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Sunleader

Add 3 Server Types instead of 2

3 Server Types  

42 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Server would you Play on.

    • PvE Server
    • PvP/PvE Server
    • PvP Server
    • Dont Support the Idea
  2. 2. Support the Idea ?



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No.

Just provide (meaningless) PBs and simple lobbies to the PvE server and then you and all the other 'PVE + once in a blue moon PvP if I really really really want to bother with it" can piss off to that server instead.

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4 hours ago, Rickard said:

 

PVPers hunt and fight outside the safe zone unless they think they can take on the reinforcements, PVEers trade, craft and fight AI inside or close to the safe zones. RVRers are basically everywhere.  

The flaw in that is that PVE players usually want to go EVERYWHERE, not be locked into small "safe zones".  They just want to sail, explore, see new things, and not get jacked and lose week's progress in their PVE game every time a bored PVP kiddie comes along.  PVE in Naval Action is suck, but I'm a 100% PVE player in another game where the PVE is pretty good.  I would not be playing that game at all if I was locked into "safe zones".  Getting out and exploring the world at leisure is the whole point for many PVE players. 

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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Im on board with a server that lets all players have options for play style. The devs are moving in that direction, they are doing a fine job. this game has a bright future for pvp and carebears alike.

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46 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

The flaw there is that PVE players usually want to go EVERYWHERE, not locked into small "safe zones".  They just want to sail, explore, see new things, and not get jacked and lose week's progress in their PVE game every time a bored PVP kiddie comes along.  PVE in Naval Action is suck, but I'm a 100% PVE player in another game where the PVE is pretty good.  I would not be playing that game at all if I was locked into "safe zones".  Getting out and exploring the world at leisure is the whole point for many PVE players. 

This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want to go everywhere you will have to leave the safe zone and meet other players no matter how scared you are.

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25 minutes ago, Rickard said:

This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want to go everywhere you will have to leave the safe zone and meet other players no matter how scared you are.

That might be your game, but it's a completely different game to other players.  Players are going to "vote with their feet" and leave if you try to force them into a box that doesn't interest them.  It isn't a matter of being "scared".  Nobody's "scared" of pixels.  It's a matter of not wanting to waste your time trying to make progress at a goal that interests you, then having someone else screw it up and waste many hours of your time.  PVE players usually love to meet other players - in a peaceful and cooperative manner.

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35 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

  PVE players usually love to meet other players - in a peaceful and cooperative manner.

 

then I don't know why you wanted to play this game (about shooting at other players) in the first place.

If you never take any risk you will never get anywhere( unless the devs provide you with your very own server ahhmm).

ow and just so you know I am not advocating for a PVP only server, I want a server for every type of player.

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56 minutes ago, Rickard said:

This is an MMO not a single player game, if you want to go everywhere you will have to leave the safe zone and meet other players no matter how scared you are.

No Offense Mate.

But if you look around. Most MMOs actually have VEEEEERY Tight Limits on PvP.

The Idea of Safezones is actually pretty old. And was more common in the Early 2D MMOs in 200x

Modern MMOs have long Realized that Open World PvP is a very Dangerous Element for a Game that can easily Crush the Player Economy as well as causing massive loss of Players and prevent New Players from Joining due to Frustration.

You See Mate.

The Fact unfortunately is that especially in Skillbased Games. An PvE Player will NEVER Beat an PvPer in PvP. Because Battlestyle between PvE and PvP is just too different. Skills, Equipment, Strategy and even the Objective of the Battle are an entirely different thing for PvP than they are in PvE.

Which means that to most PvE Oriented Players will by Default always end up Killed in PvP.

Just for example. In PvP Agility is much more Importand. Yet in PvE its almost useless. In PvE people will go for Armor and Gunpower because beating an NPC who can Sail against the Wind and turn his Ship on the Spot much faster than you can possibly get around him. Agility is Useless. He wont Run away either so you dont need Speed really. But NPCs ability to Snipe on crazy Distances and their Raw Stat Buffs mean that you do need Gunpower and Armor. All of which is effectively an Death Sentence in PvP cause people will dance Circles around you.

Open World where People can Attack others while they are Hunting NPCs thus is effectively not even PvP to most but just results in Ganking. Cause the Victor is decided beforehand. To an PvE Player there is no Chance to Fend off an Attacker or Escape. So to him this is just an Russian Roulette Random Death Chance that costs him Time and Frustration.

And another Fact is that 90% of the Economy is usually Run by PvE Players which Grind NPCs, Trade and Craft Stuff. So if PvE Players are prevented from actually Running. Or worse start Running Away. The Games Player Economy usually Collapses. This has in Fact already happened in Naval Action PvP Server. Shops are 90% Empty aside from NPC Offers. Players who are not Part of a Clan have no Chance to get most Ships because Simply Nobody Sells em at all. Which increases the Grind Tenfold and causes even more Frustration while also preventing any New Players from getting a Foothold in the Game.

Hardly any Open World MMO allows PvP in most of the World anymore they usually all use small PvP Zones keeping 90% of the World as an non PvP Zone. And the very few Open World MMOs that do have PvP in the Main World and only prevent it in Limited Safezones have Harsh Penalties if you Kill others. Like putting Big Bounties on your Head which you have to Pay if you Die. Or having you Hunted by NPCs constantly. Or even by decreasing your Stats and Level once your Caught. Some go so far that you cant even Enter Cities anymore.

 

If you take the Population of the 3-4 MMOs that currently neither Limit PvP to very small Areas nor Add Severe Penalties for Killing People. You would likely not even get 500 People in Primetime together. Needless to say that these Games usually close their Servers after very few Years simply because its not really profitable to keep the Server open for 50-100 People online....

 

 

So Your Argument there is Heavily Flawed.

In an MMO your Actually usually Pretty Safe to go everywhere except an very Limited Area thats designated clearly as a Warzone.

 

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Just now, Sunleader said:

No Offense Mate.

But if you look around. Most MMOs actually have VEEEEERY Tight Limits on PvP.

The Idea of Safezones is actually pretty old. And was more common in the Early 2D MMOs in 200x

Modern MMOs have long Realized that Open World PvP is a very Dangerous Element for a Game that can easily Crush the Player Economy as well as causing massive loss of Players and prevent New Players from Joining due to Frustration.

You See Mate.

The Fact unfortunately is that especially in Skillbased Games. An PvE Player will NEVER Beat an PvPer in PvP. Because Battlestyle between PvE and PvP is just too different. Skills, Equipment, Strategy and even the Objective of the Battle are an entirely different thing for PvP than they are in PvE.

Which means that to most PvE Oriented Players will by Default always end up Killed in PvP.

Just for example. In PvP Agility is much more Importand. Yet in PvE its almost useless. In PvE people will go for Armor and Gunpower because beating an NPC who can Sail against the Wind and turn his Ship on the Spot much faster than you can possibly get around him. Agility is Useless. He wont Run away either so you dont need Speed really. But NPCs ability to Snipe on crazy Distances and their Raw Stat Buffs mean that you do need Gunpower and Armor. All of which is effectively an Death Sentence in PvP cause people will dance Circles around you.

Open World where People can Attack others while they are Hunting NPCs thus is effectively not even PvP to most but just results in Ganking. Cause the Victor is decided beforehand. To an PvE Player there is no Chance to Fend off an Attacker or Escape. So to him this is just an Russian Roulette Random Death Chance that costs him Time and Frustration.

And another Fact is that 90% of the Economy is usually Run by PvE Players which Grind NPCs, Trade and Craft Stuff. So if PvE Players are prevented from actually Running. Or worse start Running Away. The Games Player Economy usually Collapses. This has in Fact already happened in Naval Action PvP Server. Shops are 90% Empty aside from NPC Offers. Players who are not Part of a Clan have no Chance to get most Ships because Simply Nobody Sells em at all. Which increases the Grind Tenfold and causes even more Frustration while also preventing any New Players from getting a Foothold in the Game.

Hardly any Open World MMO allows PvP in most of the World anymore they usually all use small PvP Zones keeping 90% of the World as an non PvP Zone. And the very few Open World MMOs that do have PvP in the Main World and only prevent it in Limited Safezones have Harsh Penalties if you Kill others. Like putting Big Bounties on your Head which you have to Pay if you Die. Or having you Hunted by NPCs constantly. Or even by decreasing your Stats and Level once your Caught. Some go so far that you cant even Enter Cities anymore.

 

If you take the Population of the 3-4 MMOs that currently neither Limit PvP to very small Areas nor Add Severe Penalties for Killing People. You would likely not even get 500 People in Primetime together. Needless to say that these Games usually close their Servers after very few Years simply because its not really profitable to keep the Server open for 50-100 People online....

 

 

So Your Argument there is Heavily Flawed.

In an MMO your Actually usually Pretty Safe to go everywhere except an very Limited Area thats designated clearly as a Warzone.

 

I don't think my argument is flawed.

I already said that the devs have not provided the game with a clear direction and thus the direction was dictated by the nagging of the loudest players, as I see now the devs see this and try to improve this issue by hopefully making all server more suited for all player types. that is probably also why safe zone are now in the game, they are the limits on PVP.

The point of my argument: Naval Action in its current form is not a typical MMO but is hopefully going towards that direction but NA still belongs to the group of games that call themselves MMOs.

therefor my argument is still valid.

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3 minutes ago, Rickard said:

then I don't know why you wanted to play this game (about shooting at other players) in the first place.

If you never take any risk you will never get anywhere( unless the devs provide you with your very own server ahhmm).

ow and just so you know I am not advocating for a PVP only server, I want a server for every type of player.

You sure consider this Game rubbish lol.

If you seriously say this Game is about shooting at other Players like this is its main selling Point I feel really Sorry for you Mate.

 

And Sorry but Seriously. The stuff your currently Writing Ultimately Sounds like an PvP Only Server. Where anyone will be Forced to PvP on a Regular Base and where the attempt to Avoid PvP is Punished by lower Rewards or entirely Prevented by Game Mechanics.

 

Just to be on the safe side here.

A Server for everyone does mean that an PvE Player can Play the entire Game and Raise Ranks, Eqipment and Money at the same Speed as all other Players without ever even once being Forced into an PvP Fight against his Will.

Otherwise that Server is NOT an Server for Everyone as its clearly not an Server where an PvE Oriented Player would ever go.

It would be an PvP Server.

 

 

See Mate.

Lately there has been a Trend on Paid MMOs.

To Market themselves as Free to Play by allowing Players to Create an Character which however is Limited to lvl 20 out of 50 and which cannot use High End Gear.

And the Fact is that this is not an Free to Play Game. Its just a Pay to Play Game that offers an Free Trial Account without a Time Limit.

 

You can Relabel anything. But the Facts dont change. And a Server where Players that do not want to do PvP are in any way disadvantaged compared to PvP Players Is not an Server for Everyone :)

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5 minutes ago, Rickard said:

I don't think my argument is flawed.

I already said that the devs have not provided the game with a clear direction and thus the direction was dictated by the nagging of the loudest players, as I see now the devs see this and try to improve this issue by hopefully making all server more suited for all player types. that is probably also why safe zone are now in the game, they are the limits on PVP.

The point of my argument: Naval Action in its current form is not a typical MMO but is hopefully going towards that direction but NA still belongs to the group of games that call themselves MMOs.

therefor my argument is still valid.

Your Argument was.

Its an MMO so you cant reach everything without taking the PvP Risk.

Thats a Fallacy because this is not the Common Standard for MMOs. And its not the case in NA either right now as the Safezones are currently not Disadvantaged.

The Devs in Fact made very Clear several times as well that this Option is not on the Table either because they have Noticed that Players then just Leave the Game.

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1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

You sure consider this Game rubbish lol.

If you seriously say this Game is about shooting at other Players like this is its main selling Point I feel really Sorry for you Mate.

 

And Sorry but Seriously. The stuff your currently Writing Ultimately Sounds like an PvP Only Server. Where anyone will be Forced to PvP on a Regular Base and where the attempt to Avoid PvP is Punished by lower Rewards or entirely Prevented by Game Mechanics.

 

Just to be on the safe side here.

A Server for everyone does mean that an PvE Player can Play the entire Game and Raise Ranks, Eqipment and Money at the same Speed as all other Players without ever even once being Forced into an PvP Fight against his Will.

Otherwise that Server is NOT an Server for Everyone as its clearly not an Server where an PvE Oriented Player would ever go.

It would be an PvP Server.

 

 

See Mate.

Lately there has been a Trend on Paid MMOs.

To Market themselves as Free to Play by allowing Players to Create an Character which however is Limited to lvl 20 out of 50 and which cannot use High End Gear.

And the Fact is that this is not an Free to Play Game. Its just a Pay to Play Game that offers an Free Trial Account without a Time Limit.

 

You can Relabel anything. But the Facts dont change. And a Server where Players that do not want to do PvP are in any way disadvantaged compared to PvP Players Is not an Server for Everyone :)

19

you do know that Naval Action did not have an OW when it was released and an OW also was not promised to the players. Naval action back in those days was nothing more than World of warships 1700 style and yes indeed "shooting at other Players like this is its main selling Point". I am shocked that you did not know this BTW.

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23 minutes ago, Rickard said:

then I don't know why you wanted to play this game (about shooting at other players) in the first place.

If you never take any risk you will never get anywhere( unless the devs provide you with your very own server ahhmm).

ow and just so you know I am not advocating for a PVP only server, I want a server for every type of player.

As I said, I'm a PVE player in ANOTHER game.  The PVE content/mechanics in Naval Action sucks IMO.  I'm trying to relate to you why PVE players will usually not be satisfied at being restricted to token "safe zones".  Some people just want to sail pretty ships, go places, explore, imagine, or just do the game at their own pace instead of getting randomly curb-stomped.  Different strokes for different sailors...

Edited by Barbancourt (rownd)

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13 minutes ago, Rickard said:

you do know that Naval Action did not have an OW when it was released and an OW also was not promised to the players. Naval action back in those days was nothing more than World of warships 1700 style and yes indeed "shooting at other Players like this is its main selling Point". I am shocked that you did not know this BTW.

Well Mate.

See thats the Thing.

When we Bought this Game it was Open World. :)

For us this Game has never been about Shooting at others.

 

Question to you Mate.

Do your Friends consider you as being there to Eat, Cry and Poop your Pampers just because thats what you did when you were Born ? :)

Or dont you think that they might actually be your Friends due to some of your more Recent Values ;)

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1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

Well Mate.

See thats the Thing.

When we Bought this Game it was Open World. :)

For us this Game has never been about Shooting at others.

 

 

2

that's too bad... anyway I don't think we will agree soon so I thank you for the conversation which was actually quite good and civilised( unlike other players I have spoken to in the past).

I cant do more than wish you fair seas o7.

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6 hours ago, Rickard said:

I disagree, the players have been whining because the devs have not drawn lines about what this game is gonna be in the future so they try to sway the opinion in their direction. if Naval Action would have had 1 server for everyone where all players can do what they want respectively this whole discussion would have never existed.

PVPers hunt and fight outside the safe zone unless they think they can take on the reinforcements, PVEers trade, craft and fight AI inside or close to the safe zones. RVRers are basically everywhere.  

 

Furthermore is the idea of a separate PVP and PVE server, not even that well thought through since on both server players are required to build ships and thus perform PVE tasks on a PVP server but yeah I guess some people just nagged the devs ears off so now we have a separate PVE server. 

 

^^ 

 

this is makes me happy, the unrealized fact here is the map is big enough to sustain us all in our preferred avanue of game weather that's pve pvp or rvr and as it's alpha we here to test and suggest options to improve the game, on release we can for sure look at multiple servers cause if done correctly we will need them 

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Well, also the results of this poll seem to confirm that - after the disaster of the "mega summer hardcore patch" -.what I call the "OS PVP hardcore crew" has reduced to a minority, where the majority of the players (also on PVP servers) is more interested in PVE, trade & craft and - as far as PVP is concerned - RvR.

Also the outcome of this poll is confirming to the devs that the correct direction of the game - for its most populated servers - is a "mild mixed PVE/PVP" evironment (a la EVE online).

That is to say that - if the trend of development will be confirmed (and personally I hope it will) - NA is NOT going to be a hardcore PVP game (a la Mortal online).

For this kind of gameplay there will be NA legends (where BTW players are obliged to combat in balanced groups, so we will actually see how many of our beloved gankers - that scream and shout against safe zones - are really skilled PVP warriors and not just Tbrigs and LGV rapers).

Edited by victor

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God PVE kiddies are so annoying. The poll clearly shows that the majority would play the hardcore PVP server than either the PVE or Mixed server combined.

If you say PVP players on PVP servers are more interested in PVE than PVP you're severely mistaken. If you think the PVP server should revolve around PVE then you're playing the wrong server. Hardly anyone on PVP agrees with that, we all hate that we have to grind AI to get real fights, but its a necessary. But to say that's what the majority wants to do? Please stop. There's a reason why the PVP servers pull 10x the numbers

 

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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3 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

God PVE kiddies are so annoying. The poll clearly shows that the majority would play the hardcore PVP server than either the PVE or Mixed server combined.

13 ppl... :P

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11 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Hey! Multiply that by 2 and you get the current PVE server population!

So you do say that there are twice as many PvE-er as PvP-ers ? That should have consequences on NA development...:P

Edited by LeBoiteux

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11 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

So you do say that there are twice as many PvE-er as PvP-ers ? That would have consequences on NA development...:P

I say that like PVErs make up >10% of the game, yet make outrageous claims like "the majority of the players (also on PVP servers) is more interested in PVE"

If you enjoy PVE that's cool. If you prefer PVE only then we have a server for that. If you're on PVP and complain about PVP and say you're speaking for the majority..

 

59d4a58b291d2_pvekiddies.jpg.3c1c2730e85a81ab732f698a5d2e9f6f.jpg

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson

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The Bigger Problem with the Poll is Actually my Fault.

The Upper Poll is only in case you Support the Idea. But only 13 People Support the Idea of Splitting things into 3 Servers.

Yet alone the PvP Server got 14 Votes because the People who dont Support the Idea instead of just being Fair and Voting they do not Support. Are trying to mess up the Results by Voting PvP Server.

Only

2 out of 3 of the Votes on PvE Server are Valid

6 out of 8 of the Votes on the PvP/PvE Server are Valid.

5 out of 14 of the Votes on the PvP Server are Valid.

The Remaining Votes are from People who do not Support the Idea and either out of spite or due to misunderstanding have Voted for a Server when they should have Voted that they do not Support the Idea.

 

So out of the People who actually Support the Idea.

Majority would indeed be for a Mixed Server. 

But as the People who Support the Idea are not the Majority as apparently most People do not want to Split the Servers.  The whole thing is not really Importand.

 

 

Currently the Problem here is pretty Simple really.

We got 3 Factions.

PvE

Mixed

PvP

 

The PvE Faction does not want any Involuntary PvP. So except Port Battles and Events they want to have an PvE World. Unfortunately the PvE Server is not offering this. Thus many of them being Forced to Play on the PvP Server.

 

The Mixed Players want to have PvP but not always. They are fine with most of the World being PvP. But they dont want to be forced into PvP. If they got a leisure evening and came back from work they just want to Relax and earn some Money without constantly looking over their Shoulder. And since they got limited time anyways they dont want to get nerved rewards for being in the Safe Zone either. Much less be limited to a certain lvl inside the Safezone.

 

And then there is the PvPers which after their whining has pretty much killed the PvP Servers Population and Economy are now gasping for Straws because they find no more Targets to Kill. Unfortunately alot of the PvPers are not exactly people who want Fair Fights or Port Battles. They want to kill people in an ambush where they know they will win by default. And for some reason they think. That if they remove the options to avoid PvP these People will become their prey again allowing them to have fun ganking them.

Thats of course not going to happen. Cause even if the PvPers have failed to learn the Lesson. The Devs did learn it. They learned that Players who dont have Fun dont stay in the Game. So if you Force People into being Prey for the PvP Crowd they will not start Playing PvP they will stop Playing the Game.

 

My Solution to that was to just Split it up. That way Survival of the Game would be Secured because the Server People like Best would ultimately become the one Server they Keep up.

 

But thats obviously not going to happen either.

So all thats left is to Fight over the Server we got and make that one the Server we want.

Gladly chances that its going to be an Pure PvP Server ever again are non existent. The Devs are not Interested in Killing their Game. So they will not again cater to the part of the Community which scares away all other Players and which makes gaining New Players next to Impossible.

Question is just how much we can get them towards either Direction. And hope that the Devs make the right Choices so the Game does not end up Dead.

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