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Why did players leave?


Simon Cadete

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3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

why would you want bovenwind / copper plating / crooked hull now? 2% speed each, some even with severe downsides. Totally not worth it. My teak teak surp does 12.6 knots according to stats, works fine.

It does not matter what i want.

That is the state of the game right now.

I see no comment on Cartagena Caulking, i suppose i am right.

3 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

Well you know you can combine the carpenter upgrade with the perk. and the skill book. all together you can make much more out of repair, which can allow you to win in outnumbered situations aswel

Really? I can combine those?(sorry for the sarcasm)

You could do the same if you had no need to craft them. That is why the idea of removing the permanent upgrades, upgrades as such.Just having 8 slots on a ship which need to be unlocked.

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But Cortez is right you spent more time looking+ getting the perma mods for the ship. And by the way @Liquicity the ships I captured on global had copper or figurehead + bovenwind + crooked hull. 

And staysails + studdingsails.....

But ship knowledge got introduced because modules were to hard to find or their costs were higher than the actual ship. but we still have the stupid perma mods? Where is the logic? Is there logic?

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On 31.8.2017 at 8:25 PM, admin said:

majority of games don't give participation trophies. eve/wow/many others. in fact i can't name a single mmo that give xp or money if you did not kill an enemy. We had this effort rewards but they were exploited. Thus we chose a proven way because everyone else (every other mmo designer) have already figured it out.

@admin GW2 doing is very successfully by earning some kind of participation points per tick..

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/WvW_Reward_Track

I really really want you to take a look at that and think about that reward-track-system of Guild Wars 2 RvR. I simply works since 2012! You should think about how to bring some of these elements into the battle instance to give more rewards for participation in (pvp) fights.

Players who are in the battle should earn points per tick, but they need to do something. Maybe earning points per ticks can start only if you are in fireing range of an enemy ship. Give Points not only for make damage at hull, also for damage at sails, masts and crew and also some fewer points for receiving damage and for using rep kits. More extra points for capturing and sinking ships and and much more extra points for the result(my team wins). As more enemies sunk as more points your team as hole gets.

In the end sum all points and calculate the rewards (Gold, Marks, whatever)

Edited by Sven Silberbart
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9 hours ago, Cortez said:

RvR is good as it is atm, i am talking about PBs. Atm it is the only possibility for a fair fight, 25 vs 25, 50/50 chance to win for both sides.

You will NEVER have such opportunity in OW, or mostly NEVER.

Lack of PvP has always the same reason. Being afraid of losing the ship, and there is no other reason beyond that.

Because of it, i would remove completely permanent upgrades, and make all possible gimmicks and upgrades as "once achieved,can be used all the time".

This is exactly why it isn't good, people don't want a completely fair single 25v25 as the decider of the most important thing in the game. It doesn't fall in line with the theme of OW sandbox type mmo, its like a WOT battle.

If people want completely even 25v25s, their can be missions for that, or wait for Naval Action Legends, but leave the arena style battles out of Nation v Nation

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On 1-9-2017 at 3:54 PM, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

 

You've brought up WoW a couple of times.

 

Look, PvP in WoW is not the same as PvP in Naval Action. Open world PvP in modern day WoW is a laughing stock footnote because it's idiotically imbalanced, and there's pretty much no reason to do it. The reward for beating down some poor sod is the mere satisfaction that your class was able to two shot theirs. The only thing anyone loses in a gank is 30 seconds of time, so there doesn't need to be any kind of "participation trophy". OW PvP in WoW has no impact on anything, at all, which is why it's not exactly a selling point for the game. 

"You should come play World of Warcraft! The open world PvP is amazing" --- Nobody, Ever

 

Meanwhile, in the game you're doing a great job of sailing off of the edge of the world to become a forgotten footnote in time (which is sad, because I actually like the game), Open World PvP is one of the focal points. One of the issues with OW PvP is a lot of players are unwilling to fight unless they know they're going to win, which is why ganks and seal clubbing are so prevalent. Getting absolutely nothing on top of what you lose when you sink in this game is counter incentive to want to PvP. I don't think anyone here feels that the losing captain should get anything that resembles the rewards the winner gets. I doubt many people feel that you should be able to "lose" your way to affording a 1st rate. The sentiment is, however, that given the time investment this game requires to be able to be functional within it, some kind of reward should be present for everybody as a way to keep people willing to re-equip and try again. 

 

 

look i was in a pickle and get nothing for doing PVP

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/862858215785176853/6F927A70108A92F04075A50E0A4C038A4ADAC128/

shot 28 hulls, sails 24, shock 2, canon 2, crew 67 and 40 minutes of game play @admin

my reward was 0.0 , zero,  nada nothing, only costs for making a ship what does not pay off ...  what means young captain do not feel the effort

nor feel the use for them in battle PVP style

there is an error in reward, made by the developers 

after seeing the final battle report they think NO REWARDS yeah hello kitty it i am out 

(ps the battle itself was not a gank, but a trap the setup took 2 hours )

 

 

 

Edited by Thonys
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4 hours ago, Rhodry Heidenrich said:

Look, PvP in WoW is not the same as PvP in Naval Action. Open world PvP in modern day WoW is a laughing stock footnote because it's idiotically imbalanced, and there's pretty much no reason to do it. The reward for beating down some poor sod is the mere satisfaction that your class was able to two shot theirs. The only thing anyone loses in a gank is 30 seconds of time, so there doesn't need to be any kind of "participation trophy". OW PvP in WoW has no impact on anything, at all, which is why it's not exactly a selling point for the game. 


"You should come play World of Warcraft! The open world PvP is amazing" --- Nobody, Ever

Not to refute your point in any way, but I just wanted to chime in that while as you say it probably sucks in modern-day WoW, open world PvP was absolutely amazing in vanilla WoW. A mish-mash of dozens of players ranging from level 18 to 60 fighting for no real purpose other than the fun of it and the feeling of protecting either Astranaar or the Crossroads. And just as the introduction of battlegrounds killed that off completely, I'm sure that Legends will put a very sizeable dent in NA as well. Not that I mind, since I'm rather disillusioned about the value of NA's OW PvP at the moment.

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6 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

Not when it comes to lopsided battles like. Should have some pathetic reward like 50g and 10xp split 6 ways to at least show that rewards could exist. 

i think so to 

its better to have one pigeon given  in the hand, than 5 others in the hands of the victorious

 

ps: also perhaps a more detailed battle report like we see in armored warfare or war thunder would be great

Edited by Thonys
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8 minutes ago, Thonys said:

i think so to 

its better to have one pigeon given  in the hand, than 5 others in the hands of the victorious

I do on the other hand think the guy that got jumped should get some rewards if he took it  like a man and fought his ass off. I'm a proponent for a system that gives rewards based on BR difference and skill level. Skill level is tough to measure, but if a no name can defeat a pvp legend in equal ships he should get a waterfall of rewards. 

Edited by Duncan McFail
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1 minute ago, Duncan McFail said:

I do on the other hand think the guy that got jumped should get some rewards if he took like a man and fought his ass off. I'm a proponent for a system that gives rewards based on BR difference and skill level. Skill level is tough to measure, but if a no name can defeat a pvp legend in equal ships he should get a waterfall of rewards. 

i agree...

he fought well (the net closed on him , but that s the story of the battle and has /is no subjective to the thread)

he probably made damage too,  so 20 % (or any other percentage) of the damage is on his account as well i can live with that  ..

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18 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Not to refute your point in any way, but I just wanted to chime in that while as you say it probably sucks in modern-day WoW, open world PvP was absolutely amazing in vanilla WoW. A mish-mash of dozens of players ranging from level 18 to 60 fighting for no real purpose other than the fun of it and the feeling of protecting either Astranaar or the Crossroads. And just as the introduction of battlegrounds killed that off completely, I'm sure that Legends will put a very sizeable dent in NA as well. Not that I mind, since I'm rather disillusioned about the value of NA's OW PvP at the moment.

Tarren Mill guards coming out x4 and smacking you silly... good old days

We are only suffering at the moment because we are the content and we are too few

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49 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

This is exactly why it isn't good, people don't want a completely fair single 25v25 as the decider of the most important thing in the game. It doesn't fall in line with the theme of OW sandbox type mmo, its like a WOT battle.

If people want completely even 25v25s, their can be missions for that, or wait for Naval Action Legends, but leave the arena style battles out of Nation v Nation

What people don`t want that?

I m not sure you know what are you talking about....The mechanics are set.Possibility is given 25 vs25.

It does not mean that you can have all the time 25vs25, but it is given.

There is no such strict mechanic in OW.

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2 hours ago, Cortez said:

But what kind of disadvantage you can have in 1 vs 1?

Wind.

Opponent's vessel vs. your's. (speed, turn rate, # of cannons & type, etc.....)

Opponent always has a buddy waiting nearby. (clanner? most definately will have nearby. pirate? definately hiding in end of battle screen.. klingon)

Opponent's reputation. (you will learn, if you haven't already, who these are)

 

**You must be new to NA to be asking this question. Welcome to NA

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1 minute ago, WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

Wind.

Opponent's vessel vs. your's. (speed, turn rate, # of cannons & type, etc.....)

Opponent always has a buddy waiting nearby. (clanner? most definately will have nearby. pirate? definately hiding in end of battle screen.. klingon)

Opponent's reputation. (you will learn, if you haven't already, who these are)

 

**You must be new to NA to be asking this question. Welcome to NA

LOL.

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2 hours ago, Cortez said:

What people don`t want that?

I m not sure you know what are you talking about....The mechanics are set.Possibility is given 25 vs25.

It does not mean that you can have all the time 25vs25, but it is given.

There is no such strict mechanic in OW.

Its still EA, no mechanics are set, 1 25v25 is too small for taking ports

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4 hours ago, Liquicity said:

I also think the idea of invisibility is fine, although some tweaks are still needed. It did what it was supposed to, stopped revenge ganks

And brought back invisibility ganks, which wasn't hard to prove.

So it goes back where it belongs, in the trashcan.

On 8/31/2017 at 8:47 PM, admin said:

For example - invisibility will be removed. It was purely a solo hunter feature for people hunting near capitals. Who does not play anyway even after he got it. With new reinforcement fleets that feature must be removed.

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Just now, Skully said:
On 31.8.2017 at 8:47 PM, admin said:

For example - invisibility will be removed. It was purely a solo hunter feature for people hunting near capitals. Who does not play anyway even after he got it. With new reinforcement fleets that feature must be removed.

lol

It was not purely for solo hunters. It was implemented for the whole community because camping on a battle pos is retarded and makes zero sense

Personally I stopped playing the game for other personal reasons; for the short time I was playing when the invis was around, I was enjoying it. But most likely never going back to playing the sandbox as intensively as I used to at times, both because personal reasons and the way the game is going :) 
NA Arena to the rescue. Can't recommend sandbox to anyone seeking for pvp.

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1 minute ago, Liquicity said:

camping on a battle pos is retarded and makes zero sense

Yup, it is a complete waste of time. Because if you spend that time building hostility (preferably by flag battle, not PvE battle) then it is time much better spent.

Revenge fleet can also easily be countered by having a scout around.

It's one of those "what are people willing to invest (timewise) to ensure a winning condition?". Should it be punished somehow, yes. Should we tweak OW with wonky mechanics for it, no.

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1 minute ago, Skully said:

Yup, it is a complete waste of time. Because if you spend that time building hostility (preferably by flag battle, not PvE battle) then it is time much better spent.

Revenge fleet can also easily be countered by having a scout around.

It's one of those "what are people willing to invest (timewise) to ensure a winning condition?". Should it be punished somehow, yes. Should we tweak OW with wonky mechanics for it, no.

we had tp-to-port before the wipe for a good while, because camping on battle pos. was being considered a wonky mechanic. and the vast majority accepted it and supported it. simply because you shouldnt be able to bypass the 3 minute timer which determines if anyone is close and allows you to join an engagement vs a hostile ship.

a scout? won't bring you that far if the fleet outside is any smart and spread out; no invis at all will be extremely fun :) No way out for noone coming out of a battle.

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On August 31, 2017 at 3:11 AM, Simon Cadete said:

I know that there are bad mechanics in the game, I know that the game consumes a lot of time and a lot of it is doing boring things(trading, crafting and moving stuff around. I also know that we have different time zone players in the server and that makes it harder for decent port battles. 

With all that said. I'm curious to know specific reasons why people in global quit. I know that a lot don't log in to the game but still check the forums.

So, why did players stop playing?

It's not rocket science. Once everyone was done building up and skill up for the end game it was up to the end game to hold everyone's interest. The current end game is simply not up to the task. People came blame a lot of factors but the truth is that if there still was content to achieve, more skills to grind or new things to build we would all still be playing the game.  The sand box was supposed to replace the build ladder. But it didn't succeed. So once the ladder was climbed there wasn't as much to do.

Edited by Bach
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38 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

we had tp-to-port before the wipe for a good while, because camping on battle pos. was being considered a wonky mechanic. and the vast majority accepted it and supported it. simply because you shouldnt be able to bypass the 3 minute timer which determines if anyone is close and allows you to join an engagement vs a hostile ship.

How can somebody just sitting still be consider a mechanic? Let alone a wonky mechanic? He is just wasting time.

Tp-to-port was a free ticket home for anybody who ventured too deep into enemy waters and suddenly realized he had chewed a bone too big. So quickly tagging a trader and use the tp was your free ticket out of there. Aka a wonky mechanic.

Of course a lot of folks accepted it. Everybody could use it at whim, completely bypassing the goal of OW (movement and position). Frequently to ensure an end to their play session. And everybody loved it until they saw how it was used against them, to tp away from the consequences of not having command of the sea.

46 minutes ago, Liquicity said:

a scout? won't bring you that far if the fleet outside is any smart and spread out; no invis at all will be extremely fun :) No way out for noone coming out of a battle.

Knowing the composition of your enemy is winning half the battle. The other half is the anti-revenge fleet sitting over the horizon, what we like to call our escort back home. :D

On 9/11/2016 at 9:36 AM, Skully said:

So Fuzzy was nicely ganking away at Jamaica, building up "hostilities" (hur hur).

When the heat got a bit high and he called for an escort back home.

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1 hour ago, Liquicity said:

we had tp-to-port before the wipe for a good while, because camping on battle pos. was being considered a wonky mechanic. and the vast majority accepted it and supported it. simply because you shouldnt be able to bypass the 3 minute timer which determines if anyone is close and allows you to join an engagement vs a hostile ship.

a scout? won't bring you that far if the fleet outside is any smart and spread out; no invis at all will be extremely fun :) No way out for noone coming out of a battle.

I hated the tp to port after along with combat logging. I also don't like the current 30 sec invis plus super speed. Although I get it. It's basically an artificial mechanic help contend with the the OW speed. Also good to avoid being pulled into battle repeatedly. But it is abused way too much with counter tags and tagging AI fleets. A lone hunter can keep a group of a dozen guys occupied for hours and get away after killing a trader in visual range of your capital port.

The biggest problem is the RoE. A player slightly out of a circle needs to turn around and enter farther behind slower pursuers. A player with a nation port in view might not receive aid in time even with those 12 guys sitting right there unable to enter and help him.

Tag circle is fine, but give another bigger circle that all players around have a choice of joining. I mean huge like draw distance. Even give players outside of it the ability to join during the whole battle. The edge would take about an hour of sailing in battle instance to make it to the middle anyways. Split the circle in half between the tagged/tagger and joiners have to join on the edge of their half. Perhaps a special little join circle right in front of a national port that members of that nation can join from. All that and I'd be happy to keep invis/super speed. Hell even make it longer. Although no super speed of of AI's or counter tags. 

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56 minutes ago, Skully said:

How can somebody just sitting still be consider a mechanic? Let alone a wonky mechanic? He is just wasting time.

Because by the time you make the first, initial, engagement, and nothing joins after 3 minutes, nothing was in range to help out. it's an MMO. ganking happens. The fact that you can camp on an exact battle pos. (f11 coords) and therefore get to an enemy you were never supposed to get to, is a wonky mechanic.

Can you describe to me how you would see the future of pvp? And where do you see it happening? Not in national waters anymore, thats for sure. So then where is the reason for players to actively LEAVE their national waters?

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