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Cmdr RideZ

Quality Levels

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Cmdr RideZ    647

As new patch is coming soon, all that I write might be obsolete, but...

 

At some point we had a talk that everyone wants to sail exceptional ship, have exceptional upgrades, none wants to use greens or blues, etc.  Players are ready to invest more time to directly get exceptional than buy Master Crafted.

I think we forgot one pretty important thing here.  Many of us had already plenty of money to buy and craft what we wanted.  What if we had been just starting to play the game, would we have 10 million to buy exceptional Marines?  500k to buy Exceptional Hammocks for our Basic Cutter?

Lesser qualities were leveling gear, just like in every mmorpg.  Blue Marines were really good already and price was maybe 1% from Gold Marines.

Now you either have an upgrade or you dont.  So gear difference between new players, casuals, casual+, HC and the rest is way bigger than it was when we actually had leveling gear -> Quality levels.

I believe quality levels were ok, it is just that game had reach the point where most were already able to buy exceptional ones.  To be honest, I actually knew plenty of people who were not able to exceptionally upgrade their ship.  Some/Most may have had enough money to craft/buy regulars, but permanents were too big investment for many.

Quality system for upgrades was probably better than the current system.

 

When crafting level 50 was needed to craft exceptional upgrades, I think crafting was in better balance, it had higher impact, reasons to have it.

Combat oriented players, who were still leveling their rank, they were able to buy exceptional upgrades eventually.  If they collected materials, often crafters did not ask that much and clan crafters asked nothing.

Lesser quality upgrades were often sold by players, you got those as a reward from mission, sometimes.  These were cheap and players who could not afford exceptionals bought these.

 

Someone has good reasons why the old system was not better than the one we have now?

If there are none, I am going to recommend that we return quality system for upgrades.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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Peter Goldman    1,271

Quality system for upgrades was bad, I never liked it and I like the current system, but I see some issues:

  1. Marines - we should be able to have a slider and decide how many we want. I want to customize if I want 5 marines on my ship, 10 or 500. Also, I don't like the fact that marines are needed as a skill book and not by default (of course you could have set them at 0 if you prefer). 
  2. Skill Books divided by rates are not balanced. Smaller ships get bigger bonuses while bigger ships get smaller bonuses.

1. Charismatic Boatswain for bigger ships should give better bonuses than smaller ships. On small ships crew moves fast enough not to even use this mod at all, but it would be very helpful on 1-3 rates and even 4-5 rates but as the bonus decreases with higher rates, this book is totally useless. We could have merged all 6-7/4-5/1-3 onto one book for all rates (just like Rum Rations) and let's say it makes Crew Transfer: +10 or +15. Then it will be way better and players will actually start to use it rather than selling all of it to ports...

2. Extra Hammocks - Very often we end up with a situation that smaller ships get way more crew bonus (not % but a fixed number) than bigger ships. For example, Niagara, Mercury or Heavy Rattlesnake get more bonus crew than Cerberus, Renomee, Surprise which I find ridiculous. Also, I find it stupid that extra hammocks reduce morale by a lot! That's silly. More crew = more morale. (Same issue goes to marines btw)

3. Boarding Ladders effect is worse on bigger ships (???)

4, Grenades on small ships give 50% bonus and on bigger just 10% and 5% (LMAO)

5. Muskets and Pistols on small ships are 50%, on 4-5 is 25% and on big ships it is 10% (thus, it becomes 100% useless for big ships).

 

Many, many other skill books. The 6-7 / 4-5 / 1-3 is totally imbalanced and needs a total overhaul. I would even risk saying that we shouldn't have it divided by rates.

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Captain Lust    482
37 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

1. Charismatic Boatswain for bigger ships should give better bonuses than smaller ships. On small ships crew moves fast enough not to even use this mod at all, but it would be very helpful on 1-3 rates and even 4-5 rates but as the bonus decreases with higher rates, this book is totally useless. We could have merged all 6-7/4-5/1-3 onto one book for all rates (just like Rum Rations) and let's say it makes Crew Transfer: +10 or +15. Then it will be way better and players will actually start to use it rather than selling all of it to ports...

2. Extra Hammocks - Very often we end up with a situation that smaller ships get way more crew bonus (not % but a fixed number) than bigger ships. For example, Niagara, Mercury or Heavy Rattlesnake get more bonus crew than Cerberus, Renomee, Surprise which I find ridiculous. Also, I find it stupid that extra hammocks reduce morale by a lot! That's silly. More crew = more morale. (Same issue goes to marines btw)

3. Boarding Ladders effect is worse on bigger ships (???)

4, Grenades on small ships give 50% bonus and on bigger just 10% and 5% (LMAO)

5. Muskets and Pistols on small ships are 50%, on 4-5 is 25% and on big ships it is 10% (thus, it becomes 100% useless for big ships).

 

Many, many other skill books. The 6-7 / 4-5 / 1-3 is totally imbalanced and needs a total overhaul. I would even risk saying that we shouldn't have it divided by rates.

Agreed mostly. Now of course realism always should come second behind balance but still many seem unreasonable... maybe some upgrades like muskets and pistols become too strong with 50% on big ships? I don't know, haven't used them too much. With borading ladders and boatswain i never bothered at all to be honest... as far as i understood the boarding ladders give you less penalty for attacking a ship with different deck height, which is nice and all but is it worth a slot? It only comes into play when boarding and only when you board a much bigger or smaller ship. Boatswain i wouldn't ever pick up either but i agree with you it should be way better on big ships since thats the only place where they matter. Overall i think not only the rated upgrades are poorly balanced but all upgrades in general. 

With all this being said i like how the 6-7 get quite significant % bonuses, making it easier for them to compete with 4-5 rates even tho it may or may not be completely balanced for some upgrades. It should be noted that im biased here, because i enjoy the smaller ships a great deal but only against other 6-7 who have access to the same books ( against skilled frigate captains i found 6-7 rates to be rather ineffective, mainly due to demasting ).

TL;DR: I agree with upgrades being poorly balanced but don't mind 6-7 rates getting an advantage that makes them more competitive with 4-5 rathes even tho it is not logical or realistic but only balance.

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Cmdr RideZ    647

Did I follow this correctly.

You say you did not like the quality system and then you speak about balance?

What are the reason why you did not like the quality system?  Why the current system is better?

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Teutonic    1,055

Because the quality syatem had a flaw. The flaw was clearly shown that if people didn't have the best quality, they didn't sail or they didn't fight until they did, and the higher quality pretty much always won against an inferior quality.

I would rather balance modules and knowledge slots as they are than try and create more layers of imbalance and imperfection.

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Cmdr RideZ    647
37 minutes ago, Teutonic said:

Because the quality syatem had a flaw. The flaw was clearly shown that if people didn't have the best quality, they didn't sail or they didn't fight until they did, and the higher quality pretty much always won against an inferior quality.

I would rather balance modules and knowledge slots as they are than try and create more layers of imbalance and imperfection.

You bought Naval Action and you do not have money for upgrades.

What were you using when we had quality system and what would you be using in the current system?

In which system this new player would be at greater disadvantage?

...

Upgrades and knowledge should be balanced as well.

Edited by Cmdr RideZ

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