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Patch 11.0: New ships, Unity 5, Improved clan based conquest, and many other changes.

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Fargo    163
44 minutes ago, Robert said:

The ships, consumables need to be relatively cheap on a PvP server so you are able to get in/back to PVP fast. A game heavily relying on crafting and PvE grind should belong mostly to the PvE server. On a PvP server you should spend most of the time PvP'ing and if that doesn't happen you have to look for the reasons behind it.

Look, as long as devs dont remove economy and crafting from the PvP server, we have to make it work. Dont missinterpret the name, its the common server that contains all type of players. 

Economy relies on a reasonable cost/income balancing, so ships stay valuable and inflation is not crashing the game. Exactly that happened already not long time ago, thats why this change is so ridiculous and not comprehensible. People left the game, instead of happily sinking their meaningless ships. But hey, lets try it again...

This does not mean that we need super expensive ships and PvE grinds all day long. We simply need a reasonable balancing that allows palyers to get the ship they really need, while ships remain valuable. There are also lots of options, just to increase income for low ranks for example, or change cost for certain type of ships. 5th rates could be cheaper while 3rd rates become more expensive, without increasing inflation. PvE grind is there cause they cant figure out how to reward PvP without allowing exploits, and PvE is so boring that it feels like a grind. But just a working economy is not connected with boring grinds. If actual ships were more valuable than those stupid upgrades and books (wtf?!), rewarding PvP wouldnt be a problem btw.

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Quineloe    1,136

@admin that's a solid one with labor hour decrease and resource increase. Does that mean that a level 1 stone quarry will mine 360 per day instead of just 300? Very good reasons to hold ports now.

Edited by Quineloe

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Robert    8
1 hour ago, Fargo said:

Look, as long as devs dont remove economy and crafting from the PvP server, we have to make it work. Dont missinterpret the name, its the common server that contains all type of players. 

Economy relies on a reasonable cost/income balancing, so ships stay valuable and inflation is not crashing the game. Exactly that happened already not long time ago, thats why this change is so ridiculous and not comprehensible. People left the game, instead of happily sinking their meaningless ships. But hey, lets try it again...

This does not mean that we need super expensive ships and PvE grinds all day long. We simply need a reasonable balancing that allows palyers to get the ship they really need, while ships remain valuable. There are also lots of options, just to increase income for low ranks for example, or change cost for certain type of ships. 5th rates could be cheaper while 3rd rates become more expensive, without increasing inflation. PvE grind is there cause they cant figure out how to reward PvP without allowing exploits, and PvE is so boring that it feels like a grind. But just a working economy is not connected with boring grinds. If actual ships were more valuable than those stupid upgrades and books (wtf?!), rewarding PvP wouldnt be a problem btw.

Like i said, I'm a new player in this game, but, I have played quite a few games which gives me a fresh view and a certain perspective. The problem that I see there are 2 type of possible exploits, one regarding the PvP rewards and the other which you did not mention is regarding the multiple alts PvE craft/grind controlling the economy. I believe that 2nd category and griefers are the ones leaving when things are not profitable/enjoyable enough. Not sure why would a PvP player leave when things are cheap and affordable, why do you think that legends could become more popular than this game? This game has a lot of appeal because of OW, Crafting and Economy which is a more realistic approach but in order for the PvP to survive it should be just means to an end. There is also the time factor, most of players do not have the time and just want to jump in and out of action so the key word as you said it's balance and catering to a larger player base.

Edited by Robert

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vazco    245
3 hours ago, admin said:

You are not using facts when making your statements. Port battle bug was fixed the next day. Find a game dev who fixes bugs faster and then we talk. 

I guess the issue here is not the bugfix (which was done very quick), but the feeling of fairness. Personally I don't care about the situation, however already a few times I heard that "bugs happen to everyone, except for Danes, who have developers in their ranks". As such, I think Danes have a role of "Cesar's wife". It's in your interest to make sure they're not favored through various bugs.

Again, personally I don't care.

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Teutonic    1,065
2 hours ago, Quineloe said:

@admin that's a solid one with labor hour decrease and resource increase. Does that mean that a level 1 stone quarry will mine 360 per day instead of just 300? Very good reasons to hold ports now.

I think more people will realize how good the bonuses are in ports you can capture soon. Or at least use them to their advantage.

I would still like to see more bonuses, options, or uses for a captured port, but increasing the resource generation by up to 20% and labor hour cost reduction by up to 20% is pretty crazy for some resources.

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rediii    3,074

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

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Liq    3,271
28 minutes ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

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BallsOfSteel    195
1 hour ago, Liq said:

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

I sunk two vics and assisted in a third last night. got 160K, not 400K

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2 hours ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Why sell useful resources?  Open a building and put them in clan warehouse. 

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Teutonic    1,065

BTw, seems the hotfix did 2 things that I have noticed so far.

1. Made it so that you can Teleport to and from all freetowns

2. All deep water Regional capital ports are now Lineship Port Battles, and all other deep water ports are 4th rate port battles.

I give a big thumbs up for both of these changes.

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Fargo    163
6 hours ago, Robert said:

Not sure why would a PvP player leave when things are cheap and affordable, why do you think that legends could become more popular than this game? This game has a lot of appeal because of OW, Crafting and Economy which is a more realistic approach but in order for the PvP to survive it should be just means to an end. There is also the time factor, most of players do not have the time and just want to jump in and out of action so the key word as you said it's balance and catering to a larger player base.

I dont think there are many pure PvP players in general. Then less general players make it harder to find PvP, what results in even less players, what makes it even harder to find PvP, etc. Even pure PvP players need something to achieve that keeps them motivated. A game like NA legends is going to have stuff to achieve to keep people motivated too. Look at similar games, and how long it takes to unlock new vehicles for example. 

NA wasnt ment to be quick action. I mean you probably could find quick action in NA, if it was a functional game with more players, it would just take a while to get started and combat is different (not always fair) compared with lobby based games. But the goal shouldnt be to please the largest possible playerbase, the goal should be to develop a functional game like it is described in steam. Devs should make clear what this description means, but they still dont even know themself.

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admin    28,125
5 hours ago, Liq said:

Who would have seen that coming ^^ Now Imagine if it actually was +800% as originally said (50k to 400k per vic sunk in pve). Zimbabwe calling, they want some 0's back!

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

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Liq    3,271
1 hour ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Where did I? I said several times that 5th rates were cheap already to craft.. And we have seen before the wipe where players had millions worth of assets that the average player didnt want to risk anything in an equal engagement

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Skully    1,025
1 hour ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Because you turned on the money tap, instead of making the rewards properly zero-sum balanced.

PvE ships are worth 0 (prize) money. It takes a player a cookie click to instantiate those, which must not be rewarded.

  1. Hard work and skills needs to be rewarded;
  2. A ship sunk counts as battle points both the killer and loser (assist gets some battle points too);
  3. Either (or both)
    1. The money faucet itself should spew 500 gold / minute into the prize pool. (This needs to be adjusted later for the rank of players involved.)
    2. A base reward into the prize pool for the mission itself (which we already have of sorts).

 

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Skully    1,025
7 hours ago, rediii said:

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Almost true. No-one is selling because the futures on commodities are flying through the roof. (And we have no futures market to counter this. :P)

We can try and find the fair price, lets start with putting an extra 0 behind every resource price. Or rather lets charge $500 per labor hour. Hopefully I have time today to put up a new definitive price guide.

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Captain Lust    482
42 minutes ago, Liq said:

Where did I? I said several times that 5th rates were cheap already to craft.. And we have seen before the wipe where players had millions worth of assets that the average player didnt want to risk anything in an equal engagement

This is pretty much what i am thinking...  it's not that ships are too expensive. People just like to blame "expensive ships" for their fear of losing as an excuse. Now it seems we are back to where ships have barely any value ( the only thing still giving them some small value is the combat mark cost ) with the only somewhat expensive ships being 1-3 rates, Wasa and Hermione because they cost a bunch of marks... maybe this is better but it definitely takes some of the excitement out of PvP, if people burn through ships like it doesn't matter.

Edited by Captain Lust

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Quineloe    1,136
4 hours ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

The main issue remains that you can fight a PVP fight for an hour and then you leave and get "Battle Report: No rewards". Whether you lose your ship or not. You broke the best feature of your game for no reason.

This is why so few people PVP today. Why do all for nothing.

Edited by Quineloe

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mikawa    320

@admin, can you please explain the reward mechanic atm? I observed that I got fewer rewards in a battle where AI fleet joined together with me against LGV (maybe call it bad tag) as if I would have fought alone (Though I got the kill). This reward mechanic is the heart of every battle, so I ask you to explain how it works in depth ...

Thx in advance.

Edited by mikawa
@ added

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Quineloe    1,136
41 minutes ago, mikawa said:

@admin, can you please explain the reward mechanic atm? I observed that I got fewer rewards in a battle where AI fleet joined together with me against LGV (maybe call it bad tag) as if I would have fought alone (Though I got the kill). This reward mechanic is the heart of every battle, so I ask you to explain how it works in depth ...

Thx in advance.

easy, a ship is worth a set amount of exp, gold and CMs based on its BR. You deal 30% damage to it, you get 30% of that. You deal 100% of that, you get all of it. kill/assist is purely cosmetic. Your 70% kill with a few AI ships also in the battle is worth less than your 100% kill all by yourself.

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mikawa    320
2 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

easy, a ship is worth a set amount of exp, gold and CMs based on its BR. You deal 30% damage to it, you get 30% of that. You deal 100% of that, you get all of it. kill/assist is purely cosmetic. Your 70% kill with a few AI ships also in the battle is worth less than your 100% kill all by yourself.

That is a very important information, I've never read anything about this before. Thx for pointing that out.

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Borch    411
3 hours ago, Liq said:

Where did I? I said several times that 5th rates were cheap already to craft.. And we have seen before the wipe where players had millions worth of assets that the average player didnt want to risk anything in an equal engagement

There is no mechanic or game feature that would ever encourage average player to risk in equal engagement in any game ever as in real life.

32 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

The main issue remains that you can fight a PVP fight for an hour and then you leave and get "Battle Report: No rewards". Whether you lose your ship or not. You broke the best feature of your game for no reason.

This is why so few people PVP today. Why do all for nothing.

Yes, in the name of fighting alts the game is creating weird mechanics that wont hurt alt players much but hurts a lot normally playing people. It's time to change this and increase pvp mod drop rate plus start awarding exp for damage in case of ship upgrade slots.

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Rigge1988    20
5 hours ago, admin said:

First you ask us to make players fear about ships less by increasing rewards. Now you post snarky remarks about virtual zeroes nobody cares about.
I hope your feedback in legends is more useful and less conflicting

Admin... You must understand that the correct approach to cheaper ships would be to dump the prices on ships and crafting materials from which you craft ships.

As of now, the ships are not cheaper they will just follow the inflation curve. What cost 200k last sunday will cost 700k today.

This is because the networth of gold was drastically decreased by increasing rewards.

The only ships that got cheaper to purchase are the ones sold by NPC. Including admirality shop (this was needed, thank you)

 

Decreasing rewards again would most likely prolong  the economic turbulence we currently experience. It doesn't matter if the gold is worth this much or that much. Whatever we have right now will stabilize and eventually set where we were an hour before patch. Just a few more zeroes and higher values.

So that was economy 1o1. Now what good comes with a little inflation? Say for example you had an item worth 1.08 gold. Thats not 1 gold or 2 gold. With  the help of inflations its now 108 gold straight away. :P

 

I was not the one who yelled the loudest about rewards.

Sincerely

 

 

Edited by Rigge1988

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Aegir    1,673
11 hours ago, rediii said:

Eco is broken.

 

Noone sells ressources/materials anymore because gold isn't worth anything so we cant build ships anymore alone

Exact same problem as the last time we had this type of hyper-inflation. They never goddamn learn, and good bye any chances of ever testing eco without yet another full wipe now.

Didn't even get to test much of an eco anyways since they opted for lots of unrelated trading goods instead of something akin to a player-run economy.

Hello 2016.

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admin    28,125
3 hours ago, Skully said:

Because you turned on the money tap, instead of making the rewards properly zero-sum balanced.

Everybody wants realistic economy and zero sum balanced rewards, but nobody plays those games. 
Realistic economy means 1% are rich, everyone else has a job. We found that most players don't  want a job in a game, they just want progress at their own pace and it means money should not be a problem for everyone. 

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