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Map and battle type feedback

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This is a topic for Game types and map feedback

There are several types of battle types in the game. All have one weather preset present (we will add ow weather presets in the future).

  • Map with the fort
  • Map with towers
  • Map with 1 capture circle 
  • Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style)
  • Map with 2 home zones (wot style)

Please provide feedback on game types and map styles and propose ideas on improvement or new game types.

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1 hour ago, z4ys said:

just played the first map with 3 circles. Its annoying the circles are so far away from each other that you could chain your enemy and then kite them all the way while one ship just sails to the circles to recap them.

This is not WoW or WoT or WT sail dmg reduces your speed for ever (atm no sail repairs) in the games mentioned before you know your speed and you keep it. Maybe your engine gets taken out but you get repaired to mostly full speed again so a 3 circle design is wrong. Make one circle and everyone has to fight for control. It even solves the run away guys problem. Let them run away you still hold the one circle.

 

Now i played capture the base

Same problem ships are just to slow.

 

Might be fun when doing RVR this circle thing but i am playing NAL for fights and not to run away and avoid fights to do circle stuff. Atm the game is just about run for the circle.

By the way you even dont get points for captureing circles

TLDR:

  • Map with the fort = do we have a mortar brig? Why should anyone go to a captured fort tower?
  • Map with towers = do we have a mortar brig? Why should anyone go to a captured fort tower?
  • Map with 1 capture circle = I had a blast awesome brawl
  • Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style) = Was boring everyone just rushed for the circles Ai was the only ones who fired a shot
  • Map with 2 home zones (wot style) = Was boring to far away you cant react. Best would be to stay in home circle

 

Edited by z4ys

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early feedback after 5 matches

3 circles:

  • circles are too far away from each other
  • this mode needs more players otherwise they are too spread out
  • capping 3 circles gives same points as capping 2 circles (4 points per tick)

 

1 circle:

  • only 2 points if you have captured it, thats not enough and drags games out too much if players decide to run instead to fight
  • otherwise its a good gamemode for 5vs5, its my favourite one so far
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for the maps with the capturable fort circle, i think either that circle should have a more lenient re-capturing/contesting mechanic or the fort should be harder to initially capture (maybe it should be like in the old port battles where you had to board and capture the mortello towers).

Edited by CatSwift

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Map with 1 capture circle 

- Also my favourite, instant action, clear mission, fast gameplay (fits arena style nicely).

Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style)

- Too big, makes a lot of sailing without fighting (kiting issue).
- Roundtimer way too long, max roundtime should be max 30 minutes in this arena style game.

Map with 2 home zones (north and south) and one fortress (wot style)

- Size is good, but one team all downwind one team all upwind is totally unfair, total showstopper.
- Shallows around the fortress is really buggy, the height visible does not correspond if you can run aground or not.
- Shallows #2 The "Shallows" warning is like playing minefield, there is no real feedback where is go and where not.
- Map does not give enough precise clues where you can go and where not (sometimes completely wrong - am in Cutter).

Map with 2 home zones and two towers north & south (wot style)

- Too big or capping too fast.
- Unbalanced layout, cant have one team spawn more upwind then the other.
- Towers placed too far out, rather have them on the middle Island, where they matther.

Brainstorming on gamemodes:

- CTF capture a flag in enemy base and bring it back, might be to slow gameplay for that on second thought.
- Escort mission, 2 part round, one time defender, one time attacker. Get a AI trader from A to B. Win on timer / trader kills.
- Trafalgar battle with mixed rates, i guess that is planned, gonna be hard to make MM for that tho.
- Other historical battles, maybe even as solo mission available, if your rate fits somewhere.
- Group mission, one side players, on side AI with a bigger rate & escorts - kill XY mission type.
- Attack mission, using mortar & fireships against AI port/fleet in port.
- Regatta with Privateers, would love that one. ^^
- Small storm map brawl - must be.

Edited by sveno
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Map with the fort

  • Capping the fort seems like the smart thing to do, fun watching it open up on other ships. Sand shoal in front of it seems to pose no threat to AI however.

Map with the towers

  • Fun watching them open up on ships!

1 cap

  • Great fun; like Epicenter in WoWs, should encourage everyone to be in the cap circle and duke it out. A tug-of-war style mechanic for capping would make more sense than a single ship blocking multiple ships from capping.

3 caps

  • Too spread out for 5v5; larger battles might make sense

2 home zones (wot style)

  • Encourages base camping, and is a controversial game mode in WoWs; I dislike the mode myself, as it encourages a passive playstyle.

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  • Map with the fort
    • Is a bit overkill for cutters and beginners
    • Later it would be fine, but after fort is capped I don't see the possibility to cap it back
    • Maybe make this map available at 2nd to 1st rate
  • Map with towers
    • -Same but less hard for bigger ships. Maybe towermap should be available at 5th-3rd rate
  • Map with 1 capture circle 
    • Fun thing, good to get into the game. Should be the first mapmode after you begin playing the game
  • Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style)
    • Too big, especially at the beginning. Maybe smaller circles and put them closer together
  • Map with 2 home zones (wot style)
    • I don't like it, wouldnt put it into the game

 

Other gamemode ideas:

  • Custommatch with lobby between players
  • PvE modes like sveno described
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1 cycle only is awesome :)

The rest is quite ok but only 1 cycle forces you not to drift off too far otherwise the battle is lost.
I really like that.

 

Intresting that if one enemy steps into a cycle the capturing is not paused but reset to 0.

Edited by isard

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Loving the shallows but all the maps seem a bit large, taking 3-4 minutes of sailing just to get in range. Feels like the circles take too long to (re)capture - perhaps points should be given when one team has more ships in the circle rather than capturing it?

Map with the fort + Map with towers - OK but if one team takes the towers/fort it just disincentives combat around the area and the battle will just drag on.  Perhaps towers could be used around the areas that have to be taken/defended - larger ships only?

Map with 1 capture circle - best map of the bunch as it pushes everyone together

Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style) - Doesn't really work with small numbers of players and small ships but would certainly be nice to try with 25v25 battles, circles + spawns need to be much closer.

Map with 2 home zones (wot style) - With short battles and the lack of any very long range units I don't think the home zones will work. Most ppl will either not care about the zones at all or just hang back depending on the rewards for kills/keeping the zones.

  • King of the..circle? - Circle spawns in different areas of the map and despawns every 250 points, with a new circle spawning somewhere else. Small map to ensure fighting is kept fairly local but allows for some tactics.
  • Protect the Admiral - One ship on each team is randomly designated as the admiral (weighted towards the larger ships). One team wins when the other admiral is sunk. CIRCLE OF DEATH!! returns to ensure admirals can't run away :)
  • Battle Royale - A 50 player FFA (pirate battle thingy) with the CIRCLE OF DEATH!! keeping players local.
  • Port Assault -  Large force attacks a smaller force in a port. Defenders have forts/towers to help out. Attackers need to take a capture circle near the port, defenders need to kill/outlast.

 

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Hmmmm have to add: Most All maps seem way too large for an arena style game.

I have checked the time and even with fast ships a map can well take for over 45min to finish with only a little of bad luck.
My expectation would be that after 15minutes maximum a battle is over, taking sailing ships into account, lets double that time.
But 30 minutes should be the maximum, otherwise we have another time burner like the original Naval Action and thus again a game with very small player base.

That would require smaller maps and moving everything a little closer.
Not sailing 5 minutes to the enemy until firing range, but 2 minutes instead.
Capturing circles closer so you can reach them within few minutes.
From first expression I think you could cut the map sizes in half without further problems, most likely even more.
As a rule of thumb I would say that you should be able to sail from one edge to the other within 10 minutes, that would ease a lot of things time related.
 

Edited by isard

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  • Map with the fort - interesting map and i didn't see any problems with it.
  • Map with towers - didn't play this map so can't comment on it.
  • Map with 1 capture circle - The best map for lower number of people and ships
  • Map with 3 capture circles (port battle style) - This map should only show up if each side has 12-15+ people. So that we can have multiple groups at each one to fight.
  • Map with 2 home zones (wot style) - interesting map and i didn't see any problems with it.

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The map with 1 circle

Once 1 side takes circle it generates point incredibly fast. So fast that you cant get into the circle and recap in time. 

(except if pointgeneration stops if someone else sails into circle but I don't think so)

Edit: forget the other part of the post

 

points should generate rather slow so it can be recaptured or maybe point income should stop when enemy ship is inside circle

Edited by rediii

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Some maps that are currently not fun when played for circles. At the moment we have 2 behaviors. The most common behavior is on this maps to charge each other and ignor the circles. This gameplay is fun and most vets player are doing so because the are in need of fights.

The 2nd behavior mostly performed by unkown players is to go for the circles avoiding the fight and running between the circles. Its especially a pain when they are sailing for and aft rigged vessels while you have to hunt them down in a square rigged ones.

The 2nd behavoir leads to unsatisfying gameplay experience. Games get disproportionatley long and disappointing.

 

In my opionion in Naval Action Legends 3 circle systems dont work.  Especially the map at my 2nd picture has an aweful design. The shallows are annoying and the islands between the capturepoints deny a fluid gameplay. When played like the 2nd behavoir the map leads to long sails without firing a shot.

 

Maps which are awesome are the 1 circle maps. Instant action till sinking with smoking guns.

 

Maps that could work as well must have following design in my opinion:

They must focus around ONE certain area

The could be capture the area (for both)

Or could be hold/defend for one side and attack for the other side.

 

1st. Map:

A51B36260A1A4D7B7FCCD0F8D5C125144DCD124D

 

2nd map:

983762A6336A8ABE2BCE7528569167AA92FEF51C

 

Sidenote: On the 2nd map Ai always get stuck in shallows

Edited by z4ys
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Map with 3 circles, no forts

One thing I noticed: the AI ships don't give a toss. Had a 5v5 games, just cutters with me the only player. The AIs went for each other, and I was left alone to cruise through the three circles. Even when they were capped, the AIs did not try to move towards them.

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19 minutes ago, Jonnydread said:

I did not realize it at first but it was probably a bug:

On the map with only 1 circle, my team got around 50 victory points per second after i capped the circle.

In a way its intended. Last week the point generation was so slow that the circle wasnt important. Now the circle matters. Maybe a little bit to much but it is possible to reset the capture through dmg so it is not really necessary to be IN the circle to prevent the cap.

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6 minutes ago, z4ys said:

In a way its intended.

1

The Victory points jumped from 0-0 to 1000-0 in 30 seconds. That is not even enough time to turn, let alone to reach the circle.

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10 minutes ago, Jonnydread said:

The Victory points jumped from 0-0 to 1000-0 in 30 seconds. That is not even enough time to turn, let alone to reach the circle.

thats true but as I said its possible to prevent it. In WT is a map with the same mechanic. If the one point gets captured tickets run out very fast. Because of that I see no real issue. Prevent the capture at all costs. I mean you see the guy sailing to the circle for 5 mins ;-) should be enough time to react^^ But yeah we are just playing the maps wrong at the moment. Everyone is going for the brawl and ignoring the objectives. Thats why currently maps like the 3 circle maps work out even with 5vs5 player (they use to be 25vs25 maps). But when going for the objectives these maps get really painfull and boring with low player numbers.

Edited by z4ys

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1 circle gamemode

how it should be:

It should promote fighting around this area with constant swaps of the team who owns the circle (in a balanced match). Therefore this circle should be captured instantly and as long as have the majority of ships in there. As soon as you leave or if enemies have the same amount of ships in the circle it should become neutral again.

Also reduce the amount of points you get, 66 per tick is ridiculous.

 

how it is:

takes like 4 minutes to capture and once you get it you won. That means in most of the matches noone gives a shit about the circle and only go there if one guy tries to capture it. As soon as 1 player from each side is there it wont ever get captured and is completely unrelevant.

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@z4ys I think the map with the narrow channel and three circles could work in a larger battle. Think of a WT battle with 15 v 15 or even a 25 v 25 battle then you could have team strategy and capturing the other circles would make a difference. Of course getting some xp for capping would help as well.

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6 minutes ago, DeRuyter said:

@z4ys I think the map with the narrow channel and three circles could work in a larger battle. Think of a WT battle with 15 v 15 or even a 25 v 25 battle then you could have team strategy and capturing the other circles would make a difference. Of course getting some xp for capping would help as well.

yeah Admin told me  that it is a 25v25 map. But I still dont know if it is enjoyable. That are still 3 unique battles on the same map at the same time (We have to keep in mind that it is not wow where we can shoot 24km or sail to a location we want in no time). Dont know if any random will enjoy that. For clan grp based gameplay. yeah why not.

Edited by z4ys

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On 2017. 09. 30. at 11:43 AM, z4ys said:

2nd map:

983762A6336A8ABE2BCE7528569167AA92FEF51C

 

Sidenote: On the 2nd map Ai always get stuck in shallows

To add to this: the center circle's channel is way too narrow. It is manageable with the current 6-6 matches (where everyone goes in there anyway) and with the unrated ships, it could be a little problematic with some frigates, but it would be an absolute nightmare with lineships. The channel is too narrow for such a central location. It would be okay for one of the side circles.

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In general I'd like to test the maps and gamemodes when more actual players are involved. The AI doesn't care about the objectives and even if it did teams would still be too small for the maps' size.

Towers and forts are a nice addition but as Fellvred mentioned they should be at places that are valuable in terms of capture zones / win conditions or players will simply avoid them once they are captured. In consequence of such a change they probably need to be easier to recapture / destroy.

At the current state the whole capture-circle-system doesn't really appeal to me. I don't mind it either but I'd likely just hope for some good fights to happen. Something I'm able to get easier and faster within the scope of a simple deathmatch like the ones we had during Sea Trials. It would be nice to have those matches including the shrinking circle of death in Legends as well. However I understand the demand for other gamemodes that require different tactics and a different approach to keep the game interesting on the long run. Not sure wether capture-circles are the right way to achieve that though. (But then again my judgement may differ with more players online.)

I'd also like to point out that Legends still is a game set in the Age of Sail and thus will presumably be more of a niche game. Not as niche as the open world game due to easier access but niche nonetheless. So while I think choice between several options is always a good thing, I'd also state that splitting up a comparatively small amount of players by introducing a lot of gamemodes with separate queues may hurt all the players in the end due to increased waiting time and smaller groups in respective battles. Lots of gamemodes are good, lots of queues are not.

A lobby based gamemode without any rewards but adjustable parameters in retrun would be great. It would provide opportunities for testing and training with friends as well as for things like well-organised group vs. group fights, tournaments or even historic battle setups.

In regards to the battle timer: In my opinion 60 minutes are okay. Combat and movement both are slow paced and I don't see the need to artificially keep the battles short. I don't want the timer to end an intense fight. On the other hand the time you need to actually get into a fight shouldn't be too long. That's why we have an arena-game at all, isn't it? For a Trafalgar match like the ones from Sea Trials (limited to 5th rates and above, at least 20 (?) players necessary to start a match) a 1h timer might even be too short if there is a 25v25 with lots of ships of the line happening.

Edited by Jeremiah Gunsmoke
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