Dibbler (Retired) Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just an idea to give people who want PvP almost immediate access to multi-player cross nation battles. Why not introduce a new type of mission that people take and wait in a queue, when enough people they enter a 5v5 to 25v25 depending on player queue at the time from other nations and their own. Make battles immediate instance type affairs and call them "Patrol duty Missions", and re-introduce PvP marks that are awarded in these that can be saved to maybe buy more production slots, paints, sails with designs, or whatever you as devs think would be appropriate. Or perhaps allow a mission type where AI ships are controlled by players in the same mission format as you have currently. This way people who want an instant PvP hit can do so when not enough time to raid or whatever. Thoughts/suggestion? Captain Dibbler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. Hey. This is a good thing to bring back. But we also need a better way of finding PVP. Bring in blockade missions for marks and I bet you'll see a healthy return in PVP Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Just now, Rickard said: please dont do that, it wont help anythink. the game needs more players, thats why there is a lack of PVP. But the players that are here need rewards for making hour long sails to PVP. They also need missions to promote such actions by giving direct rewards whether they find PVP or not. Eventually PVP will be strong, players will follow Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Rickard said: no they realy dont, there has been enough PVP on both server and I have not heard anyone complain about this in the game. Yeah mate that's simply not true. You don't hear people complain about lack of PVP in game because its not something they themselves can do anything about. Its a mechanics issue. Sure we can set up friendly PBs but its not the same as getting real cold blooded PVP. 44 minutes ago, Rickard said: so...? if you weant more PVP go out and find it. Let me show you what this sentence means to a PVPer. "so...? If you want more PVP just sail dozens of hours around a mostly empty map looking for PVP that you probably won't find, and if you do find it you're lucky to get a substantial kill that comes close to netting you fair return for the huge time and effort investment you put in looking for the most basic thing you'd expect from a server called "PVP". now you see why no one feels like trying to "go out and look" for PVP? Its extremely hard to find, takes hours to find and the rewards are hardly worth the time. Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lust Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rickard said: so...? if you weant more PVP go out and find it. really... ? If you want more PvE go to the PvE server. People who advocate against PvP and PvP rewards on the PvP Server just give me cancer. The problem with PvP marks was that new players got farmed for them but as rediii already mentioned this is not a problem anymore since we have greenzones around the capitals now. I always try to side with new players and casuals but now with greenzones there is no excuse anymore unless you play pirates where you actually get sealclubbed by your own nation in outlaw battles ( at least on the EU server there is alot of drama about it ), which happens even without PvP marks. Even if some people don't like greenzones they solve alot of problems and do alot of good for new players... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravern Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 PvP enabled server, it's optional not compulsary. Biggest problem is lack of players. And because it works in WoW which has a matchmaking system i believe, doesnt mean it's a good idea in a sandbox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rickard said: PVP is not a mechanic. its a player made situation. all that this game needs is more population, so please stop suggesting to the devs to change existing mechanics again. the devs should focuss on getting more content in the game and not your personal wishes. due to players whinning about everythink the whole time we are where we are right now instead of having to play a Viable game with lots of thinks todo. nothing personal tho PVP IS the content. RVR, trading, crafting, clans, nations, alliances, war. All revolves around PVP. Without mechanics that support PVP, everything that builds up to it is redundant. PVP is the reason why 90% of people play the game for one reason or the other. The pursuit of wealth, power, ships, and territory is the pursuit of PVP/RVR. You trade, build ships, acquire wealth and ports so you're able to PVP, or help your nation/clan PVP. That's what the PVP server is for, PVP is the only content that doesn't get boring. Population won't grow unless PVP is accessible and rewarding. Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Dibbler said: Why not introduce a new type of mission that people take and wait in a queue, when enough people they enter a 5v5 to 25v25 depending on player queue at the time from other nations and their own. This is Legends, it won't be in NA where OW needs to be accounted for Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravern Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) Quality of life features such as ship tow, extra outpost or ship slots or something other people can think of may help people find pvp, more so than the addition of an extra currency. Edited October 4, 2017 by Ravern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Lust Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, Rickard said: I dont advocate against PVP PvP rewards promote PvP and being against them thus means you're against more PvP. If you aren't against PvP on the PvP server why are you against PvP rewards? ... 51 minutes ago, Rickard said: there has been enough PVP on both server and I have not heard anyone complain about this in the game This is a blatant lie and you know it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. How is it proposed to stop fake PvP for the farming of PvP marks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Archaos said: How is it proposed to stop fake PvP for the farming of PvP marks? That wasn't as big of a problem as it was made out to be. The few people who did try to do this were promptly banned after a quick look at the logs. edit: This is directly farming your alts for pvp marks Edited October 4, 2017 by Slim Jimmerson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armored_Sheep Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 If you don´t like alts, pls don´t introduce PvP marks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. Why dont you make marks soulbound then, thats how it works in WOW and most games with serious reward systems. Reward personal effort, and even rich players are promoted to take part in the action. People that dont like PvP should accept that they dont have easy access to everything in a PvP game. In those reward systems also loosing matters, to reward good players, not only those with most time to play. Your personal rewards depend on how active and how good you play. Victory marks can work similar, like suggested already. Your nation gets marks depending on its RvR success, and those marks are distributed to players after their personal PvP success. Then people are promoted to fight for their nations success instead of grinding PvP somewhere just for marks. Also alts cant be used to farm marks when marks are soulbound, aswell as permits you buy for marks, aswell as ships using a permit. Required and suggested already is that not the shipbuilder uses the permit, but the person actually sailing that ship. Just add an additional nonpermanent slot for a permit. 1 hour ago, Rickard said: PVP is not a mechanic. its a player made situation. PvP relies on lots of mechanics and balancings to work. RoE, combat mechanics, RvR mechanics, reward mechanics, item value/eco balancing, ship/wood/upgrade/skill balancing, etc. Player count relies on all mechanics and balancings. Current mechanics just dont promote good PvP. NA is currently forcing people into the open world that are not willing to fight in that moment, but at the same time does everything to allow these guys to avoid all combat. Whats that logic?! The reason why they didnt allow tow to port was to bring more ships to the open world. Thats the theory, in reality people sail in large groups, use safe routs on open water, or times with lower population. Then nobody thought about the ships that are missing now at places where people would actually be willing to PvP and search for fights. Once again you can tell that nobody thought this through to the end. In general people are promoted to "gank", to use fast weak ships that can escape all even fights. Probably a result of very simple RoE mechancis, very simple repair mechanics, bad balancing for all ship related stuff, speedcap, etc. Edited October 4, 2017 by Fargo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 2 hours ago, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. Don't see it as a bad thing, we can't please every one and lets be blunt if you don't make some content special that you have to do special content to get than folks won't do it. Every game i been on if you want the elite gear you have to do the elite missions and raids or buy said gear off some one that grinds it. You can't just go hay Dev I want that too, but I"m going to sit over here in safe zone. Hell most games lock the best gear being PvP and such that you can't even get through PvE or buying cause it's locked to your char. Though this does't have to be the best of the best stuff. Paints is number one thing I keep hearing folks saying they want back and I bet folks will pay big for it. Drop it in the PvP marks store and still allow them to drop in shipwreck event chest and maybe random shipwreck bottles. Than pick a few ships that aren't key in port battles that you can only get through PvP. The plain Rattler, Niagara maybe some new 5 rate or even 3rd rate that we haven't seen, but nothing at the top of the port battle tiers. Hell the Prince would of been another good one to have in the shop. Or just give out special skin version of the ships that normal players can craft. Exact same states but the skin is different on these ships. 2 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said: Hey. This is a good thing to bring back. But we also need a better way of finding PVP. Bring in blockade missions for marks and I bet you'll see a healthy return in PVP Combat news could be used to announce when you finish the first Hostiltiy mission on a port so to alert folks that it's going up. Though I think a red ping/dot on the map around a port would be good too. 19 minutes ago, rediii said: If you introduce a conversion combat marks to pvp marks please make it big enough. Out of my mind I would say something around 100-150 combat marks each pvp mark since combatmark farming is very easy and several people have thousands of these You really shouldn't be able to convert something up into another marks. They should only be able to down grand them. Victory Marks into PvP Marks, PvP or Victory Marks into Combat Marks, but never the other way back. If you want something though you can pay for it with gold though and get it from some one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Fargo said: Why dont you make marks soulbound then, thats how it works in WOW and most games with serious reward systems. Strongly agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Texas Sir Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Just now, Slim Jimmerson said: Strongly agree with this. As I stated before most games have PvP content locked to players and can't even be traded. I'm all for the fact if you wan the PvP content you need to get out and PvP. If you don't want to PvP you still have all the tools to play the game, you just don't get the big shiney prizes the pvp guys get even if this means that content will be locked to that player and only that player. I brought up a way to add this to ships. 5th slot can only be unlocked through PvP xp gained only. You can unlock it early if you only do PvP (xp still goes torwards the other slots). So PvP players are the only way to get that one slot unlocked. If you unlock all 5 slots you get a special paint for that ship to show that it's elite. Than folks will know they are fighting an elite player and maybe give special rewards for the kill/capture of such ships (xp boost?) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 23 hours ago, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. One suggestion: when PVP marks were ingame, they were extremely rare due to lack of PVP, so there wasn't (and I think there will not be in the future) an actual market for PVP marks, since PVPers just will be farming them and the few marks that will be put on the market will be put at vary high prices, so that nobody will actually buy them. The problem of OS small scale PVP is that there are a few "skilled" hardcore players (I'd say no more than three dozens in PVP EU) that can sink anyone else due to their superior experience (and in the future, with the PVP marks, to their superior PVP gear). This situation would prevent other players to try OS PVP, since - if they meet one of those players - they are simply dead with no escape and no reward. I do think that OS PVP should instead be "extended" also to "other" players. And this could be acheived giving a huge flat reward (let's say 10 PVP marks) for a victory in a PVP combat but adding also a variable number of marks (let's say from 2 to 7) given for the damage dealt by each part in the battle: this way the weak part of a PVP engagement will be induced to fight back and some players could actually think about beginning their "OS PVP career". And - maybe - also give just one PVP mark for a total loss with no actual damage (so also pure traders can get a little reward for being gank ... err for being a part of a PVP battle). This way OS PVP could become more popular (or - if you prefer - less hated) also in "the non hardcore PVPers" player community. Edited October 5, 2017 by victor 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HachiRoku Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 I don't think it's a game problem. We simply have a community that doesn't like competitive gaming. Sometimes I think that the last 4 ranks should only be reachable with pvp xp and if you don't pvp for a while you loose your level again. Marks will not fix it, a new community might..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbler (Retired) Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share Posted October 5, 2017 35 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: I don't think it's a game problem. We simply have a community that doesn't like competitive gaming. Sometimes I think that the last 4 ranks should only be reachable with pvp xp and if you don't pvp for a while you loose your level again. Marks will not fix it, a new community might..... I don't think it's a matter of the community not liking PvP, you will get all types of player within any gaming community. For more PvP you need to entice players with some kind of benefit that they cannot gain elsewhere, so they will willingly enter PvP for it.. You can't force people to do something, only draw them in with a carrot of some kind. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victor Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 57 minutes ago, HachiRoku said: I don't think it's a game problem. We simply have a community that doesn't like competitive gaming. Sometimes I think that the last 4 ranks should only be reachable with pvp xp and if you don't pvp for a while you loose your level again. Marks will not fix it, a new community might..... Well, TBH top ranks - if ever - should be reserved to RvR players (since they actually are the ones that need to use often Ships of the line). Most "hardcore" OS PVPers roam around - almost always - in 5th rates like surprise or pirate firgates, so they wouldn't need top ranks. Besides that, the real point is that if the 70% of the PVP EU server community likes PVE more than PVP, the only way to "change the community" is not bringing ahead the usual "elite PVP" agenda obliging the PVE community to be the (helpless) cannon fodder of the OS PVP elite, but rather changing PVP rewards in order to give some actual prize also to the loosing part of a PVP battle. This is a game and not a agonistic sport: it must be funny (and not frustrating) also if you are not a " top" player. Edited October 5, 2017 by victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vazco Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 4.10.2017 at 11:01 AM, admin said: we are planning to eat the pill and bring pvp marks back and get some content behind the pvp wall. It works in WOW. Players who don't like pvp will still be able to buy pvp marks from pvp players. If this also means adding some mission/raid/mechanic that would allow for small PvP groups to find each other on OW, it's really great news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Jones Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Reward all PvP. Win or lose. At the moment losing is to costly for NO REWARDS at all. It takes time and effort to become good at combat and the set back for new blood is to harsh. 30 mins battle. Lose ship. Lose mods. Lose repairs. Lose crew. AND get nothing in return.. ..... Not a clever mechanic for PvP growth. Edited October 5, 2017 by Honourable Bluetooth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwood Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 (edited) https://imgur.com/a/smnyn No PvP at all I do not understand this moaning PvE players like Jimmerson what are they smoking, seriously. This is a pic,from ONLY 2 hours at EU server. Tried to save privacy, if you ask ourself, what is this white colour thing there...(was a bit drunk when editing) Edited October 6, 2017 by Cortez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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