themselves can do anything about. Its a mechanics issue. Sure we can set up friendly PBs but its not the same as getting real cold blooded PVP.

44 minutes ago, Rickard said:

so...? if you weant more PVP go out and find it.

Let me show you what this sentence means to a PVPer.

"so...? If you want more PVP just sail dozens of hours around a mostly empty map looking for PVP that you probably won't find, and if you do find it you're lucky to get a substantial kill that comes close to netting you fair return for the huge time and effort investment you put in looking for the most basic thing you'd expect from a server called "PVP".

now you see why no one feels like trying to "go out and look" for PVP? Its extremely hard to find, takes hours to find and the rewards are hardly worth the time.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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3 minutes ago, Rickard said:

so...? if you weant more PVP go out and find it.

really... ? If you want more PvE go to the PvE server.

 

People who advocate against PvP and PvP rewards on the PvP Server just give me cancer. The problem with PvP marks was that new players got farmed for them but as rediii already mentioned this is not a problem anymore since we have greenzones around the capitals now. I always try to side with new players and casuals but now with greenzones there is no excuse anymore unless you play pirates where you actually get sealclubbed by your own nation in outlaw battles ( at least on the EU server there is alot of drama about it ), which happens even without PvP marks. Even if some people don't like greenzones they solve alot of problems and do alot of good for new players...

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1 minute ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Yeah mate that's simply not true. You don't hear people complain about lack of PVP in game because its not something they themselves can do anything about. Its a mechanics issue. Sure we can set up friendly PBs but its not the same as getting real cold blooded PVP.

Let me show you what this sentence means to a PVPer.

"so...? If you want more PVP just sail dozens of hours around a mostly empty map looking for PVP that you probably won't find, and if you do find it you're lucky to get a substantial kill that comes close to netting you fair return for the huge time and effort investment you put in looking for the most basic thing you expect from a game called "Naval Action".

now you see why no one feels like trying to "go out and look" for PVP?

PVP is not a mechanic. its a player made situation.

all that this game needs is more population, so please stop suggesting to the devs to change existing mechanics again. the devs should focuss on getting more content in the game and not your personal wishes. due to players whinning about everythink the whole time we are where we are right now instead of having to play a Viable game with lots of thinks todo.

nothing personal tho

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2 minutes ago, Captain Lust said:

really... ? If you want more PvE go to the PvE server.

 

People who advocate against PvP and PvP rewards on the PvP Server just give me cancer. The problem with PvP marks was that new players got farmed for them but as rediii already mentioned this is not a problem anymore since we have greenzones around the capitals now. I always try to side with new players and casuals but now with greenzones there is no excuse anymore unless you play pirates where you actually get sealclubbed by your own nation in outlaw battles ( at least on the EU server there is alot of drama about it ), which happens even without PvP marks. Even if some people don't like greenzones they solve alot of problems and do alot of good for new players...

I dont advocate against PVP and I think that the PVE server is a utter failures wich should be removed, but please stop suggestinng thinks that dont help to get the game to the next level.

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PvP enabled server, it's optional not compulsary.

Biggest problem is lack of players.

And because it works in WoW which has a matchmaking system i believe, doesnt  mean it's a good idea in a sandbox.

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14 minutes ago, Rickard said:

PVP is not a mechanic. its a player made situation.

all that this game needs is more population, so please stop suggesting to the devs to change existing mechanics again. the devs should focuss on getting more content in the game and not your personal wishes. due to players whinning about everythink the whole time we are where we are right now instead of having to play a Viable game with lots of thinks todo.

nothing personal tho

PVP IS the content. RVR, trading, crafting, clans, nations, alliances, war. All revolves around PVP. Without mechanics that support PVP, everything that builds up to it is redundant.

PVP is the reason why 90% of people play the game for one reason or the other. The pursuit of wealth, power, ships, and territory is the pursuit of PVP/RVR. You trade, build ships, acquire wealth and ports so you're able to PVP, or help your nation/clan PVP. That's what the PVP server is for, PVP is the only content that doesn't get boring. Population won't grow unless PVP is accessible and rewarding.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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7 hours ago, Dibbler said:

Why not introduce a new type of mission that people take and wait in a queue, when enough people they enter a 5v5 to 25v25 depending on player queue at the time from other nations and their own.

This is Legends, it won't be in NA where OW needs to be accounted for

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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Quality of life features such as ship tow, extra outpost or ship slots or something other people can think of may help people find pvp, more so than the addition of an extra currency.

Edited by Ravern

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32 minutes ago, Rickard said:

I dont advocate against PVP

PvP rewards promote PvP and being against them thus means you're against more PvP. If you aren't against PvP on the PvP server why are you against PvP rewards? ...

51 minutes ago, Rickard said:

there has been enough PVP on both server and I have not heard anyone complain about this in the game

This is a blatant lie and you know it.

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2 hours ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

How is it proposed to stop fake PvP for the farming of PvP marks?

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21 minutes ago, Archaos said:

How is it proposed to stop fake PvP for the farming of PvP marks?

That wasn't as big of a problem as it was made out to be. The few people who did try to do this were promptly banned after a quick look at the logs. 

edit: This is directly farming your alts for pvp marks

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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If you introduce a conversion combat marks to pvp marks please make it big enough. Out of my mind I would say something around 100-150 combat marks each pvp mark since combatmark farming is very easy and several people have thousands of these

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2 hours ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

Why dont you make marks soulbound then, thats how it works in WOW and most games with serious reward systems. Reward personal effort, and even rich players are promoted to take part in the action. People that dont like PvP should accept that they dont have easy access to everything in a PvP game.

In those reward systems also loosing matters, to reward good players, not only those with most time to play. Your personal rewards depend on how active and how good you play.

Victory marks can work similar, like suggested already. Your nation gets marks depending on its RvR success, and those marks are distributed to players after their personal PvP success. Then people are promoted to fight for their nations success instead of grinding PvP somewhere just for marks. 

Also alts cant be used to farm marks when marks are soulbound, aswell as permits you buy for marks, aswell as ships using a permit. Required and suggested already is that not the shipbuilder uses the permit, but the person actually sailing that ship. Just add an additional nonpermanent slot for a permit.

 

1 hour ago, Rickard said:

PVP is not a mechanic. its a player made situation.

PvP relies on lots of mechanics and balancings to work. RoE, combat mechanics, RvR mechanics, reward mechanics, item value/eco balancing, ship/wood/upgrade/skill balancing, etc. Player count relies on all mechanics and balancings. 

Current mechanics just dont promote good PvP. NA is currently forcing people into the open world that are not willing to fight in that moment, but at the same time does everything to allow these guys to avoid all combat. Whats that logic?! The reason why they didnt allow tow to port was to bring more ships to the open world. Thats the theory, in reality people sail in large groups, use safe routs on open water, or times with lower population. Then nobody thought about the ships that are missing now at places where people would actually be willing to PvP and search for fights. Once again you can tell that nobody thought this through to the end. 

In general people are promoted to "gank", to use fast weak ships that can escape all even fights. Probably a result of very simple RoE mechancis, very simple repair mechanics, bad balancing for all ship related stuff, speedcap, etc.

Edited by Fargo
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2 hours ago, admin said:

we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 

Don't see it as a bad thing, we can't please every one and lets be blunt if you don't make some content special that you have to do special content to get than folks won't do it.  Every game i been on if you want the elite gear you have to do the elite missions and raids or buy said gear off some one that grinds it.  You can't just go hay Dev I want that too, but I"m going to sit over here in safe zone.  Hell most games lock the best gear being PvP and such that you can't even get through PvE or buying cause it's locked to your char.   Though this does't have to be the best of the best stuff.  Paints is number one thing I keep hearing folks saying they want back and I bet folks will pay big for it.  Drop it in the PvP marks store and still allow them to drop in shipwreck event chest and maybe random shipwreck bottles.  Than pick a few ships that aren't key in port battles that you can only get through PvP.  The plain Rattler, Niagara maybe some new 5 rate or even 3rd rate that we haven't seen, but nothing at the top of the port battle tiers.  Hell the Prince would of been another good one to have in the shop.  Or just give out special skin version of the ships that normal players can craft.  Exact same states but the skin is different on these ships.

2 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Hey. This is a good thing to bring back.

But we also need a better way of finding PVP. Bring in blockade missions for marks and I bet you'll see a healthy return in PVP

Combat news could be used to announce when you finish the first Hostiltiy mission on a port so to alert folks that it's going up.   Though I think a red ping/dot on the map around a port would be good too.

19 minutes ago, rediii said:

If you introduce a conversion combat marks to pvp marks please make it big enough. Out of my mind I would say something around 100-150 combat marks each pvp mark since combatmark farming is very easy and several people have thousands of these

You really shouldn't be able to convert something up into another marks.  They should only be able to down grand them. Victory Marks into PvP Marks, PvP or Victory Marks into Combat Marks, but never the other way back. If you want something though you can pay for it with gold though and get it from some one else. 

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Just now, Fargo said:

Why dont you make marks soulbound then, thats how it works in WOW and most games with serious reward systems.

Strongly agree with this.

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