Work in progress: Dreadnoughts

[Nick Thomadis]

It is still a work in progress but it shows the general art direction.

Thank you all guys for liking!

[z4ys]

Will it have EA like UG: CW or will it be closed testing?

[jekct1212]

Is there any news on when there will be an official announcement?

[Nick Thomadis]

There is going to be an Early Access Launch but we don't have a safe release date yet scheduled. We want to launch in Early Access at the best possible game state, so that the game is playable, stable and enjoyable, not rushed out. 

[jekct1212]

3 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

There is going to be an Early Access Launch but we don't have a safe release date yet scheduled. We want to launch in Early Access at the best possible game state, so that the game is playable, stable and enjoyable, not rushed out. 

Can't wait, this looks good, any idea when this game will get an official announcement?

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by jekct1212

[Destraex]

On 2/9/2018 at 4:31 AM, Nick Thomadis said:

Wanted to share a WIP image of a 1900 British Armored Cruiser.
Hope you like it.

Very nice.

[Destraex]

On 4/12/2018 at 2:47 AM, Nick Thomadis said:

It is a completely different project entity, not having any similarity to the previous Ultimate General games which were about land combat. It is a bold project that we finally decided to make, after years of interest on this time period and the corresponding naval genre.

Will the focus be on realism.... unlike WOWs? I would really love that. 
I wonder if your ultimate general team will combine with the naval action team for this project?

[Nick Thomadis]

Yes, the battles focus on realism. The damage model is very much detailed to simulate almost every aspect of naval warfare. For example, in WoW the ships can receive devastating damage and still sail on maximum speed. In our game you will notice a serious impact on ship performance because of damage and many other realism factors.

Our internal dev teams from time to time can join forces for helping in parallel projects, but at the moment is not needed.

[Destraex]

Nick that really does sound amazing. Is this the sort of game where we control large numbers of vessels or is it more like naval action where we control one?

Is the game going to be like an FPS game or a RTS game? 

I have one friend who always complains when we play world of warships because it really gets under his skin that he is not experiencing anything that would have been a possibility in history but more a childs action game with pretty historically based ship models. We are looking at your project VERY keenly to see if you can come up with a game that is both fun and engaging at the same time as being realistic enough to peak ones intellectual interest in these periods. A game that allows us ship geeks to get excited and use the knowledge we have from our books and other research. It is VERY hard to strike a balance in this regard. But I believe it can be done. Naval Action is pretty close to it right now. I cannot wait for that game to release.

[Sento de Benimaclet]

Nick, more or less when we can enjoy this game? What estimate of time are contemplated? Thank you and good luck with the new project.

[Nick Thomadis]

It is going to be an RTS game, you will control multiple ships, that you design them and bring them to combat. A naval arms race begins from 1890 and you aim to create the most powerful fleet in the world. It is a game that I will personally enjoy very much to play for ages when it becomes complete  Thank you for the wishes and I hope we can deliver the project in early access within this year.

[Destraex]

That sounds good.

I recommend having a look at the nws steam and iron demo if you have never seen that before. This would be amazing with a proper engine. 

This game looks like nothing but has the ability to zoom in and out of the entire globe while allowing you to move your ships and zoom in all in real time. It's problem is looks, no strategy layer and no physics engine as far as I know. It's all real time.

http://www.navalwarfare.net/steam&iron.html

 

Have a look at this at 2:30 or so to see the world map zooming in. Although he does not soom in all the way:

 

[Destraex]

Also have you ever played SES eagle studios Jutland: It's all real time.
This has a huge strategic campaign and realistic physics. It just did not really have much to do in it. I keep meaning to to play this game and just don't get motivated to do it due to all the multiplayer games I have. 

The interface is also very very clumsy. Which is another main reason I do not get around to playing it.

 

[Destraex]

I guess as well as well as wondering if you have played the above games (their is a demo for both SES Jutland and NWS steam and iron), whether these are the kind of games your game may be?

[Nick Thomadis]

The problem with all those games that you are referencing is that they are too complex to play, even for very hard core players. We cannot share something yet more specific but it is safe to say that our main idea is to offer a unique game that will please all naval warfare fans with deep gameplay on strategic and tactical level and without so much micromanagement.

[z4ys]

8 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

The problem with all those games that you are referencing is that they are too complex to play, even for very hard core players. We cannot share something yet more specific but it is safe to say that our main idea is to offer a unique game that will please all naval warfare fans with deep gameplay on strategic and tactical level and without so much micromanagement.

If its kind of similar to UG:CW and intuitive like it,  it will be awesome.

[Raf Van Boom]

Sadly, if it's not made of wood and it doesn't have sails, it's not for me

[Destraex]

55 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

The problem with all those games that you are referencing is that they are too complex to play, even for very hard core players. We cannot share something yet more specific but it is safe to say that our main idea is to offer a unique game that will please all naval warfare fans with deep gameplay on strategic and tactical level and without so much micromanagement.

I would not say those games (Jutland and Steam&Iron) are too complex.  Just that the interfaces\GUI have not made the games intuitive or accessible, the interface makes sense to the developer but is not obvious to the player. Which means it is very frustrating for the player even though all the right ingredients are there. Combine this with the fact that Jutland especially could just play itself with no player input. Because the player generally does not need to do much really. You then are left with what is basically an computer game pretending to be a movie of history rather than a game. Just without the drama a movie would have. You do not get to know what is going on because their is no good interface feedback and so everything seems random. Still they are good games when I am in the mood for managing a historical movie.

What I am trying to say is, please don't skimp on the historical accuracy and detail in your game because you think the player cannot handle it. Rather make your interface provide the correct and tangible feedback?

[Nick Thomadis]

You are right Destraex. It is mostly the game interface and its corresponding mechanics that if made too complex, hard to manage and loaded with unnecessary options, the player does not have intuitive feedback on what is going on and cannot enjoy the game, cannot see the big picture. In battles, you should feel that you are in control intuitively, without having to work it out via a manual. If this happens, then you have time to zoom-in/out, observe the battlefield and your ships, have a clear understanding of the tactical situation and, most of all, have fun with the overall pace of gameplay.

So this is a goal of our game, plus the complexity of the strategy aspect will be on a level that you will feel your actions matter but you will not have to micro-manage every little,tiny aspect to get things going. You will focus on designing your ships, choose carefully your allies and enemies and fight naval battles, with goal to grow stronger and not destroyed by the AI. Since I mentioned AI, I will also mention that we aim to make it a very strong opponent, especially in naval battles, that will fight coherently, making naval formations and understanding when to evade battles.

[Destraex]

Thanks Nick.

I loved ultimate general but because of it's scope and that their was not enough detail for me. I did not play it much

When Ultimate General Civil War came out I grabbed it in alpha and played it a fair bit due to the persistent elements. But I wanted a multiplayer element.

Overall though the terrain and the fact their were really no micro elements kind of limited the longevity of the game.

Don't get me wrong. They were great games but I think they needed better terrain, the terrain felt like a flat map on a dining table and  a lot more for the human to do when it came to formations (depth of line etc) and tactics. But the civil war was fairly limited in that regard anyways. Ideally what you wanted WAS Steel Division (one of my favourite RTS games) in your era. Which means 10 player multiplayer with decks and as much action and historical authenticity as possible. Steel Division though, still falls down by way of being more about real time micro at the expense of other units you cannot look at and control on the other side of the field as they die. A very common RTS problem. WEGO such as in the combat mission games fixes this problem if you want a really huge scope. But when it comes to ship games, the problem of time becomes the opposite... i.e. you have more time than you need and can relax. I am looking forward to that in your new game.

Another great realistic RTS I am looking forward too is close combat 3D bloody first. 

[DeRuyter]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 6:50 AM, Destraex said:

Thanks Nick.

I loved ultimate general but because of it's scope and that their was not enough detail for me. I did not play it much

When Ultimate General Civil War came out I grabbed it in alpha and played it a fair bit due to the persistent elements. But I wanted a multiplayer element.

Overall though the terrain and the fact their were really no micro elements kind of limited the longevity of the game.

Don't get me wrong. They were great games but I think they needed better terrain, the terrain felt like a flat map on a dining table and  a lot more for the human to do when it came to formations (depth of line etc) and tactics. But the civil war was fairly limited in that regard anyways. Ideally what you wanted WAS Steel Division (one of my favourite RTS games) in your era. Which means 10 player multiplayer with decks and as much action and historical authenticity as possible. Steel Division though, still falls down by way of being more about real time micro at the expense of other units you cannot look at and control on the other side of the field as they die. A very common RTS problem. WEGO such as in the combat mission games fixes this problem if you want a really huge scope. But when it comes to ship games, the problem of time becomes the opposite... i.e. you have more time than you need and can relax. I am looking forward to that in your new game.

Another great realistic RTS I am looking forward too is close combat 3D bloody first. 

I generally have the opposite view on RTS games - I love the concept of Steel Division, but I am terrible at it. I like to relax and think about moves. UG:CW is good as RTS because of the time period. Maybe because I come from the traditional wargame world of IGOUGO or WEGO - Combat Mission is a favorite. WEGO is maybe more common in naval games?  - Mare Nostrum is an example there. Maybe it is the scope - SD and WG have too many units to keep track of and then they are destroyed - lol. I will give the new CC a try though, smaller in scope than SD.

Anyway just my 2c - and I totally agree with your notion about ship games above.

 

[Destraex]

DeRuyter... I am getting older (over 40 now) and do prefer combat mission to steel division. However I play steel division a fair bit because the interface is better, the zooming and range tools are great and easy to use. But primarily because I can play with all of my friends (up to 10 per side). Combat Mission will no doubt never achieve this. It will remain a lonely game where 1 v 1 over email is the most common form of play. 

As for mare nostrum. I have played it and get really excited about ancient galley games. But found trireme commander to be more my style. Mare Nostrum did a number of things I did not like. It did not show boarding actions and had no real system to show them. Boarding actions were EXTREMELY important in the ancient era and mare nostrum was a simple dice roll vs marine strength factor. Also boarding happened from many sides and the game did not allow that iirc. Add to that the raking mechanic is random with no player control and mare nostrum becomes an exersize in futility. Add to this that the graphics do not really add much atmosphere to the game at all. They could be a lot more enjoyable to look at. Half the point of naval warfare games is to look at the beautiful ships. But what can you expect from such a niche. I think the problem with mare nostrum was that it basically follow a tabletop set of rules to the letter. Where a game like battletech did this and I could not stop playing it right through until the end of the story.

[Alex Connor]

On 6/10/2018 at 9:28 PM, Nick Thomadis said:

It is going to be an RTS game, you will control multiple ships, that you design them and bring them to combat. A naval arms race begins from 1890 and you aim to create the most powerful fleet in the world. It is a game that I will personally enjoy very much to play for ages when it becomes complete  Thank you for the wishes and I hope we can deliver the project in early access within this year.

That is really cool, basically everything I was hoping for about the game when first announced and then some :)

Particularly interested in building a fleet vs just building individual ships, I'm already planning classes of battleships, cruisers and destroyers (and maybe even some hybrid types). That balance between quantity and quality of individual ships is going to be fun to play around with, not to mention trying to design ships that will still be useful (or can be upgraded in useful ways) even when they are no longer the peak of available technology.

 

[James Cornelius]

I referenced Storm Eagle's Jutland at one point earlier as well. As @Nick Thomadis points out, one of the chief problems these games had was a terribly complex and unfriendly interface. The mechanics were detailed but inaccessible due to the game design.

 

I compare that to, say, Koei's P.T.O. II which I played decades ago on a SNES which had the opposite problem - very simple interface, but likewise very simple mechanics underneath.

 

All mechanics discussions aside, I'm very excited for this project. As a ship's engineer and naval architect I sometimes curse that I was born too late to take part in designing during what I suspect we would all consider the golden age of steel ships.

[JagEngland]

@admin

This sounds very promising! While not a RTS player myself, I've always wanted a game similar to this one.

One question: Will it be an open world strategy game? Can I leave Kiel and try to make my way past the home fleet and escape into the Atlantic? 

Or will it just be a tactical arena, where I am given some opponents to defeat.

Thank you.

 

- Jag