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Politics and PBs (Patch 11 - "Clan Wars")

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Just now, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

So, what would be the point of it then? 

Outside of capital waters is ffa the point is that we could represent a nation not be tied to it and it would be heaps more fun 

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Islamorada SOL port battle:  25 US vs 25 Pirates

10 US ships sunk with none lost on the pirate side. I know we captured a few out side also so more was lost.

 

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4 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Islamorada SOL port battle:  25 US vs 25 Pirates

10 US ships sunk with none lost on the pirate side. I know we captured a few out side also so more was lost.

 

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May I ask you  to analyze this battle? Share your experience, please; tactics used by both sides, main reasons of victory/defeat? 

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2 hours ago, Longshot said:

May I ask you  to analyze this battle? Share your experience, please; tactics used by both sides, main reasons of victory/defeat? 

that i was right that the US Should of stayed fighting the brits aka ARMED CKA & Elite and practised against us they are not ready to fight the rats but hey 

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When you bring three mortar brigs and a Connie to an already undermanned first rate fleet battle there will only ever be one outcome (unless there's complete incompetence on the part of the superior force). CKA should have committed first rate help instead twiddling their thumbs outside in 5th rates and basic cutters.

But it appears that it was at least a fight inside, and the US should take solace in that they aren't the first to lose a port battle. ;) You learn something new every time and next time you get better. 

 We had a few unbalanced battles outside, capped an ill advised fleeing Santi, but nothing spectacular. Thanks to the US for showing, and hopefully we can meet you on more even terms next time.

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2 hours ago, Rebrall said:

that i was right that the US Should of stayed fighting the brits aka ARMED CKA & Elite and practised against us they are not ready to fight the rats but hey 

We beat them before, they beat us now. We'll have to learn to beat them again.

Edited by Longshot

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If it was only clan vs clans in Port Battles , quite a few of them would be running away from anybody able to field a full 25 clan port battle. Outside in the OW it could be very different

 

Lets hope we see more clan vs clan going forward but i think a reduction from 25 to 15 (PB's)  might help. There seems to be no clan right now who could fill a 25 without multiboxers and setting a time that suits everybody

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2 hours ago, Rebrall said:

that i was right that the US Should of stayed fighting the brits aka ARMED CKA & Elite and practised against us they are not ready to fight the rats but hey 

i did suggest that the Brits do this.  Falls on deaf ears

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The US has been fighting the Brits and anyone else in our area of control.  There is nightly PVP on the US coast.  If a fight is in combat news, odds are it was a US player.

We can't fight the Brits in their home waters since we are separated by half a map and an active enemy between us.

It is time for other nations to fight, not the US.

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In response to the request for strategy and lessons learned. 

Before I get started, kudos to all the US Captains who showed up.  We would have been able to field a full 25 1st rate fleet had that been the battle strategy.  I believe this is the first time in a while the US could say that.  Tiphat to all!   I was the battle commander for the US side and although not my first time, it was my first time in a long, long time.  Bottom line is I did not do a very good job.

As is obvious now, we took three mortar brigs into the fight.  The decision had been discussed during the day and the thought was the mortars could help stall the initial surge and damage enough ships in transit to the center circle to give us better odds.  The mortar Captains did a great job, but I am not sure that tactic works.  I probably counted on the mortars to do more damage than they are capable of.

My main strategy for the fight was to take the battle into the middle circle.  The Pirates did not have a mortar brig and I hoped that between the Forts and the mortars we could tip the odds into our favor.  I sent three ships to take circle B and eventually two of the Victories from B to C.  My goal was to keep two circles and sink enough ships to win the fight.  Strategy was sound but execution did not go as planned especially as the wind turned in the wrong direction for the Victories to make it to C quickly as I had hoped.

As the Pirates approached the center circle our mortars engaged them.  I kept our ships on a heading that would take us across the Pirate fleet believing I could maneuver the Pirates between us and the Coast.  For the most part that plan worked, however, several Pirates turned and sailed parallel to our fleet and rather than turning when I initially planned to I had the fleet continue sailing in order to fire on the Pirates sailing parallel to us.  This decision actually hurt us as we ended up sailing further from the center circle than I would have preferred which was a major negative later in the fight.

We lost a ship really early in the fight for some reason.  I am not sure what happened but once we executed the turn we did have the Pirates between us and the coastline as I had hoped.  By this time the mortars were retreating into a safer location.  It was around this time that things began to unravel in my battle commander role.  I found my self stalled behind a roadblock of ships in front of me and scratching paint with several Pirate ships.  Unfortunately, trying to unravel that knot cost me precious time and situational awareness of the overall fight.  My intention was to stay in the fight but not be overwhelmed by the combat which I failed to accomplish.  It was around this time that I made probably my worse decision of the fight and lost control over Battle communications.  One of the Victory Captains offered to provide targeting instructions to the ships since he was not engaged (trying to cap C) and could focus on the battle map.  Knowing I was unable to save my ship and watch the map at the same time I decided to let him do so.  He did a great job calling the targets but unfortunately I was lacking In giving battle directions.  Ultimately I realized the errors of my way but honestly by that time it was too late.  We had already lost four to five ships and were widely spread out.

After trying to get a few ships back into the center circle, my final hope was to get our ships between circle A and B (which we held for most of the fight).  Still catching up on my situational awareness I was late in making this call which left our ships way to close to the coastline to make a good turn.  However, the move would have put the Pirates in range of the Mortars.  From there, with their support if we could hold two (or even three) of the circles with the mortars demisting the Pirate ships we might still win the fight.  However, the points were against us by this time as we were down seven or eight ships.

I called the retreat but folks decided to fight on and we lost a few more 1st rates after that including mine.

Lessons learned:

Mortars may have a role in 1st rate PB but not sure.

US had 25 ships.  A great first start but now we need to learn to fight.

We need to learn to sink enemy ships and not just hurt them.  Throughout the fight there were numerous Pirate ships right on the edge of sinking but we did not get the Kill Shot.

Sailing straight is better than turning.  We ended up doing a lot of turning while the Pirates for the most part were able to sail generally in a straight line.  It made a huge difference as they were able to stay together much better than we did.

Too many stragglers.  I am not sure what happened but every time I checked the Map I found someone sailing all alone and outside the fight.  I understand the need for repairs but several times this was not the case.  We even had one Captain end up in the middle of the Pirate fleet only to be rapidly Captured as the rest of the US fleet was sailing in the opposite direction.

DONT GIVE UP BATTLE COMMS!  You can not lead if you are not in charge.

Group up closer in the beginning of the battle.  I felt comfortable with being spread out early, but hindsight being 20/20 it would have been better had I moved everyone to the middle of the circle and closer together.  I had our ships too far to the edge of the circle which made it harder to get back into it once we needed to.

If you are going to be the Battle Commander you need to fight but your first job is managing the battle.  I let myself get distracted too many times by being engaged by multiple Pirates at once.  Situational awareness is critical and you can't maintain it when you are worried about being boarded.

Summary:

Great fight Pirates.  Great fight US.  We showed up which is a critical first step in our evolution as a fighting force.  The Pirates are good but we are getting better (albeit slowly).  We will get there eventually.

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5 hours ago, Longshot said:

We beat them before, they beat us now. We'll have to learn to beat them again.

Not saying you can't but the opertunity to get better was there and still is but you all went after the rats instead 

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Look at the end of the day the US guys should of recognized an issue when they almost lost a PB against 13 guys in gb vs there 25, 

 

im not trying to kick you while you are down. Really happy to see you fight Ike you did vs the rats. But the opertunity to get better and having 3-4 really good PB fleets between a few nations went to poop when the alliance or pact was made.

to the guys in my side crying about why we fighting the us look and the PB results of this fight it could of been a lot better if we all had the time to improve and mold our groups into one instead of splinters and hope for the best.

@IndianaGeoff no offense bud but when the rats or gb can walk up to any port of yours and take it we don't need to fight and  the us are welcome to make a port close to gb anytime Christ if push came to shove I could even get you a gb escort to the port  

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10 hours ago, Longshot said:

May I ask you  to analyze this battle? Share your experience, please; tactics used by both sides, main reasons of victory/defeat? 

I'll do a write up today on our part was just in a rush last night and posted the results.  I thank @Blackjack McGee (PS I keeped you l'Ocean) from doing it from his point of view and I'll add in the big mistakes we saw in the battle and took advantage of.  Poor VCO finally got to hear what our coms sounds like and it's never pretty at the start of the fights so no clan is perfect or battle group, but when it gets time down to do what is needed we do it.

7 hours ago, Rebrall said:

that i was right that the US Should of stayed fighting the brits aka ARMED CKA & Elite and practised against us they are not ready to fight the rats but hey 

I been saying it for over a year, there is a reason I keep saying US and GB should fight.  To be honest I think US has the better fighting force cause of all the OW PvP some of them get (speaking of US prime time).  While GB has it's strongest fighters in one of the worse time zones for one nation and another to have fighters in.  If anything Danes and Brits should be having some fun in that time zone since ya'll have the most AUS/SEA players.  Just let poor CCCP know next time.  They didn't know about the arrangement with SCAR and ARMED over fighting over ports and was very pissed SCAR didn't even show up.  Sadly I think SCAR is pretty much dead right now so it would be more AMRED vs CCCP in any fights between them.  Just a heads up there prime time is West coast Aussie prime time if your looking for a good fight.   That should match up with @Norfolk nChance times.

5 hours ago, Longshot said:

We beat them before, they beat us now. We'll have to learn to beat them again.

Not to sound cocky but honestly when have you ever beat us 1st rates vs 1st rates and not counting before patches when server is dead?  The only times we have ever lost fights was either none prime times or when server was dead and pop was down.  I would love to see a fight where ya'll actually won a 25 vs 25....not a 25 vs 10.   Even than we won out number a lot of times.

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

When you bring three mortar brigs and a Connie to an already undermanned first rate fleet battle there will only ever be one outcome (unless there's complete incompetence on the part of the superior force). CKA should have committed first rate help instead twiddling their thumbs outside in 5th rates and basic cutters.

But it appears that it was at least a fight inside, and the US should take solace in that they aren't the first to lose a port battle. ;) You learn something new every time and next time you get better. 

 We had a few unbalanced battles outside, capped an ill advised fleeing Santi, but nothing spectacular. Thanks to the US for showing, and hopefully we can meet you on more even terms next time.

With your permission I'll use the map you sent me. It was handy in making the plans instead of letting @Willis PVP2 do some scribbles on a map for us.  LOL ya'll really should see when he draws up the battle plans.  It's more out of good fun than actual battle plans cause nothing ever goes the same as you plan once the shots are fired.  This is also something I think hurts US they make plans but they don't know yet how to adapt on the fly as a group.

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In fairness to the parties involved, there are 3 dogs in the fight at the moment and any of them with an ounce of grey cells will hope that 2 of the others fight it out, they even try to instigate this. Until such a time when the dynamic shifts , the stronger of the dogs will be the one who watches the other two fight it out.

 

rats were vulnerable before VCO bolstered their ranks and weakened the Gb. Usa are still learning but have more numbers than before

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

Not saying you can't but the opertunity to get better was there and still is but you all went after the rats instead 

The US had what? 4 port battles against clans this week.  1 with 3 store bought ships on the enemy side, 2 empty ones and a good 1st rate fight.

We are showing up to fight.

Oh, and and in this latest one, the Pirates attacked us.

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32 minutes ago, Vizzini said:

In fairness to the parties involved, there are 3 dogs in the fight at the moment and any of them with an ounce of grey cells will hope that 2 of the others fight it out, they even try to instigate this. Until such a time when the dynamic shifts , the stronger of the dogs will be the one who watches the other two fight it out.

 

rats were vulnerable before VCO bolstered their ranks and weakened the Gb. Usa are still learning but have more numbers than before

 

 

The US can do 3 or 4 real port battles a week.  Maybe one of them a 1st rate fight and an extra week to rebuild if we lose a lot of ships in it.  A busier schedule than that will probably overload us.  Most players can't port battle every night.

The game is not generating a significant number of new players.  That has not recovered.  We are not seeing old players return in any numbers.

This game has one more chance when it goes to beta.  But they better get it right this time.  Another failure will doom it.  And the game can have one more full reset, but that will be it.  Even that would be iffy and it would be a good idea not to have any more.

Edited by IndianaGeoff

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47 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

With your permission I'll use the map you sent me. It was handy in making the plans instead of letting @Willis PVP2 do some scribbles on a map for us.  LOL ya'll really should see when he draws up the battle plans.  It's more out of good fun than actual battle plans cause nothing ever goes the same as you plan once the shots are fired.  This is also something I think hurts US they make plans but they don't know yet how to adapt on the fly as a group.

Sure, that's fine by me.

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1 hour ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I'll do a write up today on our part was just in a rush last night and posted the results.  I thank @Blackjack McGee (PS I keeped you l'Ocean) from doing it from his point of view and I'll add in the big mistakes we saw in the battle and took advantage of.  Poor VCO finally got to hear what our coms sounds like and it's never pretty at the start of the fights so no clan is perfect or battle group, but when it gets time down to do what is needed we do it.

I been saying it for over a year, there is a reason I keep saying US and GB should fight.  To be honest I think US has the better fighting force cause of all the OW PvP some of them get (speaking of US prime time).  While GB has it's strongest fighters in one of the worse time zones for one nation and another to have fighters in.  If anything Danes and Brits should be having some fun in that time zone since ya'll have the most AUS/SEA players.  Just let poor CCCP know next time.  They didn't know about the arrangement with SCAR and ARMED over fighting over ports and was very pissed SCAR didn't even show up.  Sadly I think SCAR is pretty much dead right now so it would be more AMRED vs CCCP in any fights between them.  Just a heads up there prime time is West coast Aussie prime time if your looking for a good fight.   That should match up with @Norfolk nChance times.

We did our part in fighting the US, unfortunately the rest of Britain was too pusscake.  GB and US need practice fighting similar opponents in port battles and refuse to fight the only kid on the block at their level......and they'll never get better because of it.

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56 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

The US had what? 4 port battles against clans this week.  1 with 3 store bought ships on the enemy side, 2 empty ones and a good 1st rate fight.

We are showing up to fight.

Oh, and and in this latest one, the Pirates attacked us.

While we did attack Nassua but that was NPG and I warned MARS about it and told them we have no issues with US staying in the Northern Bahamas as long as they don't try to move into the southern.  One nation owning all the shallows is a bad thing as it gives folks of that nation nothing to hunt.  I would actually encourage the other nations to take a port up there on one side of the line or the other.  Spainish and Danes are more than welcome to take a port on the south Bahamas side.  Brits I assume your going to want to take one with your US friends?   France if your out there your free to take one too.  This will encourage shallow water PvP, trade and other things.  Nassau as long as it's in pirate hands will remain open to all.  Just as we had plan to keep La Navasse the same (ARMED can make a call about making it open to all now).   We wanted to encourage a trade hub.  Though with Nassau we have no problems fighitng over that port if the others want to and won't take retaliation against any attacks unless they are something like what CKA did early this week.  Flip it in prime time and not show up. Waisted our time but we figure it was cause of an attack on a small clans shallow water port in the gulf we heard they showed up to screen/flip.

Exactly we attacked you after you attacked two pirate ports.  While we have told them they won't get any support in the gulf from most of the other clans, but any way they took neutral ports not US ports.  You than attacked and took Hitten Hatcha and Las Sabinas from pirates.  That is two ports that US attacked FIRST.   So since these where actions of MARS we attacked a MARS port for that reason and another.  They been cocky saying that all the Florida is there's and no one can have they Keys.  Well guess what we plan to have every nation in the keys to make that the new OW PvP hotzone for every one.  Not only that this is also for a third thing a result of ya'll little meeting last week where you decided to become a bunch of carebears and KILL THE EVIL PIRATES.  As you can see when some one declares war on you even in private you don't sit around and wait for them to make the first big strike. You attacked two of our ports so we took one of yours.  We might even go back to the 2 for one deal, so that means your going to loose 3 more.  Might want to get them fleets ready.

1 hour ago, Vizzini said:

In fairness to the parties involved, there are 3 dogs in the fight at the moment and any of them with an ounce of grey cells will hope that 2 of the others fight it out, they even try to instigate this. Until such a time when the dynamic shifts , the stronger of the dogs will be the one who watches the other two fight it out.

rats were vulnerable before VCO bolstered their ranks and weakened the Gb. Usa are still learning but have more numbers than before

You might want to look at that port battle screen shot again.  VCO only came and screened for us.  We ended up filling the battle group with mostly our guys in BLACK/BLOOD.    We thank them for helping us fleep it and screening as we plan to do the same for them when they attack a port and plan to assist them in defending any ports they own.  Just as we expect them to help us.  That is how team work and organization works.  All VCO did was fill in our ranks of the guys that left and went Spanish or in GS6 cause haven't came back to the game.  We actually still have less active players than we had before this last patch and before wipe.  

Edited by Sir Texas Sir

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1 minute ago, Christendom said:

We did our part in fighting the US, unfortunately the rest of Britain was too pusscake.  GB and US need practice fighting similar opponents in port battles and refuse to fight the only kid on the block at their level......and they'll never get better because of it.

Exactly I want them to get organized and better.  The only way to do that is to fight some one of there level of skills.  That and a few wins on either side would be good for the moral.  

If you been doing the same thing the same way for over a year and half and it's not working, wouldn't you think it would be a good time to make a change?  

Oh and any one notice the Brits clans are grabbing up a lot of ports?  They are about to make the same mistakes they did the last patch.....spreading all over the place where other clans can not come help you defend key ports.

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20 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

Exactly we attacked you after you attacked two pirate ports.  While we have told them they won't get any support in the gulf from most of the other clans, but any way they took neutral ports not US ports.  You than attacked and took Hitten Hatcha and Las Sabinas from pirates.  That is two ports that US attacked FIRST.   So since these where actions of MARS we attacked a MARS port for that reason and another.  

Edited for brevity.

Really?  You want us to fight to our level, but you jump in first chance you get.  Why don't you let you nations clans fight it out with the US?

Someone took ports in the gulf.  Leaving off the crap they pulled after stabbing their own nation in the back, they could not defend what they took.  Maybe you should apply your advice for us to them.  Go fight at the level you are ready for.

Why not let VCO and MARS go at it.  As you say, we need to fight at our own level.  Let them fight at their own level too.

We have defended our areas from the Brits.  We can't help it if they don't defend ports they took.

Now we learn that we are heading back to the old self declared dictatorship model.  Do exactly what we say or you will be crushed... For your in good.

How about this, let people fight, win or lose, dust it off and rebuild to do it again.  Leave the we rule the server crap at home.

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