Exaggarated willingness to close to bayonet rage?

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I read in one of reviews that at launched infantry were too egger to close with the enemy in charges. Historically it was rare for infantry to close all the way. If they charged would come to a halt at 150m - 100m from the enemy line and start to exchange fire. As in the Frist World War or WWII bayonet injuries were very few.

Has this been fixed or will it be, is it on the list?

The game looks great and will be buying it anyway. Also, all ACW and Napoleonic Wars wargames I have ever come across ship with this exaggerated willingness to close to bayonet range.  But UGCW looks so good shame not to make it historically accurate if not already fixed.

Great game, congratulations,

All the best,

Kip. 

[JonnyH13]

In this game (and most strategy games in general), fear, insubordination, hesitation on the individual level (mostly), and anything that would make ordinary people fear to do are done away with.  The soldiers are the best sort of soldiers, willing to do whatever the commander (you or the AI) orders with no hesitation on the individual part (besides morale but that is simply a simplification of the complexity of morale itself).  This allows you to do things historically people would fear to do (within in game morale limits) such as charging and engaging in melee, eating canister fire for nothing (mostly), and other deadly actions.  Now apply this logic to real life where people would do whatever the commander ordered.  Think of tens of thousands of people going into a close melee and how many would die to not only bayonets but to rifle butts, blunt impact force, swords, teeth, choking, broken necks, and others.  That would be a lot of people indeed.   

[kipanderson]

JonnyH13, hi,

thanks for getting back to me.

Seems a shame to me that something so easily doable by a such a talented team is left so ahistorical, for want of a better term. But presumably the target market like their digital heroes to be heroic .

But a more challenging and would claim satisfying game if it were historically accurate .

No matter.. very fine game.

All the best,

kip.  

[Andre Bolkonsky]

On 9/5/2017 at 1:59 PM, kipanderson said:

JonnyH13, hi,

thanks for getting back to me.

Seems a shame to me that something so easily doable by a such a talented team is left so ahistorical, for want of a better term. But presumably the target market like their digital heroes to be heroic .

But a more challenging and would claim satisfying game if it were historically accurate .

No matter.. very fine game.

All the best,

kip.  

I have long been impressed with the amount of time, devotion, and study that went into making this game. But, at the end of the day, this is a game. There is always a divide between historical reality and game play, and if the game doesn't win the argument; who cares how historical it is. 

[maniacalpenny]

On 9/5/2017 at 11:59 AM, kipanderson said:

JonnyH13, hi,

thanks for getting back to me.

Seems a shame to me that something so easily doable by a such a talented team is left so ahistorical, for want of a better term. But presumably the target market like their digital heroes to be heroic .

But a more challenging and would claim satisfying game if it were historically accurate .

No matter.. very fine game.

All the best,

kip.  

It probably either rendered the AI too weak or was a very frustrating experience for the player (units refusing to charge and getting shot to pieces, or units withdrawing and scattering before  a charge even hits them)

 

If the enemy rarely or never charges the game honestly becomes a cakewalk. If you abuse the detatch skirmisher exploit to stop charges it quickly becomes apparently how broken the player becomes when fighting in a defensive position against an enemy incapable of charging home.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure it was considered, and maybe even implemented, but was scrapped for one reason or another.

[Friedrich]

15 hours ago, maniacalpenny said:

It probably either rendered the AI too weak or was a very frustrating experience for the player (units refusing to charge and getting shot to pieces, or units withdrawing and scattering before  a charge even hits them)

 

If the enemy rarely or never charges the game honestly becomes a cakewalk. If you abuse the detatch skirmisher exploit to stop charges it quickly becomes apparently how broken the player becomes when fighting in a defensive position against an enemy incapable of charging home.

 

Anyhow, I'm sure it was considered, and maybe even implemented, but was scrapped for one reason or another.

The detach skirmishers strat is a blatant exploit which needs to be fixed. I don't think it is a valid argument for why the game should be designed this way or that.

[maniacalpenny]

8 hours ago, Friedrich said:

The detach skirmishers strat is a blatant exploit which needs to be fixed. I don't think it is a valid argument for why the game should be designed this way or that.

I never said otherwise. I'm only using it as an example to show how easy the ai is to massacre without willingness to charge. The detached skirmisher exploit is so strong BECAUSE it stops charges, and keeps the enemy in the open field fighting you outside of cover. Without willingness to charge the enemy would do that without you needed to use the detached skirmisher exploit.

Obviously the exploit is a little stronger since you can choose where you wish the enemy to stop, but many times you can simply manipulate where you want the enemy to be by backing up and letting the enemy close to max range, which is where you want it to be. Obviously this sorts of manipulations could be rendered less useful with an improvement to the AI, but that is hardly in the realm of an easy fix.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I think the idea that “realism…”, in this case lack of a willingness to melee, and a game been accessible and fun are mutually exclusive is something of a canard.

But wargames developers are businesses. Equally many may simply find it more fun if their men are heroic.   

Great game. But that little tweak would take it to a higher level.

 

All the best,

Kip.