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Norfolk nChance

Idea: Mixed fleet Port Battles...

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Idea: Mixed Fleet Port Battles…

@admin & @Ink

 

Just reading a thread by @King of Crowns and sort of spun onto mixed fleet Port Battles suggested by @Cmdr RideZ. It’s really being mentioned a good few times and I think most would agree a tad more realistic than seeing 25x SoLs versus 25x SoLs. Most I assume would like to see this somehow implemented. I thought it deserved its own thread in suggestions rather than KoC OP…

@Cmdr Ridez suggests 10x 4th + 8x 3rd + 5x 2nd + 2x 1st

I think the problem why it probably hasn’t happened is the choice mechanic. The above structure or small number derivatives look like a coding headache. The idea I have (and mind you its off a bottle of red so blow holes in it) is the Battle Rating system to change.

Read to the end to see how it un-complicates choice issues and things. The BR divisor is made much bigger between ship rates.

image.png.116e9395879acebde72d2220dcfb9fcf.png

So, imagine a Ship of the Line Port Battle. Each Side gets 2,500,000 BR to spend. You could have 2x 1st but not three 0r 25x all 2nd rates just as long its below 2,500,000. The table below is my choice. Here you might not agree with the choice but you can see how the top-heavy restrictions become difficult.

The third column would max amount of that rated ship you could use. The fourth column is how many ships I pick. So, 2x 1st, 3x 2nd, 4x 3rd and so on till I reach 25 totals. The last column is my spend which is slightly shy of 2.5m at 2,458,300.

As I’ve stated am long a good bottle of red, but I can see the 2nd Rate BR Divisor is too low maybe 600k so only 4 could be used. You get the idea right. These numbers need playing with but do put ships into the right Ratable Value.

Not sure if this is a workable solution, but very easy to code as its already done. Its adding the Value of the Port Battle that’s the tricky part…

Let me know what you think rubbish or otherwise…

 

 

Norfolk.

     

MY Choice

 

Ship Rate

 BR Divsor

Max Per PB

           2,500,000

 
         

1

          1,000,000

                      2

2

   2,000,000

2

              100,000

                   25

3

      300,000

3

                25,000

                 25

4

      100,000

4

                10,000

                 25

5

         50,000

5

                  1,000

             25 

8

           8,000

6

                      100

           25 

3

               300

7

                        10

         25 

 

                  -  

         
 

          2,500,000

 

25

   2,458,300

Edited by Norfolk nChance

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I also would wish for Port Battles to have different player limits as well as I have said elsewhere.

6v6, 10v10, 15v15, 25v25.

Would be nice so that all sizes of clans and groups could participate.

Edited by Teutonic

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30 minutes ago, fox2run said:

And please make them open FOR ALL!!

Why do you want to play with others who don't want to play with you? 

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1 hour ago, Teutonic said:

I also would wish for Port Battles to have different player limits as well as I have said elsewhere.

6v6, 10v10, 15v15, 25v25.

Would be nice so that all sizes of clans and groups could participate.

 

 

OK for all then try this…

Barcos, West Cuba, Shallow Port. This is a very small insignificant place. So, let’s say Hostility grind is 7 AI fleet. The Port Battle AI defense is 10 ships. The Hostility BR is 700 and the PB is 1,000. You could take a Surprise or Frigate but the shallows will make you a sitting duck…

Next Cartagena de Indias, South America, Deep Water Port. Key location holding some resources for all basic ship builds. Main Hostility 10x AI. The Port Battle needs to be big boys and a main event so BR 10,000,000.

USE the 2nd Rates as 600k and third Rates as 300k BR Devisor… Build the best fleet you can remember you’ll Mortar Brigs…

 

Two extremes, but one involves a small group of players and the other involves the FULL MONTY. Let me know what fleets you come up with for the 2 PBs and what would need tweaking to make it diversify…

 

Norfolk.

 

 

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3 hours ago, fox2run said:

And please make them open FOR ALL!!

If you want clan content than join a clan.   Every other game is like that.  If you want port battles without being in a clan they have this new game coming out soon just for you.

 

BR limits in a Port battle would mean you need a lobby and we don't want lobby's for an OW sandbox.  Save that for the NA: L game.

 

Though I do agree it would be nice to see some ports that are only 5th rate and below or 3rd rate and below or as @Teutonic mention 12 vs 12  instead of 25 vs 25. I wouldn't go lower than that cause it's for a port battle.  Maybe make raids that are 6x6, 12x12, or 25x25, but anything smaller than than 12 really should be for a raid not a port battle over control of a port.

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48 minutes ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

BR limits in a Port battle would mean you need a lobby and we don't want lobby's for an OW sandbox.  Save that for the NA: L game.

This don't require a lobby at all, now that pb are clan related and we can create 25players battlegroup, it's up to the participants to anticipate the compo in advance, if you bring too much it's too bad for your last player that will stay outside like when you bring 26 players instead of 25. Also this could lead to less than 25 players pb, for exemple the Norfolk compo could face 7 ships if the other side choose to bring 2 Ocean and 5 Buccentaures. 

 

But i think frigates and smaller should not enter rated ship PB

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Didnt read anything here sorry.

Mixed fleets would just show you why most pbs between nations are not in 4th rates anymore. When the OW fleet can be stronger than the PB flert you get a screening problem if you dont have enough screeners in heavy ships

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Cons:

It doesnt fit the game. The more artificial restrictions, the less plausible it becomes. How do you explain to the guy not able to join in a first rate why other first rates were able to join? You can atleast explain 4th rate PBs with water depth for example. The total number of players in one battle has to be restricted, but thats it. 

It does not fix the cause of the problem. This is basically a balancing issue. If not everyone would easily achieve max rank and the largest possible ship, PBs would be mixed up more. Instead of a PB, the 25 vs. 25 1st rates battles would happen somewhere else.

People want to use their heaviest ships, not the ships the game tells them to use. If your clan managed to build a full 1st rate fleet, then you want to make use of it. Its also removing the possibility to gain advantages from bringing heavier fleets than your opponent, call it an economic advantage.

In general it makes no sense to give everyone easy first rates and then not allow people to use them. Whats the logic not to restrict SoL production instead?

Its cheating on economy. When youre able to build more firstrates, but youre told to build smaller ships instead, this is causing inflation. 

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56 minutes ago, rediii said:

Didnt read anything here sorry.

Mixed fleets would just show you why most pbs between nations are not in 4th rates anymore. When the OW fleet can be stronger than the PB flert you get a screening problem if you dont have enough screeners in heavy ships

 

I hope the first line you wrote was a joke. You are one of the most respected Captains in the whole game. Whether my idea is rubbish or not I expected a better reply.

 

The second point I see where you are coming from. The BR Divisor I thought would help stop this. 

 

rgds

 

Norfolk

 

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Just now, Norfolk nChance said:

 

I hope the first line you wrote was a joke. You are one of the most respected Captains in the whole game. Whether my idea is rubbish or not I expected a better reply.

 

The second point I see where you are coming from. The BR Divisor I thought would help stop this. 

 

rgds

 

Norfolk

 

The thing is that the suggestion of mixed fleet portbattles comes up nearly as much as the idea of a servermerge. But we have to argue in both suggestions over and over again because else it looks like the idea is well accepted

First comment was just a honest comment because I didnt read the other comments because it comes up so many times.

What should in my oppinion be more discussed is another form of small portbattles for 10 guys for example.

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45 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

The screening problem could be solved via tying the br cap to battlegroups, that way, screeners will not be able to screen in 25 1st rates

So higher BR cant tag lower BR?

RoEception ... too many rules :)

I like how it is now

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6 minutes ago, rediii said:

So higher BR cant tag lower BR?

RoEception ... too many rules :)

I like how it is now

so, there is no way you can think around this? The BR Devisor reduces rules I thought, made it easier

I really did think something was here with this

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No, what i suggest is just that you can't form an ow battlegroup with a br higher than a pb battlegroup max br, that way, you can screen, but that will just lead to a fair battle, not griefing a group having to respect pb restiction with a 25 group with no restriction.

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2 minutes ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

No, what i suggest is just that you can't form an ow battlegroup with a br higher than a pb battlegroup max br, that way, you can screen, but that will just lead to a fair battle, not griefing a group having to respect pb restiction with a 25 group with no restriction.

Well then I just form no group and attack the pb group anyway. everyone gets pulled in not just battlegroups so you face 25 1sts or whatever lineships

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Mixed fleets is a good idea + different fleet sizes.

My recommendation is there just to make a point.  If devs implement something like this, they can make very many different and interesting scenarios at the same time.

It is not KoC, I have heard that there are many smaller clans that are in situation that they have to join a bigger clan or not play at all.  I think pretty common size for a group of friends is somewhere around 5, but that KoC number 5-10 could be pretty good estimate for smaller clans.

 

@rediii I write you later why repair kits are currently breaking the game and bad.

There are more issues than screening in this one.  One of these is what kind of UI is needed to make this possible?  Right now it is that you sail next to a port and if you belong to the same clan or friend clan, and you ship is not bigger than what is allowed you are in.

For mixed fleet players and clans have to organize it so that they have all these different ships.

We have screening for people who are solo, are in too small clans, have some reason why they cannot participate + some think it is a lot of fun to be a screener.  Screening has some other issues, like when we had flags, you were able to make someone wait there 2 hours with a false flag.  Screening is also a tool that big nations/clans can use vs small nations/clans to prohibit Port Battles all together.  This leads to big clans and we have plenty of people playing this game who do not want to be in a big clan.

Lobby, that everyone hates.  This option gives anyway room for smaller clans to participate and also for multiple port battle scenarios.  Lobby would give more reason to defend in hostility missions as after that you can do nothing to stop a port battle.  Big clan cannot just pop there at the final moment to block the whole show.  This would make hostility missions far more interesting as those would be your place to defend/screen before the final battle.

For playability, to reach bigger market sector, mixed fleets and fleet sizes is a very good option.  I highly recommend.  I am pretty sure that most people agree with me here.  Now the only question is that how we implement this so that it works and creates interesting RvR experience for us all.

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Another issue is that if you survived the screening and at the gates you notice that you do not have any more right composition to get in, but you have other ships and that sucks.

It could be also so that you can screen hostility missions, but port battle is then a lobby.  We have had issues that none cares about hostility missions, which makes those pure PvE grind.  This lobby system would make those more interesting.  When you declare your hostility mission, defender can see that and start screening.  Now you really have to screen hostility missions if you want to screen.  If you lose 4 hostility missions your last option is to win in this lobby based port battle.  There has to be max amount of hostility missions at the same time so that defender can defend.  Can it be so that 2 attacking clans can fight in same mission to take each others hostility?

So...

1. Port Battle is a lobby

2. You screen hostility missions

3. When someone wins X hostility missions against you, they get free lobby access to fight from the port.

4. Ports have mixed fleets and each has specified fleet sizes

 

This is just an example how we can...

1. Keep screening in game

2. Make hostility missions important and interesting

3. Make mixed fleets and sizes possible

 

Notice, I wrote while it came in my mind, I am not saying this will be flawless idea.  Brainstroming mainly here.

 

edit..

Maybe size of your clan could define how many hostility missions can be targeted against ports owned by your clan.  At the same time and per day.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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So, uh, who in their right mind would go for anything other than a 25x 2nd rate mono fleet in that iteration?

The numbers can always be altered, but I think that one of the main hindrances that people (and the devs) have talked about with such a system is that it pretty much requires some form of lobby to work. Otherwise you end up dilly-dallying with the numbers and all of a sudden a 1st rate is unable to get in because 1,501,000 points have been spent or whatever, so people need to be able to enter, and then organize who gets in, and so on.

That said, the clan wars patch to prohibit alts from messing these kind of things up is one step in the direction to actually make it viable. Still kinda doubt that a simple cap is going to lead to much more than either a mono fleet of the highest denomination and/or weird weighing of the ship "PB BR" to try and prevent that.

Edited by Aegir

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Lobby pbs also decrease pvp on ow.

#nolobby

I would say yes to 10 or 12 player pbs mixed in the pbs we have now though

Oh and yes, no mixed fleets please. Its difficult even now for many to get the right ship to the right place.  

Also big ships dominate in this game in group battles. next problem is that you have to make your fleetcomp anyway so that you have 25 ships and then you force people to sail ships they dont want because they wanna go big.

I dont like it. There are many differrnt problems to adress with this.

Rather develop something new than change a existing mechanic again (which is working btw)

Edited by rediii

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3 minutes ago, Aegir said:

So, uh, who in their right mind would go for anything other than a 25x 2nd rate mono fleet in that iteration?

The numbers can always be altered, but I think that one of the main hindrances that people (and the devs) have talked about with such a system is that it pretty much requires some form of lobby to work. Otherwise you end up dilly-dallying with the numbers and all of a sudden a 1st rate is unable to get in because 1,501,000 points have been spent or whatever, so people need to be able to enter, and then organize who gets in, and so on.

The BR number wouldn't let you. As I said the 100k BR is way too low and would use 2nd 600k with 3rd 300k instead. So, a 2,500,000 BR PB you'd get 4x 2nd rate with 10,000 left to spend on the other 21 free ship spaces. The BIG 10m BR Cartagena 4x first Rates leaves 6m giving the mix or you could just bring 10x Santi's... 

Norfolk

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5 minutes ago, rediii said:

And then you get jumped by 25 1sts and 2nds on OW

feelsbad when the OW fleet is stronger than a pb fleet

yeah and we get back to square one... /o\

 

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6 hours ago, rediii said:

So higher BR cant tag lower BR?

RoEception ... too many rules :)

I like how it is now

You make it to complicated you run into a tons of problems.   

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On 14-9-2017 at 12:29 PM, rediii said:

Didnt read anything here sorry.

Mixed fleets would just show you why most pbs between nations are not in 4th rates anymore. When the OW fleet can be stronger than the PB flert you get a screening problem if you dont have enough screeners in heavy ships

let's brainstorm for a solution then! USE SCREENING FLEETS !! they worked in the past and still do.

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