Is anything being done to stop players blocking resource contracts?

[NethrosDefectus]

I'm sure it has been reported before but I will just ask anyway, do the devs intend to stop players from blocking contracts on "buying" resources from the AI on contract being filled by placing their own "selling" contract of one unit of the item for a stupidly high price so no one will buy it.

[Ink]

This issue was reported by players indeed, under investigation at the moment.

[NethrosDefectus]

5 minutes ago, Ink said:

This issue was reported by players indeed, under investigation at the moment.

Good to know, thank you

[shaeberle84]

This is a very severe "feature" to the economy.

Again, a good example how fixed prices (at least for NPC production) do not work. =)

[Skully]

22 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

Again, a good example how fixed prices (at least for NPC production) do not work. =)

Fixed prices won't matter. AI needs to be a normal market participant.

[Raekur]

I think one thing that would help is for contracts to expire after 48 hours similar to the way items posted for auction in other games does. This prevents people from blocking out an item for an extended period of time. With an expiration in place then the only way for someone to block a port from providing resources would be to constantly fork up the money to renew the contract every 48 hours. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 minute ago, Raekur said:

I think one thing that would help is for contracts to expire after 48 hours similar to the way items posted for auction in other games does. This prevents people from blocking out an item for an extended period of time. With an expiration in place then the only way for someone to block a port from providing resources would be to constantly fork up the money to renew the contract every 48 hours. 

I actually like this for those guys that put up insane high priced contracts on some goods.  That and maybe limit what you can put a contract up for rare resources.   It takes 5 to make those mods so maybe limit it to 10 per contract so you can get enough to make 2 mods.  Hell I'm not even sure they are paying out any more. Crooked I been watching and the person with the highest bid contract seems to not be filling.  Which means some one is doing what I use to do.   I knew when it dropped in the morning and i would buy from he shop before it filled the contracts.   Maybe some of these rare items need better limits on the contracts and up the amount they pay out so they pay out to more than one player in a 24 hours.  10 limit is not bad an maybe have 100 pay out a day that means 10 players out of 1000's can get contracts filled.  

[Batman]

56 minutes ago, Skully said:

Fixed prices won't matter. AI needs to be a normal market participant.

Some sort of backup economy run by AI would be nice. If player numbers and thus trading activity drops, Ai should start to increase their production to keep economy running. at least to a certain level.

[Skully]

The fix is really simple, let AI ignore any player offer and just put up its own offer.

In other words: let AI be a normal market participant.

2 minutes ago, Batman said:

If player numbers and thus trading activity drops, Ai should start to increase their production to keep economy running. at least to a certain level.

AI bootstrapping the economy is a different issue.

Edited September 20, 2017 by Skully

[rahzor]

Ass seen in these pictures, these Sellers are blocking buy orders to be auto filled up by AI.

the product will be seeded on market like there are no buy contracts and people can buy them manually, cause its cheaper than the buy order.

[jodgi]

Ah, the joys of eco features...

"We want player driven economy!"

Devs do that and at the drop of the ball players starts scumbagging.

I haven't had any use for my subversive eco alts since fine woods. Should I dust them off or is fix imminent?

I try to keep up but I'm probably too nice too keep up with the shamelessness my eco competitors bask in.

Now, where did I put all those forged papers?...

[jodgi]

1 minute ago, Peter Goldman said:

Don't try to tell me...

Let eco players go full on dog-eats-dog with trade goods, but let anything related to fighting equipment be impossible for eco guys to ruin.

[jodgi]

I was one of the three main eco guys in Rakers. I'm working an inside job.

<Shouting into megaphone> "Do you want the eco guys' clammy hands on your fun bits?!"

[admin]

Hello everyone

Can someone explain to us as if we are five. What specific actions a player should do to block the sale of resources to other contracts? We have tried to reproduce in internal builds and contracts are always filled. 

describe specific steps please

 

[Armored_Sheep]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

Hello everyone

Can someone explain to us as if we are five. What specific actions a player should do to block the sale of resources to other contracts? We have tried to reproduce in internal builds and contracts are always filled. 

describe specific steps please

 

There are player contracts that want to buy Cartagena Tar in Cartagena port.

As soon as there is no player sell offer, NPCs do sell to contractors as soon as Tar becomes available.

Player who has 1 Cartagena Tar than makes contract in Cartagena which will offer his Tar for 1.500.000.

After that NPC will not sell to contrators, but just place the Tar in town shop for low price.

Only player who is present in Cartagena shop will buy from NPCs as soon as the new tar is there.

Desired behavior is that NPC will allways sell for highest price.

[Elouda]

My understanding is as follows; it is only an issue in ports where NPC goods are produced (woods, rare materials, etc).

Normally, the goods generated in these ports are simply placed into the shop.

If there is a player buy contract in the port at a price higher than the NPC shop sell price, the goods are put into the buy contract. If there are multiple buy contracts, the highest paying contract is filled first.

The issue comes here; if there is also a sell contract (typically at very high price, to make them hard to 'buy out') for the good being generated, then instead of being sold to the buy contracts as above, the contracts are ignored and the good is placed in the shop at the regular NPC price as if there were no contracts.

It does not affect the ability of other players to fill the buy orders that exist, it only breaks the mechanism for distribution of generated NPC goods.

This is obviously an economic issue when there are contracts offering say 100k for a good, but by placing a single unit in a sell order, you force the port to ignore this and can buy the generated goods for their base price from the shop (typically much less).

Edited September 21, 2017 by Elouda

[jodgi]

1 hour ago, Peter Goldman said:

Leaving the bug/exploit topic asaid, I would really hope @admin to reconsider any NPC-only produced goods like woods and resources for upgrades. This creates a lot of conflicts inside the nation creating tensions between players and gives a nice purpose for alts (alts are using contracts to block others and alts are bidding because you can't put contracts in enemy ports without outpost). This creates exactly what you wanted to avoid by not implementing clan wars within one nation. Also, the rare goods won't balance for bigger population. With 200-500 players it's not very hard to get mods/woods you want, but it is hard. With 1000 players it will get harder and with 2500 players it will be almost impossible. Players have alts just for bidding. They always keep them in port (I don't have alts. I put a contract and go for PvP/sailing/fighting). Whenever they get outbidded, they outbid you within seconds. That is very unfair advantage and usage in my opinion, but it doesn't break any in-game rules. 

So much this. 

When I found out (or thought… I'm slow) that my alts were useless I thought it was great. That had to be a major step in the right direction in my mind, it seemed to be a more fair playing field with less potential for the few (like me) to just buy an advantage for money.

I'm not sure I quite understand the reason for super-rare stuff, like copper plating or elite rigs, in this game. I'm told it's a thing for PVE grinders; some kind of carrot they get off on grinding out then to enjoy the satisfaction of having better fighting equipment than normal people. If they don't have super-duper stuff to work towards they go into a gaming-existential crisis that makes them whine about "moar kontent!" or quitting because there is no princess in the castle.

If the above is kinda how it goes I guess it's a valid(ish) feature. Whatever the true reason is; Are we sure it does more good than harm (for most players, most of the time)?

I presume it's extremely hard to get rid of grey-area exploits and everything related as long as we deliberately keep something everyone wants away from them.

(In tanks you can fully pimp a mid-level vehicle within days and a tier 8-10 vehicle topped off within weeks. Then you can grind crews for months or years yet never boost the overall fighting capabilities more than 2.5%. And NEVER can you boost speed, which is more important in OW than in tanks.)

Isn't wealth, paints, flags, pennants, custom names or any other non-fighting gear goals enough for the PVE grind-mind?

[jodgi]

The scumbags have upped their game:

[Tac]

@pietjenoob are you selling again?  I expect it will be Martin looter king next.

[jodgi]

3 minutes ago, Tac said:

@pietjenoob are you selling again?  I expect it will be Martin looter king next.

Ah, so Seagull is piet?

[pietjenoob]

Mine?

[Tac]

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

Ah, so Seagull is piet?

No I'm afraid not, we call him the seagull because he swoops down and nicks all the loot in missions, he doesn't even have an alt.

i just couldn't resist.

 

[jodgi]

So tar was put in shop (wherever they're fighting over that).

But *cough* swedes are left standing with their dicks swinging waiting for Grietje...

edit:

Notice how the seller is avoiding doing the 1 item contract for a million billion thing; "Naw, naw, it's a legit contract! I had a few and know they're sought after. Pfft! Scumbag? Me?... Never!"

[George Washington]

21 hours ago, admin said:

Hello everyone

Can someone explain to us as if we are five. What specific actions a player should do to block the sale of resources to other contracts? We have tried to reproduce in internal builds and contracts are always filled. 

describe specific steps please

 

Open market to public similar to potbs. Their contract system works fine. 

Edited September 22, 2017 by George Washington

[Raekur]

Not sure if this was presented or not but how about this approach, if there is a Sell contract active, no Buy contracts can be placed and vice versa. If someone is offering to buy an item at a specific port then anyone who arrives and wants to sell that item should sell to the contract holder just like an NPC. If the item holder wishes to sell the item for a higher price, take the item to a capitol and place a contract there unless someone has placed a contract to buy the item already in which case, wait until the contract expires. I doubt that someone who can place a single item up for sale for a price of 1.5M is really hurting for money.