Invisibility poll

[Captain Lust]

1 minute ago, Rebrall said:

I'm still confused as to why it needs changed? 

Please ask the people voting for its removel, i really really would like to know aswell...

[Skully]

2 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Also, weren't you constantly complaining about gankers and forming a ganking heaven? Well then, well done on taking out a captain-rank with probably all his assets

Where did I complain about gankers and forming a ganking heaven?

If you think this is the worst I have done to prove broken mechanics, then you may want to think again.

Hence now a rookie can't set sail in any big ship as protection for himself.

Something definitely needs fixing here, but it must be done right or not at all. Again,  invisibility + speed boost change nothing with regards to revenge fleets, it is a boon for gankers. Hence it needs to go where it belongs, in the trashcan.

(The best part is that the more I try to convince folks, the more they vote for having invisibility + speed boost. )

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Skully said:

 invisibility + speed boost change nothing with regards to revenge fleets, it is a boon for gankers. Hence it needs to go where it belongs, in the trashcan.

well sure it did change revenge fleets? It basically removed them completely?

I'm trying very hard to understand your points, but I simply cant, it doesn't make any sense at all to me. Ganking is what defines an OW MMO; such a game barely ever has any equalish ow pvp. I agree we need some sort of rookie protection, but at some point, if you're sailing a ship alone without any reinforcements  in Range, it's basically your fault to get sunk, it might be harsh but such is life.

it feels like we're talking at cross-purposes, probably because we have different expectations from the game.

[Skully]

3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

I'm trying very hard to understand your points, but I simply cant, it doesn't make any sense at all to me. Ganking is what defines an OW MMO; such a game barely ever has any equalish ow pvp. I agree we need some sort of rookie protection, but at some point, if you're sailing a ship alone without any reinforcements  in Range, it's basically your fault to get sunk, it might be harsh but such is life.

I fully agree in this part.

3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

well sure it did change revenge fleets? It basically removed them completely?

No it didn't. As I showed I can still easily execute a revenge fleet tactic. And now at the same easily execute a getaway (in enemy waters). Furthermore I can use it to execute the invisibility gank. So we took zero steps forward and two steps back.

[Liq]

1 minute ago, Skully said:

No it didn't. As I showed I can still easily execute a revenge fleet tactic. And now at the same easily execute a getaway (in enemy waters). Furthermore I can use it to execute the invisibility gank. So we took zero steps forward and two steps back.

now add a 3-5min "you cannot attack" timer (can still be attacked) after leaving a battle; in your scenario, the traders brig would have had the possibility to sail off into an odd direction (because of the speed boost and invisbility), and then log off (2 min logoff timer), so cannot be attacked by you again, since you have just left the battle aswell and have the "you cannot attack timer".

We were saying this, that the "you cannot attack timer", needs to be drastically increased after leaving a battle, since day 1 when invis was added. But I haven't seen a response from admin so far.

[Skully]

4 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

the traders brig would have had the possibility to sail off into an odd direction (because of the speed boost and invisbility), and then log off (2 min logoff timer)

Which in turn can also be abused.

Picture the moment of decision:

1. Continue playing
2. Log-off

What information does a player really need to make that decision?

Nothing from the game, everything from RL.

Giving him the composition of enemy assets on the OW for free directly influences this decision. So the player will not show true intent.

Rather a simple log-off at battle screen. (Maybe not with captured ships, but that is a sliding scale.)

Anybody willing to waste time sitting at a point hoping for action, can do just that. That's their decision to make. "My mom always said NA life was like a sandbox of ships. You never know what you're gonna get." 

(OW is nothing more than an elaborate queuing mechanism, ships can come from anywhere including battle instances. ...Okay, a bit more then...)

[Rebrall]

Why can't we have it this way,

 

if a player in a warship is attacked in there own county the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

remove the F11 cords I detest them so much, 

 

remove the ability to to jump into pve missions and give people super speed after the mission is complete no invisibility though gives them a chance to run but still be chased 

 

if you are attacked outside of the county  keep the same rules we have now maybe increase the timer of the not able to be attacked a little maybe 30 seconds and well I'm sorry if you don't have an escort then it's on your own head it's a pvp server not pve bit harsh I'm sorry but sometimes you got to be cruel to be kind 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Rebrall

[Bach]

6 hours ago, Skully said:

<snip>

First off, you state you using a third party (essentially GPS) system to track allies/targets and coordinate your ganks like modern fast patrol craft. That not exactly a fair test of the mechanics but we'll go with it.

If the guy had his smuggler flag on, was travelling in just two trader brigs and you were next to Mantua then  all he had to do was use the invis+speed+invul timer and go into Mantau.

Congratulations you caught someone that clearly wasn't thinking ahead.

There is nothing wrong with the new set up. It deters gank fleets but doesn't 100% prevent them. It also gives the lone runner a chance. At least a better chance then he had before.

Edited September 7, 2017 by Bach

[Skully]

6 hours ago, Rebrall said:

if a player in a warship is attacked in there own county the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

Picture a battle of 3 Pirates vs 1 Brit, with 3 more Pirates sitting outside eyeballing you. Would you jump in to help?

3 hours ago, Bach said:

First off, you state you using a third party (essentially GPS) system to track allies/targets and coordinate your ganks like modern fast patrol craft. That not exactly a fair test of the mechanics but we'll go with it.

Fair or not isn't the question. The mechanic is there/possible, so it needs to be tested as such.

And yes, OW is very much a modern fast patrol craft game. Whether we like it or not.

3 hours ago, Bach said:

If the guy had his smuggler flag on, was travelling in just two trader brigs and you were next to Mantua then  all he had to do was use the invis+speed+invul timer and go into Mantau.

Objection, speculation. Jury needs to disregard this statement. 

I can show a deeper analysis of the circumstances and other outside influences, but I'm willing to bet ChuCoMan will agree that he had no chance of making it to Mantau. His only option was Corrientes, which was blocked.

3 hours ago, Bach said:

Congratulations you caught someone that clearly wasn't thinking ahead.

Thank you and from what it appears I will catch many more. 

3 hours ago, Bach said:

There is nothing wrong with the new set up. It deters gank fleets but doesn't 100% prevent them. It also gives the lone runner a chance. At least a better chance then he had before.

As long as you keep thinking in terms of a lone hunter (casual) vs a ganker fleet (casual), then yes the balance is likely equal.

As soon as you introduce imbalance it simply falls apart, for example the lone hunter calls in a revenge fleet to augment his already substantial power of invisibility + speed boost.

9 hours ago, Skully said:

When all of a sudden, out of the blue, a British Surprise pulled up beside him.

As for a CONCORD fleet, maybe ask @Sir Texas Sir what he thinks of the difficulty to circumvent 6 1st rates.

A legend can only come down,

• when it meets another legend; http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/21551-the-skully-gazette-july-6/
• through trickery; http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22532-the-smoke-cast-by-man/
• or when other legends organize it; http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/16395-pvp1-september-10th-1716-the-demise-of-fuzzyhead-the-bearded/

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

54 minutes ago, Skully said:

As for a CONCORD fleet, maybe ask @Sir Texas Sir what he thinks of the difficulty to circumvent 6 1st rates.

 

Awwww is that me taking the baby ducklings for a walk?   They where doing so good with a straight line before I decided to bring them back to ya'll.   

 

As for the after battle thing I have no problem with the invisibility part as it gives folks fair chance of an escape.  My issue is the warp speed that you get.   If you remove that and keep the timer for invisibility I think it would be fine.  The warp speed has been used more by gankers and attackers than it has by the guy running right now and that isn't the reason it was meant for.   So I piked the 50% option since there was none to just remove the warp speed part.  @admin Your poll really should of had an option to remove the warp speed but keep the invisibility as is.

Why we are on this subject another thing we should poll and hopefully remove as the times have changed is the annoying laser accuracy of the stern guns.  It's allows one guy in a Surprise to keep other ships at bay when he hits ever one of his chain shots when a Trinc might miss half his.  I seen them take down sails on several ships about the same speed but no one could hit him other than with ball to keep him in battle and that was inaccurate as crap doing so.  We need to make the Stern and bow guns on par with each other.  Drop the super laser accuracy but maybe make them both a tab bit more accurate than the side guns.

[balz]

OK so everyone hates being ganked especial when your outnumbered and the tag and re tag is a extremely painful process so i'm proposing there be an option for the poor bastard being

ganked that if he manages to get away he can have the option to teleport to nearest port to give him that head start because lets face it if u have to log off a game to get away from a battle

that's not promoting people to keep playing this game and knowing that u can get away only to get re-tagged time and time again is just frustrating as well as who ever else is waiting for

you.... But if your the ganker u shouldn't have the option to teleport this should also give the local forces a chance to get to the action and mach/fend off the gankers

[Sir Texas Sir]

3 minutes ago, balz said:

OK so everyone hates being ganked especial when your outnumbered and the tag and re tag is a extremely painful process so i'm proposing there be an option for the poor bastard being

ganked that if he manages to get away he can have the option to teleport to nearest port to give him that head start because lets face it if u have to log off a game to get away from a battle

that's not promoting people to keep playing this game and knowing that u can get away only to get re-tagged time and time again is just frustrating as well as who ever else is waiting for

you.... But if your the ganker u shouldn't have the option to teleport this should also give the local forces a chance to get to the action and mach/fend off the gankers

I do not want telport to port to return or the battle screen.  To many folks will capture ships and than prot back to safety instead of takeing the time to get that ship back.  We should have the option to capture our ships back if they are a long way from home.  That and the fact traders will tag ships and than telport to get around block-aids (and war ships).   That isn't exactly fair play for all.  

 

[Rebrall]

2 hours ago, Skully said:

Picture a battle of 3 Pirates vs 1 Brit, with 3 more Pirates sitting outside eyeballing you. Would you jump in to help?

 

 

i said in your own county fyi  

 

and your asking the wrong crazy person btw i jumped into a fight at mort town for sir drop bear who was facing 9 v 1 so yes i would jump in 

[Skully]

53 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

i said in your own county fyi  

My own county or your own county? This game is so confusing sometimes. 

( https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/851596176125359945/8E42D675D31149BF2D066357BCA61EB3E8340063/ )

Edited September 7, 2017 by Skully

[Rebrall]

1 hour ago, Skully said:

My own county or your own county? This game is so confusing sometimes. 

( https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/851596176125359945/8E42D675D31149BF2D066357BCA61EB3E8340063/ )

lol so if you (Dains) jump a GB player in Surrey for example:

if a player (GB) in a warship is attacked in there own county (GB county) the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player(GB) is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker (Dains)  keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

make more sense? 

[Skully]

14 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

lol so if you (Dains) jump a GB player in Surrey for example:

if a player (GB) in a warship is attacked in there own county (GB county) the battle stays open for ever or as long as there is live ships within the instance,

if the player(GB) is in a trader the same from above applies but gets AI support also.

the attacker (Dains)  keeps the same mechanics we have now if he wins 

 

make more sense? 

It makes perfect sense.

Nobody will come out to save a casual and we need @Sir Texas Sir to keep the ducklings busy. 

Just as it is now or was in the past. With or without invisibility.

[Fargo]

14 hours ago, Borch said:

Like I said, this works both ways and it's hard if not impossible to find mechanic in game that suits everyone.

Maybe i dont exactly understand what you mean. What exactly is your argument to allow revenge ganks?

In general the goal is not to please everyone or a majority, the goal is simply to develop a good (realistic) game. No matter how many people would like to revenge gank and to capture their ships back, it wont change anything. Its bad for the game, fact.

 

Sorry for offtopic, but Its just very inefficient to discuss such basic questions that should be beyond dispute. Battle entry has to be restricted, and for the same reason revenge fleets have to be denied. And btw., it would make even less sense to allow revenge fleets while battles are still closing, instead of just keeping battle entries open.

[Busterbloodvessel]

13 hours ago, Bach said:

First off, you state you (Skully) using a third party (essentially GPS) system to track allies/targets and coordinate your ganks like modern fast patrol craft. That not exactly a fair test of the mechanics but we'll go with it.

@admin

The GPS tracker exploit sounds like a serious hacker game spoiler. If it is true, can something be done to defeat this such as not sending ship position and ID data to the client until the contact ship is in render range?

 

Buster (swinging swords at ghosts)

[Skully]

18 minutes ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

@admin

The GPS tracker exploit sounds like a serious hacker game spoiler. If it is true, can something be done to defeat this such as not sending ship position and ID data to the client until the contact ship is in render range?

 

Buster (swinging swords at ghosts)

That is already the case.

We are not talking about GPS tracking other ships, we are continuously on the lookout for such hacks. 

You can test this for yourself with a teammate. Let him sail on an angle slight away from you. As he hits the horizon his ship will stop moving. The server is at that moment no longer sending you updates. After a short time your client registers it as a timeout and removes the ship. (The client never does any form of position prediction, server is the authority.)

Target tracking of visible ships can be done on the GPS, but requires a bit more coding which I believe hasn't been done yet. (Although I don't trust foggy weather.)

To fix this the F11 coordinates need to be removed. And any coordinates need to be send through a personalized reference point.

[Bach]

2 hours ago, Busterbloodvessel said:

@admin

The GPS tracker exploit sounds like a serious hacker game spoiler. If it is true, can something be done to defeat this such as not sending ship position and ID data to the client until the contact ship is in render range?

 

Buster (swinging swords at ghosts)

I don't think there is anything that can or possibly should be done about this during beta testing. The bug reporting system marks ship coordinates.  I'm guessing whatever this third part program is that it simply checks the F11 cords for ships linked together in a common system, collects the data and then reports it on a positional map.  This would be the same as players periodically hitting f11 and telling everyone in their group what their cords are and then plotting everyone's coords on a separate map screen.  Of course a program does it all in the blink of an eye.  

I don't think this works for target ships. However, it no great measure for the spotting ships coords to be just as good as the actual target coords. So target cords are not all that valuable. Ultimately, when the game goes live the F11 system gets disabled and this potential goes away.

[Rebrall]

8 hours ago, Skully said:

It makes perfect sense.

Nobody will come out to save a casual and we need @Sir Texas Sir to keep the ducklings busy. 

Just as it is now or was in the past. With or without invisibility.

With invisibility 

 

i know some people abuse it but I've said it before and I'll say it again no matter what the mechanic in this game some one/group will always find a way to abuse it,

 

but then you got some people like  koltes and liqucity for example who do real 1v1's who don't and deserve a chance to get away after a good fight.

[Skully]

9 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

but then you got some people like  koltes and liqucity for example who do real 1v1's who don't and deserve a chance to get away after a good fight.

Koltes shouldn't need invisibility to get away, but needs something else for a good getaway.

On Sunday, August 20, 2017 at 6:58 PM, Skully said:

I can only say I agree. It wasn't fun or exciting when I sank koltes in a 3v1.

[Liq]

20 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

With invisibility 

 

i know some people abuse it but I've said it before and I'll say it again no matter what the mechanic in this game some one/group will always find a way to abuse it,

 

but then you got some people like  koltes and liqucity for example who do real 1v1's who don't and deserve a chance to get away after a good fight.

Eh it doesnt even necessarily need to be a fair battle IMO. I still think the Main point, which needs to be defended, is that you should ALWAYS get into battle what you see (more or less, 3 minute timer simulates that fact). Some players enjoy ganking more, and I think we should let them, because its part of an ow mmo.
I liked the suggestion of implementing an auto improoved Social Perk which let the battles stay open until the def. side had max. 1.3 - 1.5 times the BR of the attacking side. But some players didn't want to force balance into an OW MMO.

10 minutes ago, Skully said:

Koltes shouldn't need invisibility to get away

How exactly do you plan to get away when you get kicked out straight to OW  from a battle without any additional effects such as invis? I've seen Koltes sailing around solo before aswell. I know you guys like to counter revenge fleets with your own reinforcements. But when sailing around solo, the chance of evading a revenge fleet, without any invis., is next to non existant, no matter the ship. You really don't need to be a genius to anticipate where the guy leaving a battle is going to sail, and since you can literally camp on the exact battle pos, that makes it even easier for them.

[Rebrall]

41 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Eh it doesnt even necessarily need to be a fair battle IMO. I still think the Main point, which needs to be defended, is that you should ALWAYS get into battle what you see (more or less, 3 minute timer simulates that fact). Some players enjoy ganking more, and I think we should let them, because its part of an ow mmo.
I liked the suggestion of implementing an auto improoved Social Perk which let the battles stay open until the def. side had max. 1.3 - 1.5 times the BR of the attacking side. But some players didn't want to force balance into an OW MMO.

How exactly do you plan to get away when you get kicked out straight to OW  from a battle without any additional effects such as invis? I've seen Koltes sailing around solo before aswell. I know you guys like to counter revenge fleets with your own reinforcements. But when sailing around solo, the chance of evading a revenge fleet, without any invis., is next to non existant, no matter the ship. You really don't need to be a genius to anticipate where the guy leaving a battle is going to sail, and since you can literally camp on the exact battle pos, that makes it even easier for them.

Probably a bad example on my part but you get the gist though I don't hate your idea either it's a good suggestion it i would be more than happy for it to be implemented 

[Skully]

57 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

But when sailing around solo, the chance of evading a revenge fleet, without any invis., is next to non existant, no matter the ship.

On 7/16/2016 at 4:22 PM, Skully said:

And an entire British Armada was not enough to prevent me making my escape.

On 7/16/2016 at 11:57 PM, The Red Duke said:

Yarr Skully, the legend grows !!!!

 

Gotta love a good escape

No invisibility, no speed boost. Just me, my ship and the wind in my sails.