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Invisibility poll

Invisibility poll  

119 members have voted

  1. 1. Please provide your vote on invisibility and speed boost after battle

    • Keep as it is
      70
    • Reduce by 50%
      20
    • Remove completely
      29


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admin    28,125

Captains

Due to addition of safe zones and reinforcement fleets around capitals and due to changed status of many free towns lets discuss invisibility and speed boost.

Invisibility was implemented to reduce revenge fleets. In the new design hunting around enemy capitals will be very hard.
Cities that will be controlled by clans should be protected by their own player driven defence fleets that should have a chance to destroy the potential harassers. As a result we see no benefits in keeping invisibility as they allow a very safe escape option limiting pvp opportunities. 

Discuss.

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Teutonic    1,065

My suggestion - At most, reduce it by 50%, but not the whole thing. That being said, I would prefer it stay the way it is.

I constantly find myself loading up in the open world after a battle with 30-50% of the invisibility already gone anyway so the 30 second invisible timer ends up being more like 10-20 seconds for me. Maybe that's just a bad computer.

What if instead of invisibility, you had a longer timer for invulnerability, so that enemies can see you, but they cannot engage you for a longer period of time?

Edited by Teutonic

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rediii    3,074

Changes you decide there not only affect hunting players. It affects also portbattles.

A lost portbattle as attacker can easily mean that you lose a big part of the fleet if you have nothing.

Even with invisibility and speedboost, because attackerships are faced towards the port and defenderships are faced to the attackers it means that defenders can force attackers to a second battle most of the time tho.

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Macjimm    477

I thought the invisibility and speed boost was the alternative to allowing players to log off after they had escaped a battle.

It would help those players who wanted to avoid being dragged into repeated battles.  

Personally I would prefer to be able to quit the game after I have escaped and simply remove invisibility and speed boost.  Logging off is preferred to teleporting away from conflict.

But there should be some other alternative for players rather than; 1) being forced into endless battles each time they escape or 2) allowing the enemy to destroy their ship.

I have not voted in the poll because it needs a 4th button.

4) remove completely and add option to log out of game after a successful escape.

Edited by Macjimm

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Captain Lust    482
16 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains

Due to addition of safe zones and reinforcement fleets around capitals and due to changed status of many free towns lets discuss invisibility and speed boost.

Invisibility was implemented to reduce revenge fleets. In the new design hunting around enemy capitals will be very hard.
Cities that will be controlled by clans should be protected by their own player driven defence fleets that should have a chance to destroy the potential harassers. As a result we see no benefits in keeping invisibility as they allow a very safe escape option limiting pvp opportunities. 

Discuss.

With the new safe zones there is no reason to remove / nerf the invisibility or promote revenge fleets in any other way in my opinion and im glad the poll reflects that.

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Skully    1,025
8 minutes ago, Macjimm said:

I thought the invisibility and speed boost was the alternative to allowing players to log off after they had escaped a battle.

That is correct. http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22512-why-do-we-have-invisibility-after-battle/

I don't know why the timer was changed though.

You should be able to safely log-off after a battle, but not if you have captured a ship.

Does invisibility and speed boost help the casual? Yes, if he fights another casual. Against a legend, no chance.

In fact, invisibility and speed boost is a boon for any ganker.

I have never needed invisibility and/or speed boost to make a getaway.

But if you guys want to give it to me, please do so. Just don't yammer when out of nowhere a fast ship decloaks and you find yourself the victim of a ganking fleet.

On 8/2/2016 at 2:02 PM, Skully said:

Invisibility. Use this to direct the gank fleet invisibly onto the victim. Perfect.

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Aegir    1,673

Step by step, not all-or-nothing.

Let's try 50% first.

A separate post-PB timer, perhaps the one we've already got or even a bit longer, would be nice. At the moment the risk of losing your entire fleet just because PB losses weakened it just  to get killed completely during the OW escape stifles RvR.

Edited by Aegir

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Fargo    163
34 minutes ago, admin said:

Captains

Due to addition of safe zones and reinforcement fleets around capitals and due to changed status of many free towns lets discuss invisibility and speed boost.

Invisibility was implemented to reduce revenge fleets. In the new design hunting around enemy capitals will be very hard.
Cities that will be controlled by clans should be protected by their own player driven defence fleets that should have a chance to destroy the potential harassers. As a result we see no benefits in keeping invisibility as they allow a very safe escape option limiting pvp opportunities. 

Discuss.

Safe zones dont make any sense. What about reducing the mission jump timer and not spawning enemies joining right on top of you? What about tweaking stuff that is currently promoting ganking so heavily? Youre again not fixing the cause of the problem.

Regarding invisibility, i think as long as its exploitable for surprise attacks, i would prefer teleport to closest friendly/neutral port. If thats no option speedboost should be removed atleast.

But something has to deny revenge fleets. Its not realistic and 90% gameplay is stupid and boring for both sides. Thinking that this is a PvP opportunity is shortminded. Less people are going to risk ships in enemy waters when its likely to loose a ship to revenge ganks, and when a PvP session in general requires more time. Less people would play in general when PvP becomes more stupid.

Adding safe zones and allowing revenge ganks again would equal two steps backwards aiming for a plausible game.

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Skully    1,025
18 minutes ago, Fargo said:

i would prefer teleport to closest friendly/neutral port.

Free ticket home for any ganker. Perfect. :P

18 minutes ago, Fargo said:

risk ships in enemy waters

On 9/11/2016 at 9:36 AM, Skully said:

PS. We call sailing alone to Capitals, suicide missions. :D

It's called enemy waters for a reason, because you are not in command of the sea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_of_the_sea

On 9/8/2016 at 10:09 PM, Skully said:

At the end of the battle we simply move all remaining ships forward in time to the present OW at the location they started. Simply to prevent abusing sailing through battle instances.

The current old mechanic has no true exploits. If you control the waters, you are safe. If not, you lose.

How about I repeat another suggestion often offered: "Sail with friends".

On 9/8/2016 at 10:09 PM, Skully said:

I think the next new officer perk should be "Organize" or "Strategy", because "Social" wasn't enough.

Edited by Skully
old mechanic, no invis or speed

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Demsity    113

If reduced or removed, a system needs to be implemented to prevent forever tagging. Forever tagging is when a group of player tag you over and over again after escpaing battles, leading to chases taking hours upon hours.

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EliteDelta    320

The system is fine as it is.

 A well organized revenge fleet (a clan on TS) still has a good chance of catching and killing an enemy, even when the enemy has the invisibility and speed boost. My clan has been able to do it many times in our home waters. 

 

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Serk    243
19 minutes ago, Demsity said:

If reduced or removed, a system needs to be implemented to prevent forever tagging. Forever tagging is when a group of player tag you over and over again after escpaing battles, leading to chases taking hours upon hours.

This is the main culprit IMO. Being hostage to the game must be avoided at all cost, so either leave it as it is, or add the option to quit the game immediately after a battle. 

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Fargo    163
10 minutes ago, Skully said:

Free ticket home for any ganker. Perfect. :P

Exactly. Its enough time needed to sail there, find a fight, and fight a single battle for up to 2 hours.

If youre complaining about ganking, help fixing the real issues that are promoting gank tactics. Fixing ganking with counterganking is a very stupid idea. Making use of strenght advantages is no ganking btw, but a valid tactic.

13 minutes ago, Skully said:

It's called enemy waters for a reason, because you are not in command of the sea.

If your whole nation is sitting in the capital, why should there be any magic risk to hunt in this waters.

What we need is possibilities to intercept enemies in friendly waters. Its near impossible with current mechanics, even if you surrounded the enemy.

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Liq    3,271

So tell me mr skully, where do you expect players to meet for pvp if not in national waters.

Ganking is part of pretty much any ow mmo. But most of them dont know the revenge squad phenomena cause thex dont have 2 dimensions. Instanced battles and therefore 2 travelling speeds bring the need to make a workaround .

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Skully    1,025
21 minutes ago, Fargo said:

Exactly. Its enough time needed to sail there, find a fight, and fight a single battle for up to 2 hours.

If youre complaining about ganking, help fixing the real issues that are promoting gank tactics. Fixing ganking with counterganking is a very stupid idea. Making use of strenght advantages is no ganking btw, but a valid tactic.

If your whole nation is sitting in the capital, why should there be any magic risk to hunt in this waters.

What we need is possibilities to intercept enemies in friendly waters. Its near impossible with current mechanics, even if you surrounded the enemy.

You wish to intercept enemies in friendly waters by giving them a free ticket home?

Do you see the contradiction, or is it just me?

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Skully    1,025
4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

So tell me mr skully, where do you expect players to meet for pvp if not in national waters.

I believe we met before.

On 6/20/2016 at 2:40 PM, Liquicity said:

Hehe yeah.. Guess that was me ^^

Can't recall us having invisibility and/or speed boost back then? Can you?

Edited by Skully

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What about this?

On 14.6.2017 at 1:34 PM, rediii said:

@admin

So we actually found a compromise between the "safe the ganked" and "i just wanna pvp without revengefleets"

1. Expand greenzone and change battle join timer to 10 minutes in greenzone. 
- EG; I attack someone in Swedish Capitals Greenzone. Noone can join on my side but Swedes can join for 10 minutes. Plenty of time for "Swedish Coastguard" to help their friend. 
2. Outside of Greenzones 2 minute timer and Signalling Perk (Defender can have up to 1.5 BR). Signalling Perk keeps battle open for 10 minutes. 
3. you can TP to port as long as

  • You are the defender
  • You have no fleetships
  • It was not a outlaw battle
  • It was not a pve mission

Requirement for 3. is that battlescreen returns. I would propose you have 2 minute in battlescreen to decide if you want to teleport or not. You should be able to sink your fleet if you need to. You can not teleport your fleet to a outpost

 

So in case of a gank the attacker can still face a revengefleet. But if he escapes the revengefleet once he can teleport to next freeport. This also removes the griefingpotential of repeating tagging of ships

 

Does anyone spot something exploitable?

Did I forget something?

Related Topic:

 

I still like a battlescreen with the option to logout if you were the defender. That means you can go offline after successfully escaping a defense battle.

Edited by Aegon Targaryen

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Borch    411

Either casuals or pvp elites got to accept the fact that from time to time you can be ganked. This is a game and sometimes you have to loose, especially playing in hostile waters. Invisibility and super boost is bad in my opinion.

Different matter though is the fact that this game currently can keep you in front of screen forever without possibility to log off. Sometimes it's not wven worth searching for pvp as you cant be sure if you'll be able to stop playing without loosing your hard earned assets just by giving them for free. Before you solve that issue I'm not casting my voice.

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Skully    1,025
7 minutes ago, Aegon Targaryen said:

3. you can TP to port as long as

  • You are the defender
  • You have no fleetships
  • It was not a outlaw battle
  • It was not a pve mission

Did someone say "alt"? Ah no, the custom mantra on global/nation chat is "spy!". :D

I would say we need log-off, anything else abusable.

I gave it a similar twirl in the past as well:

Any form of BR rule gives me a headache. (Abuse and counter-abuse until I get blamed, no matter what. :P)9D078944F008D3B6F35BCDBC8C87E7C4066678D0

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Skully    1,025

Let me toss up something else, which I completely forgot to bring forth again:

TL;DR

Quote

Ships will no longer magically appear on Open World, but turn up through the fog. Yes, it might be extremely close, but then again you sailed into a fog bank. You have been warned that you are taking a potential risk.

Should I resurrect that one?

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Liq    3,271
4 minutes ago, Skully said:

Can't recall us having invisibility and/or speed boost back then? Can you?

Huh? Thats a pretty old occasion. We didnt have either but we did have battlescreen which also somewhat did the job of preventing silly revenge fleets.

13 minutes ago, Borch said:

Either casuals or pvp elites got to accept the fact that from time to time you can be ganked. This is a game and sometimes you have to loose,

Exactly. Sometimes you get caught off guard because an enemy was IN RANGE. your revenge fleet mates most lf the time are NOT in range (3ish minutes), why should they be able to get to a target they never would have gotten to? Ganking sucks and happens to everyone, but that doesnt mean there should be a free revenge mechanic simply because we cant run OW and battles in the same speed instances.

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Quineloe    1,136

Remove the whole thing and retain the speed boost.

 

Alternatively, do not allow battle joining and attacking for 5 minutes after invis drops.

Ships jumping other ships right after they lose invisibility is klingon bird of prey ganking. Not good.

Edited by Quineloe

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Skully    1,025
6 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

We didnt have either but we did have battlescreen which also somewhat did the job of preventing silly revenge fleets.

Exactly and my position on these so called revenge fleets hasn't changed a bit.

On 9/8/2016 at 10:09 PM, Skully said:

Both a ganking trap and a revenge fleet are a waste of assets. You have committed them to an action and no longer hold initiative.

You are counting on that something might show up, instead of asserting that the enemy has committed his assets and is in fact there.

Why do you think we have low cost scouts running around?

 

7 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Ganking sucks and happens to everyone, but that doesnt mean there should be a free revenge mechanic simply because we cant run OW and battles in the same speed instances.

I fully agree and you can easily chain @admin in this as well.

Quote

Our position is and was always this: ganking has to be reduced by design.

To which @admin has finally said:

On 8/14/2017 at 11:17 AM, admin said:

Data/ratings/reviews show that there is a significant group who DO NOT enjoy ganking, uneven battles, crafting, trading, ow sailing, vast worlds. They currently are forced to play using mechanics they don't want resulting in them leaving unhappy. They do not overlap. Those who enjoy hunting, trading, exploring won't like the changes needed to keep the group mentioned above in the game. 

Back to the topic,

if you want an anti-revenge mechanic, it must not be a ganker boon. Invisibility + speed boost do not pass the mark.

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Quineloe    1,136
33 minutes ago, Skully said:

Did someone say "alt"? Ah no, the custom mantra on global/nation chat is "spy!". :D

I would say we need log-off, anything else abusable.

I gave it a similar twirl in the past as well:

Any form of BR rule gives me a headache. (Abuse and counter-abuse until I get blamed, no matter what. :P)9D078944F008D3B6F35BCDBC8C87E7C4066678D0

 

 

Jeez KIN members not aware it's the LEFT side of tab that started the battle? Was even his own clan mate.

Edited by Quineloe

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