Why did players leave?

[Rebrall]

4 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

I do on the other hand think the guy that got jumped should get some rewards if he took it  like a man and fought his ass off. I'm a proponent for a system that gives rewards based on BR difference and skill level. Skill level is tough to measure, but if a no name can defeat a pvp legend in equal ships he should get a waterfall of rewards. 

Skill level measure - I hate suggesting this couldn't we introduce a system very similar to another game and add rating system were you only get a better rating by beating plyers with a similar or higher rating? It can and will be abused but name a system in this game that hasn't it isn't 

[Sir Texas Sir]

2 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

Skill level measure - I hate suggesting this couldn't we introduce a system very similar to another game and add rating system were you only get a better rating by beating plyers with a similar or higher rating? It can and will be abused but name a system in this game that hasn't it isn't 

The only thing we should have based off your skill and it shouldn't be rewards.   It should be a reputation system.  You beat a group 1 vs 5 you get high reputation points.  You jump a small lowbie 5 to 1 and you actually loose reputation.   Killing some one with High Reputation as a Pirate might give you abonus to xp/credits along with a reputation boost.

[Duncan McFail]

12 minutes ago, Rebrall said:

Skill level measure - I hate suggesting this couldn't we introduce a system very similar to another game and add rating system were you only get a better rating by beating plyers with a similar or higher rating? It can and will be abused but name a system in this game that hasn't it isn't 

Spent a lot of time thinking this through awhile ago and this is what I came up with. 

 

[Rebrall]

@Duncan McFail on my phone I will have a good look later but having a brief look & I like that idea 

[IndianaGeoff]

I am inclined to agree with no timer.  Anyone can sail to it and if the time is not up, fight.  Want a nice, quiet gank, do it in a quiet corner of the map.  Gank someone inside Charleston harbour, expect company.

If you join in the open seas, 20 minutes into the battle, it will take a while to get in combat and it is unlikely to sink a smart player in the time left.

No invis or speed coming out, but let the battle end timer run a bit longer.  Defense forces camping the exit have to invest time.  The person inside can sail if time is left and it has some relationship to the exit.  That gives the aggressor some chances when out.  Especially if the area is cluttered with islands.

[Rhodry Heidenrich]

6 hours ago, Aegir said:

Not to refute your point in any way, but I just wanted to chime in that while as you say it probably sucks in modern-day WoW, open world PvP was absolutely amazing in vanilla WoW. A mish-mash of dozens of players ranging from level 18 to 60 fighting for no real purpose other than the fun of it and the feeling of protecting either Astranaar or the Crossroads. And just as the introduction of battlegrounds killed that off completely, I'm sure that Legends will put a very sizeable dent in NA as well. Not that I mind, since I'm rather disillusioned about the value of NA's OW PvP at the moment.

I played Vanilla, and it was more fun before... well it turned into what it is today. I was definitely making a modern day comparison.

[Norfolk nChance]

If you like your Porn without the storyline jump to the bottom of the post… “Quick PORN”

What a great question @Simon Cadete… grab a glass of red,

 

Summary of replies… “Too Hard Core…” “Second Job…” “Lack of content…” “Server Split…” “Returning PCs saw the New Grind and jumped overboard…” and it goes on. The responses from all senior Captains and most know more about the game than I ever will, even @admin joins in. So, I mulled this question over and hit a problem. I’m biased, I’m a Fanboy or Addict. I agree with a lot of the replies made and completely disagree with others. Admin’s view I don’t think answers the question properly either imho…

 

So, @Simon Cadete if you’ll allow me I changed the question…

“Why do I still play Naval Action after ‘000’s hours of input…?”

My second question then immediately came to mind…

“Why did I stop playing EvE Online…?”

 

I put years of play into our big sister EvE one dare dent think how much in fact. Watching my three-old daughter leave for Uni and then getting married. It does that too ya… and NA has got that same addictive quality. Like that old girlfriend, you just keep looking back, that’s just the none playing STEAM forum guys. They don’t play but still write why?

The clan I now run on all three servers [ELITE] had 30 to 50 regular players. Really now its PvP Global focus with a real solid CORE of just eight plus me. The eight don’t comprise of new clan members, all over a year membership and came from the original PvE start.

SORRY but turning TOXIC…

We actually like “playing” together. This is where my answer to the question lies. The Game morphs into a hobby, and that’s why we keep playing. We enjoy each other’s company. This extends out to other players and clans in the community including Bad Benny.

Since the “so called…” server split the toxicity level from players of all nations as rocketed. I don’t want to write on the forums anymore or even reply to questions on STEAM. You might think that’s a result, but my clan and I have definitely become MORE introvert. And that’s BAD for the game as whole if this is felt elsewhere…?

No NOT Hardcore…

The Game is NOT too hardcore, EvE is much deeper. A small clan like [ELITE] has grind issues like you if not worse due to size. The issue impart is to do with legacy from the year without wipes and the thought of at least TWO wipes in the future if not more to come. 

The amount of input I’ve put into this game I find astonishing. Spreadsheets, research, analysis with most of it now redundant. This by the way was the same with EvE. I wouldn’t believe it if @admin on day 1 said Norfolk not only will you put x-amount of game time but also all the other parts that go into it.

The difference is NA is not a Game it’s still in test mode. EVE was launched fifteen years ago. The Product will stall if the workers can’t see an end in sight. The game needs a START date even if it’s still rough around the edges.

Starting over, again and again yes is needed but is exhausting. That’s different from GRIND and is where may I dare say it most of my peers make the wrong assumption. 

 

if you think I'm talking rubbish let me know, 

Norfolk

Ps I left EvE because the underlying game play mechanic stopped improving. The Toxic player base wasn’t the key but stopped me returning for a long time. Then when I did, the game simply had just moved so far on the thought of having to do all that Re-grind again killed it for me…

 

Quick Porn…

The thought of Legacy grinding to be repeated drives up anxiety levels leading to a more toxic player base. This now unfriendly front puts new players off, simple as that. The player base always sinks after a restart, but fewer ppls return each time in an ever-decreasing circle…

The Game needs a Launched date to re-focus all, or it will become terminal.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Norfolk nChance

[Guest]

On 31/8/2017 at 5:29 PM, admin said:

Players don't leave or quit. Players stop playing. They do it for 3 reasons
1) They win (conquer everything they wanted)
2) They lose and see that they can't win
3) They finish the game (their personal win)
4) They don't like the game

66% of buyers like the game. They stop playing because they finish the game. For example they level up to victory/santisima: experience the ships they like, look at the world and move on spending 30-40 hours finishing the main content (ships). Some start trading and also finish the game once they built the ships they wanted or made millions in the risky environment. 

We have no plans to artificially tie or lock these players to game (and plan to remove or ease the artificial shackles created in the 24th may patch). 

Those who stay for longer - stay for pvp and rvr.
They destroy their opponents and then act puzzled asking why their opponents leave + start complaining about lack of rvr or pvp. 

With no advertising there is no influx of new players and this situation will continue until we add UI and localization. The blood flow is artificially stifled so we don't waste marketing money on brining the game which has no UI for example.

Ratings accentuate this problem.
Good ratings increase sales.
Lower ratings reduce inflow of players removing pvp and rvr completely. New players buy the game "because ships", not "because pvp" as pvp players read the reviews that pvp is bad bad bad. 

Situation will continue until UI is done

You can't "win" in a sandbox game. And to state that players who stay for RvR/PvP "destroys" their opponent to the point where the opponent leaves the game is a bit much. 

There are other MMOs out there that makes PvP and RvR function. Wouldn't another explanation be more logical? - like how the tp to freetowns forced PvP players to either only be PvP players and do nothing but sail for endless hours or choose not to PvP and got struck by the boredom of the bots - that btw are as dumb as a lamppost.. How many PvP battles were there per player on average before the "great wipe" (that introduced very little new tbh) and how many PvP battles are there per player on average today?

Most of us who play the game daily can see a very clear cause and effect correlation.

 

Oh and btw the line about "risky environment" in regard to trading is simply not true. On average I make between 20 and 30 runs before loosing a tradeship and I make about 800k per run - The profits far, far, far exceeds the risks and the trader will be replaced instantly.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Guest

[Macjimm]

On 31/08/2017 at 8:08 AM, Batman said:

The constant fighting-only-state of the game has become boring for me. There is nothing but fighting in this game. Even the traders fight in ports outbidding each other.

For myself:  The enjoyment from the game has always been the sailing, interactions with players and the trading.  But they are all connected and really can't be separated.    I still like the game now, more than ever.

I've always wondered if the combat would get boring for those who play primarily just to fight.   The battles without some sort of purpose would perhaps become stale quickly.   Glad you mentioned it cause I've suspected that many players who complain they want to have PvP continuously would eventually get sick of just having battle after battle ,   over and over.

[Skully]

6 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

A player slightly out of a circle needs to turn around and enter farther behind slower pursuers. A player with a nation port in view might not receive aid in time even with those 12 guys sitting right there unable to enter and help him.

To the player just tagged in view of a friendly port,

On 6/22/2016 at 7:16 PM, Skully said:

To make sure the expectations are right, this mechanic will not save you.

It just moves the complaints from sitting an hour on OW to sailing an hour in battle.

The gankee has been outplayed and outmaneuvered. No escort, no calling home to ensure ships at the ready. It is lack of organization and skill. No sympathies.

6 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

Tag circle is fine, but give another bigger circle that all players around have a choice of joining. I mean huge like draw distance. Even give players outside of it the ability to join during the whole battle.

Nice in theory, doesn't work in practice. The OODA loop of an average player is ~30 seconds. In a low population region this might work as it would be the only engagement. In a high population region it does not as all over the region battles are instigated. I have seen 3 or 4 battles erupt within those 30 seconds and then you expect the average player to pick the right fight?

On 6/23/2016 at 8:16 PM, Skully said:

Yes, as the circle passes over your ship, entry is dictated by the engagement distance of your choice you made beforehand.

So it must be automatic, you make the choice beforehand and let the game take care of things.

6 hours ago, Liquicity said:

Because by the time you make the first, initial, engagement, and nothing joins after 3 minutes, nothing was in range to help out. it's an MMO. ganking happens. The fact that you can camp on an exact battle pos. (f11 coords) and therefore get to an enemy you were never supposed to get to, is a wonky mechanic.

Can you describe to me how you would see the future of pvp? And where do you see it happening? Not in national waters anymore, thats for sure. So then where is the reason for players to actively LEAVE their national waters?

F11 coords is a problem and must/will be removed.

Why enter enemy waters?

• To help out a friend from our mortal enemy @Jeheil and true saboteur @D4mi4n, http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/15270-pvp1-june-16th-a-victory-at-belize/
• Or grab a Victory ourselves, http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/15623-pvp1-august-3rd-the-french-émissaire/
• To smuggle some goods, http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/14842-pvp1-june-26th-pirate-scamscum-at-kingston/ (although it also needs contracts everywhere)

Or we simply PvP because we RvR, http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/14676-pvp1-june-the-british-honduras-campaign-pirate-perspective/

 

11 hours ago, Duncan McFail said:

I do on the other hand think the guy that got jumped should get some rewards if he took it  like a man and fought his ass off. I'm a proponent for a system that gives rewards based on BR difference and skill level. Skill level is tough to measure, but if a no name can defeat a pvp legend in equal ships he should get a waterfall of rewards. 

No. If a no name defeats a legend, there is something fishy. I'll show you (and admin) what lies behind the smoke created by man.

3 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

And unfortunately you're at a standstill.   you wont get new players interested enough to become veterans...and you will lose your veterans 

Fix the loop,

19 hours ago, Skully said:

New players lack:

1. Knowledge, we don't tell them anything, they are probably spies anyway;
2. Skill, but this can happen over time, not on demand;
3. Reward, for their time put into this game.

Then skill will come and with it knowledge of the game and ultimately we have new players become veterans (as well) happily ganking fair fighting away. 

by giving proper reward. 

 

[Skully]

3 hours ago, Bearwall said:

You can't "win" in a sandbox game. And to state that players who stay for RvR/PvP "destroys" their opponent to the point where the opponent leaves the game is a bit much. 

It isn't and I have shown you this. 

 

[Norfolk nChance]

LMAO... I rest my case... !

 

 

 

[victor]

7 hours ago, Norfolk nChance said:

If you like your Porn without the storyline jump to the bottom of the post… “Quick PORN”

What a great question @Simon Cadete… grab a glass of red,

 

Summary of replies… “Too Hard Core…” “Second Job…” “Lack of content…” “Server Split…” “Returning PCs saw the New Grind and jumped overboard…” and it goes on. The responses from all senior Captains and most know more about the game than I ever will, even @admin joins in. So, I mulled this question over and hit a problem. I’m biased, I’m a Fanboy or Addict. I agree with a lot of the replies made and completely disagree with others. Admin’s view I don’t think answers the question properly either imho…

 

So, @Simon Cadete if you’ll allow me I changed the question…

“Why do I still play Naval Action after ‘000’s hours of input…?”

My second question then immediately came to mind…

“Why did I stop playing EvE Online…?”

 

I put years of play into our big sister EvE one dare dent think how much in fact. Watching my three-old daughter leave for Uni and then getting married. It does that too ya… and NA has got that same addictive quality. Like that old girlfriend, you just keep looking back, that’s just the none playing STEAM forum guys. They don’t play but still write why?

The clan I now run on all three servers [ELITE] had 30 to 50 regular players. Really now its PvP Global focus with a real solid CORE of just eight plus me. The eight don’t comprise of new clan members, all over a year membership and came from the original PvE start.

SORRY but turning TOXIC…

We actually like “playing” together. This is where my answer to the question lies. The Game morphs into a hobby, and that’s why we keep playing. We enjoy each other’s company. This extends out to other players and clans in the community including Bad Benny.

Since the “so called…” server split the toxicity level from players of all nations as rocketed. I don’t want to write on the forums anymore or even reply to questions on STEAM. You might think that’s a result, but my clan and I have definitely become MORE introvert. And that’s BAD for the game as whole if this is felt elsewhere…?

No NOT Hardcore…

The Game is NOT too hardcore, EvE is much deeper. A small clan like [ELITE] has grind issues like you if not worse due to size. The issue impart is to do with legacy from the year without wipes and the thought of at least TWO wipes in the future if not more to come. 

The amount of input I’ve put into this game I find astonishing. Spreadsheets, research, analysis with most of it now redundant. This by the way was the same with EvE. I wouldn’t believe it if @admin on day 1 said Norfolk not only will you put x-amount of game time but also all the other parts that go into it.

The difference is NA is not a Game it’s still in test mode. EVE was launched fifteen years ago. The Product will stall if the workers can’t see an end in sight. The game needs a START date even if it’s still rough around the edges.

Starting over, again and again yes is needed but is exhausting. That’s different from GRIND and is where may I dare say it most of my peers make the wrong assumption. 

 

if you think I'm talking rubbish let me know, 

Norfolk

Ps I left EvE because the underlying game play mechanic stopped improving. The Toxic player base wasn’t the key but stopped me returning for a long time. Then when I did, the game simply had just moved so far on the thought of having to do all that Re-grind again killed it for me…

 

Quick Porn…

The thought of Legacy grinding to be repeated drives up anxiety levels leading to a more toxic player base. This now unfriendly front puts new players off, simple as that. The player base always sinks after a restart, but fewer ppls return each time in an ever-decreasing circle…

The Game needs a Launched date to re-focus all, or it will become terminal.

 

 

I am one of the few that have been playing since when I started till now (a crapton of hours ingame then and for some strange reason I go on playing), so - since I'm lazy - I try summarize:

1) the game is more hardbore than hardcore and requires a huuuuuuuge amount of hours to achieve good results.

2) the game wants to be a sandbox but there is not much sand therein to play with and rewards for effort are ... improvable

3) after a loooooooong alpha, people are quite fed up to regrind their ...ss off (so if they full wipe before - or at - the release, there could be ... problems)

4) game is very unforgiving with new players and does not have a good name on steam

Intriguing situation, isn't it?

Edited September 2, 2017 by victor

[shaeberle84]

On 31.8.2017 at 8:19 PM, admin said:

Even World of warcraft does not give rewards if you don't kill an NPC or a player. There are no partial kills even in WOW.

Please do not compare your game to Wow. In WoW, a death means nothing. They even got resurrection abilities.

In Naval Action as it is right now, a death means you have to waste 2-20 hours of gameplay to replace your 5-1st rate.

This comparison is ridiculous and you know it.

[shaeberle84]

On 31.8.2017 at 8:25 PM, admin said:

majority of games don't give participation trophies. eve/wow/many others. in fact i can't name a single mmo that give xp or money if you did not kill an enemy. We had this effort rewards but they were exploited. Thus we chose a proven way because everyone else (every other mmo designer) have already figured it out.

This game is not comparable. A death in WoW and many other games means nothing. In Naval Action it is worth hours of grinding/trading.

[Hodo]

I honestly dont know why we keep posting... @admin last response was 3 days ago.  

[Macjimm]

On 8/31/2017 at 8:29 AM, admin said:

Players don't leave or quit. Players stop playing. They do it for 3 reasons
1) They win (conquer everything they wanted)
2) They lose and see that they can't win
3) They finish the game (their personal win)
4) They don't like the game

Good response ...

Also I think there are a bunch of players who have not left or quit.   They are just waiting for early access to end.

By the way, the game is not too hardcore.  If we sailed in real time in OW, were not able to teleport,  had banks, would lose gold that was on a ship, could die and lose our character,  had crews that required food/water/medicine, required ships to be tied to a dock or buoyed, had limited room in ports for ships,  had damage to ships from wind, waves, collisions, had rocky shores and reefs that caused damage, had currents and winds that caused ships to drift from the heading, had to wait for items to be crafted or grown,  experienced pitch darkness at night,  and were able to adjust sails realistically, perhaps that would be too hardcore.  Game seems balanced right now.   Players that are quitting because it is too hardcore may be more interested in an arcade style age of sail shooter ... like the upcoming Legends.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Macjimm
spellinkg

[PongoNW]

Seeing the admins list in response gives me no hope. If they cannot see people leaving the game in response to the changes they make, then there is no hope for them.

No one ever quit this game because of the blue print drop scheme in the old game.

No one ever quit this game because they got a ship they wanted.

No one every quit this game because some resource to build some material was too rare.

Some people have certainly left because of how much sailing is required. 

They left the game because the devs keep spinning the dial in response to a few hard core whiners and make their efforts worthless.

They left the game because the devs set up some nations in a hole.

They left the game because the pirate mechanic is and has always been asinine.

But most of all, people leave the game because the interface between open world and battle has always been silly even in concept. When people play the game and players de-cloak from battle to gank them, they leave. We never see them again.

This central tenent of the game has always been stupid and undercuts everything good about the game. 

Spinning the dial on game economy has always been pretty pointless people leave when the devs undue their efforts with near clockwork regularity.

The ship fighting is fine, once in battle, but the interface with open world is a wet mess. Always has been. 

 

 

 

[Jima]

The open world part of this game and all the interactions was a large part of what got me hooked and spending more time playing. I don't think I was involved in a single game since the old days of playing Warbirds Online.

I liked the early sea trials for some quick action. Legends sound like it will be similar but like the early sea trials will only satisfy some quick instant gratification. It won't keep people around as long or as interested in the long term.

For me since the wipe, it's just become too much grind that can be lost too quickly. This results is not enough Naval action to keep up my interests like I had before.  Maybe if grinding was more fun, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad, but for now it just requires too much time before getting to the point where you're ready to take you're earnings and risk losing a ship.

The often toxic behavior of a lot of the players on the forums and in chat doesn't help the over all attitude either.

 It doesn't matter anyhow. From what I gather the devs are going to make the game they want regardless of our opinions. They got my money and I do feel I got my moneys worth. Whether I or anyone  else sticks around or not no longer matters to them as long as they have an influx of new players for future income.

 

 

 

 

[RURickJames]

Too many changes and the development never seems to end

[Barbancourt]

If you can just sail the seas and get some people together for small mixed frigate battles the game is superb.  The low population, alts, RvR imbalance, wonky economy, capital region gankers, etc are getting in the way.  I'm not a genius - I don't have all the answers - but there is a lot of potential here that should not be thrown out. 

[SeamanStaines]

Springby I appreaciate your concern and it cant be easy for the DEVS to listen to harsh critisism. But its important to be frank. I can only speak for myself and why, after 3000 hours, I gave up. We had a beautiful game. Yes it needed tweaking here and there, but overall it was wonderful. We then spent a long time going around in circles tweaking things that already worked and not addressing the remaining problems. But then the DEVS inexplcably changed everything, including the things that worked fine. I dont know where these ideas came from and why all was changed at once. The grind became worse, the consequences of PVP drastic and the time required sailing mindlessly became a major drain on players time. In short, it appeared to me that the DEVS had lost touch with the mainstream communty and the things that made us play the game. Instead the vision of the DEVS became increasing at odds with everything that kept me playing. It was as if the founders, who were passionate about the game, had lost control, to be replaced by "wall street" executives who just viewed the game in terms of population cycles and natural wastage of players. I hope that they can get back to the passion for the game that we once enjoyed. Then I will happily return. For now its not that I have turned to another game, its that its so frustrating to watch something that I loved going in this direction.

Edited September 17, 2017 by SeamanStaines

[Quineloe]

On 8/31/2017 at 8:19 PM, admin said:

 Even World of warcraft does not give rewards

WoW introduced the so called "bum mark" in 2005 already. You win a battleground, you get 3 marks for that battleground, you lose you only get 1. So yes, WoW does indeed give you a participation trophy.  Also in WoW players died so frequently in PVP all around, you were bound to get a few kills here and there even as a bad player.  Yesterday there were 90 minutes between two kills on the entire EU server during prime time. World of Tanks, which you're going to copy in NA Legends, gives a participation trophy on every battle. In low tier battles, this trophy is so low it covers all repair and ammo cost. Even if you die without firing a single shot, you get rewarded.

Speaking of WoT - that one actually does give non-kill rewards. Shoot someone down to half hp, you get rewarded for that even if he survives the battle. Will we see that in NA Legends as well?

 

On 8/31/2017 at 8:04 PM, fox2run said:

You are plain right very, very rude right now. Many of us have used considerably amount of time to come with feedback, solutions troubleshooting etc. If you do not cater more about your customers than this, you can take your lousy product and wipe you a...

I'm so done with Game Labs.

 

If only that had come true...

[Slim McSauce]

I think what we have now can stay for a while, devs need to start focusing on core content creation. There's a simple lack of things to do.

[Teutonic]

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I think what we have now can stay for a while, devs need to start focusing on core content creation. There's a simple lack of things to do.

Agreed - i have had friends come back recently and they are enjoying NA again, but yes there is still a lack of "things to do" after the bare bones of missions and rvr.