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A place for combat feedback

I doubt we will have much feedback here as combat is very very well tested, but maybe there would be proposals on improvements. 
Shallows work in instances and some places are only passable in light ships on the map.


Repairs are switched off - so lets see how it works without repairs. 

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just played the first map with 3 circles. Its annoying the circles are so far away from each other that you could chain your enemy and then kite them all the way while one ship just sails to the circles to recap them.

This is not WoW or WoT or WT sail dmg reduces your speed for ever (atm no sail repairs) in the games mentioned before you know your speed and you keep it. Maybe your engine gets taken out but you get repaired to mostly full speed again so a 3 circle design is wrong. Make one circle and everyone has to fight for control. It even solves the run away guys problem. Let them run away you still hold the one circle.

 

Now i played capture the base

Same problem ships are just to slow.

 

Might be fun when doing RVR this circle thing but i am playing NAL for fights and not to run away and avoid fights to do circle stuff. Atm the game is just about run for the circle.

By the way you even dont get points for captureing circles

Edited by z4ys
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Preliminary thoughts ~

 - turning seems a bit off.  not sure if it's lag but it felt very robotic and not fluid as is typical in NA vanilla.  AI turned robotic also.  
 - AI is terrible.  they just following players around and it's very easy to evade and keep them out of the circles.  
 - Circles seem to be unnecessary.  I'd prefer just a straight up brawl mode or a singular objective mode.  
 - I'm not sure starting out in cutters is the best thing honestly.  Perhaps it's just because I'm an "old dog" at this point, but the cutter was not very exciting.  

UI thoughts ~

- global chat doesn't seem to work
- some elements of the UI aren't as crisp as others.  
- little klunky overall.  

 

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40 minutes ago, z4ys said:

just played the first map with 3 circles. Its annoying the circles are so far away from each other that you could chain your enemy and then kite them all the way while one ship just sails to the circles to recap them.

This is not WoW or WoT or WT sail dmg reduces your speed for ever (atm no sail repairs) in the games mentioned before you know your speed and you keep it. Maybe your engine gets taken out but you get repaired to mostly full speed again so a 3 circle design is wrong. Make one circle and everyone has to fight for control. It even solves the run away guys problem. Let them run away you still hold the one circle.

 

Now i played capture the base

Same problem ships are just to slow.

 

Might be fun when doing RVR this circle thing but i am playing NAL for fights and not to run away and avoid fights to do circle stuff. Atm the game is just about run for the circle.

By the way you even dont get points for captureing circles

i was the one chaining you, welcome to naval action man.

if u have carro and i have longs i dont see why i should not run and hit ur sails while u are chasing ... its basic combat rules...

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17 minutes ago, elite92 said:

i was the one chaining you, welcome to naval action man.

if u have carro and i have longs i dont see why i should not run and hit ur sails while u are chasing ... its basic combat rules...

Its not about you. Its about that it is a stupid game design. I wouldnt mind chaining when sail hp gets back up over time. But how it is like now its not fun.

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41 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Its not about you. Its about that it is a stupid game design. I wouldnt mind chaining when sail hp gets back up over time. But how it is like now its not fun.

mate chill down, i ve done 5 battles and no1 use chain dont worry, not every1 are ELITE.

repair in OW went mad and we dont want infinite repairs also here so pls be patient and dont rage after 2 battles , u are a tester(also victim like admin says)

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3 minutes ago, elite92 said:

mate chill down, i ve done 5 battles and no1 use chain dont worry, not every1 are ELITE.

repair in OW went mad and we dont want infinite repairs also here so pls be patient and dont rage after 2 battles , u are a tester(also victim like admin says)

wait till everyone understands the gamedesign and what is meta.

Edited by z4ys
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Just now, z4ys said:

wait till everyone understands teh gamedesign and what is meta.

i propose 2 repairs in total, to be divided between hull, sails and crew. so u can repairs twice the hull but nothing else or 1 hull and 1 sails ecc...

what do u propose?

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3 minutes ago, elite92 said:

i propose 2 repairs in total, to be divided between hull, sails and crew. so u can repairs twice the hull but nothing else or 1 hull and 1 sails ecc...

what do u propose?

constant repair over time. Therefore increase chain dmg

And i am not mad. I am german everything I speak or write is like a bark.

Edited by z4ys
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1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

1. Repairs should be like in NA, but cooldown should be 15 mins.

NO NO and NO.

im playing Legends to not lose time, so pls dont introduce mechanics with cooldown that incentivate running, dont ruin also this game

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I agree that circles are not fitting the gameplay.

I think it is all about fighting as fleet. Best in a line and search for weak spots in the enemy posision.

The sail away for circle capturing is really strange and not supporting a good fight.

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1 hour ago, elite92 said:

NO NO and NO.

im playing Legends to not lose time, so pls dont introduce mechanics with cooldown that incentivate running, dont ruin also this game

Well, in many arena games characters can heal or recover if they are not targeted for x time. I don't want in Legends 2-3 broadsides to decide of my fate. Then sail with 20% structure and avoid any broadside. Imagine first 2-3 minutes you get 3-4 broadsides and it's over for you. You're dead, you have to go for another round. You had a chance just to shoot 1 broadside and that's it. Is that fun?

I find it way more strategic, involving a lot of thinking and planning if you have repairs. You think that a ship with 20% structure will not start to run away? The only way to prevent running is circle of death. Repairs don't incetivate to run, it's weakness and open space that does it. 

Also, if you fail to finish/kill someone, you do something wrong. It takes skill to make sure someone dies rather than sail away with 20% HP. 

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I would go with the old repairs.  One Hull and one Repair that is it.  Crew I think shouldn't realy have a repair, just keep it with what you have. This will speed up the matches but makes it you can't be totally disable like just now in my cutter.  AI took out my bow sprite and I was dead in the water.   It's hard to judge the combat cause the game is so laggy right now and a lot of the sail controls seem unresponsive.  

I'm going to take a break and play some more over the weekend.  Just getting dropped and the lag was getting frustrating.

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It appears little (probably nothing bar repairs) about the combat model since the hull integrity patch months ago. 

For light ships:

-Hulls are pitifully weak even with cutter on cutter combat; angle of impact does not really matter at all

-Raking hulls/crew is basically out of the question with the exception of grape shot 

-The damage of grape shot is also ridiculous but is the only contrast to how quickly you can sink some thing but equally as broken

The current characteristics of light ship combat solely revolving around hull bashing may not be a bad thing but I suspect the same chronic problems still exist for 5th rates and higher and will be incredibly problematic to proper game balance. 

 

Edit: Crew repairs would be a travesty 

Edited by Mr. Doran
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15 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

Imagine first 2-3 minutes you get 3-4 broadsides and it's over for you. You're dead, you have to go for another round. You had a chance just to shoot 1 broadside and that's it. Is that fun?

Well then you fcked up and just go next match, no big problem here imo.

Old system with 1 repair each would be okay, but please not infinite repairs with a timer again...

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If repairs get introduces max them at 1, but definelty not more, NA legends should be a fast and fun experience.

I would like the idea of limited chain and grape shots.

i had the idea about a "recovery system". the crew repairs sails and gives first aid for wounded crew members over time. the lower the percent go, the higher the repair gets. at 60% you get sails faster back and with more sail hp the recovery gets slower and is capped at 85%. same with crew. currently if you lose a mast, you are out of game. with this system the enemy needs to finish you fast before you can get back into the fight. Example: you lose your masts and stay at 50% sails, then you get back to 70 in 7 mins and and from 70 to 85 in 15 mins.

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40 minutes ago, Jon Snow lets go // NeeRo said:

Well then you fcked up and just go next match, no big problem here imo.

Old system with 1 repair each would be okay, but please not infinite repairs with a timer again...

There are no infinite repairs. Admin can make repairs more heavy in legends. The more you take, the more fat slow ass you are. 15 mins will be a very long time for cooldown and should work fine.

2-3 broadsides you call "you hello kittyed up". That's what's going to happen to each first player in line. Everyone will try to stay in middle or rear. You remember the Fellvred small battles? No one wanted to go at the front. It meant instant death. There will be no orders in Legends for bravery or being a flagship.

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Alright, so far its looking pretty good. I played 3 battles so far in the cutter, so here is what I think so far...

 

Cons

1: general ship speed feels a bit too low for the size of the maps.

--- Possible solution; Increase all ship speeds by 10% to 15% across the board. This should decrease the amount of time spent in matches a bit and keep the queue filled with players, meaning faster matches over all.

2: There is some kind of nasty ship turning bug, where ships turn very jaggedly and not smoothly at all. I'll have the rudder hard over and the turn will not be consistent, with the ship occasionally going straight instead of continuing into the turn.

3: Team flags and teams in general, I feel need to be more consistent. For example, currently, in one match, your team could be blue, but in the next match, your team could be red. This can get rather confusing if you're not paying very close attention.

--- Possible solution; make the player's team always "blue" and the enemy's team always "red" to better keep teams consistency across matches. This would prevent accidental friendly damage as well.

4: The match maker needs major work. Cutters really shouldn't be facing off against Snows... thats a little over kill and might cause players to feel way too over whelmed. Cutters against brigs feels fine however.

 

Pros

1: Combat seems very nice, smooth, and just generally good. Nothing really surprising there.

2: UI looks lovely. Could use some polishing here and there, and more info in certain places (like readily available xp and silver costs for upgrades without having to click on them) but over seems to do its job well, and looks rather nice.

3: Ship stats right in the front and center, and very easy to read! I love that! Thank you!

 

Over all, I'm slightly impressed. Good job devs! o7

 

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The towers are pretty OP when you are just in cutters, I'm not sure how they will be once I'm in a bigger ship, if I ever get there with the buggy xp. 

The other issue is the same as others have been experiencing with strange cutter turning, I have even experienced dropping from about 8kn to 0 where I am left in a position where I might as well have no sails at all. It wasn't even a smooth drop in speed it was like I just hit a concrete block and stopped instantly.

The damage you take from running aground and into rock formations is a really nice touch though, I've not experienced that before.

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I think they just need to remove all captureable circles including forts, excluding one big circle in the middle where you have to fight over.

If you have successfully captured that circle, it'll give 'points' over time for the team, when it reaches 1000 your team instantly wins. That way people can't just run away from the fight. Other circles/forts need to be removed, the ships are just too slow for that kind of system. And no, don't speed the ships up instead, it'll ruin things.

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basic cutter feels very bad. I'm getting stuck half into the wind regulary. Cutter on naval action is easier

 

1 repair should be possible. But only hull, sails or crew.

limit of battles should be 30 min. Arenagame shouldnt be too long

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1 hour ago, rediii said:

basic cutter feels very bad. I'm getting stuck half into the wind regulary. Cutter on naval action is easier

On some maps the wind is not coming from the direction the compass is telling you. Even the sails and flags are showing the wrong wind direction. Maybe you sailed into the wind without knowing it? I know for sure that on a 2 fort map the wind is coming from 270° and is this way 90° offset to the compass wind direction.

Edited by z4ys

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