Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Simon Cadete

Why did players leave?

Recommended Posts

Slim Jimmerson    131

Lack of content. RVR  is the worse offender, when it should be 1/3rd of the game (RVR, PVP, and everything else) Its barely 5% no one wants to touch.

Fix RVR and there's content to keep people engaged between patches, without it PVP dies, and the game goes into hibernation until update.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fox2run    493
9 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is a guide to early access games. http://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

You also probably read this warning from Valve itself
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more

And you have probably read this

Why Early Access?“Sea Trials is a long age of sail tradition. Captains of that time had a chance to test their vessel and provide feedback to the Admiralty on what needs to be changed to make the ship perform better. Extensive sea trials are required by the Admiralty to fully test if the ships in the game are seaworthy and ready for fighting.”

You volunteered for this and were warned in advance.
We promised experimentation as we need to search for the best nuclear materials in the complete unknown to find the right mixture. To do so we must have a lot of drastic changes and experiments. Such approach works best for the game and for our future games in this setting. Such approach might not work for you though and we understand that. But you should not have bought an early access version then. You knew what you were getting into.

There are people who probably would never understand captains who sometimes sailed into a complete unknown without even knowing where they going. There people who won't understand scientists who tried crazy combinations without knowing what they will get to find most of the current chemicals and substances. They would prefer a safe trip on white star line to a trip on Santa Maria. Early access is not for them. They should stand aside and wait for release. 

 

You are plain right very, very rude right now. Many of us have used considerably amount of time to come with feedback, solutions troubleshooting etc. If you do not cater more about your customers than this, you can take your lousy product and wipe you a...

I'm so done with Game Labs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sea Fox    33
1 hour ago, admin said:

Based on veteran hours we have no problem retaining veteran players if they start pvp and rvr.
We have problems converting new players to veteran players. 

Game needs safe zones. Like real safe zones that will sustain a new guy until rank right below captain, but to make captain they have to go out into the "real world" of PVP and RVR.

Missions in safe zone should be scenario style missions (see Age of Empires)

* Mission : accompany trade ship to Port. (Objective : trade ship must not sink or be captured) player spawns into mission with trader and attackers

* Mission : support for battle in progress. (Objective : sink all enemy ships)

* Mission : retrieve ship captured by pirates (Objective : bring ship back with minimal hull damage and bring pirate crew to justice. Demast ship!!)

* Mission : retrieve ship captured by pirates at all cost. (Objective : capture ship by boarding)

* Mission : escape! (Objective out run your attackers and escape!) Player spawns into mission mid battle with damage to his sails and minimum repair kits.

All these and more could be set up as teaching missions to prepare players for the unforgiving pvp world and help graduate players to higher experiences

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Lust    481
5 hours ago, JG14_Cuzn said:

Unfortunately you cannot have a game in alpha for 3 years and expect the excitement to continue.

I don't even think its so much about the excitement but replayability.... The game is great but lacking in content and the only thing making up for it and having high replayability factor is pvp. So what happens if you add no new content and make everything slower / grindier instead and make the game about pve to progress entirely? Go figure. I don't want the game to be easy mode and ships free like before wipe but there isn't only black and white.

Edited by Captain Lust

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
54 minutes ago, shaeberle84 said:

 

90% of sail battles ended in a draw. The captains got their reward anyway.

 

What reward did they get? Admiral Byng was court martialled and shot for an inconclusive battle. Since then most british captains fought to victory or loss of the ship and never rank. 

We understand that you want us to give our participation trophies. But we have not decided our position on the participation trophies because they promote bad behavior annulling our reward systems for actually winning. + Even World of warcraft does not give rewards if you don't kill an NPC or a player. There are no partial kills even in WOW.

PS. Legends will have partial rewards for damage (effort) because legends will be impossible to exploit. Here we don't know how to close exploits in pvp as battles can be arranged. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
18 minutes ago, fox2run said:

You are plain right very, very rude right now. Many of us have used considerably amount of time to come with feedback, solutions troubleshooting etc. If you do not cater more about your customers than this, you can take your lousy product and wipe you a...

I'm so done with Game Labs.

 

you are one of those people who only reserve the right for direct criticism for themselves. Such people are not welcome here as we don't tolerate double standards and demand forum members to treat everyone equally. You won't be missed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
3 minutes ago, Batman said:

Wow you really have to stop comparing this game to other games, which are actually successfull.

majority of games don't give participation trophies. eve/wow/many others. in fact i can't name a single mmo that give xp or money if you did not kill an enemy. We had this effort rewards but they were exploited. Thus we chose a proven way because everyone else (every other mmo designer) have already figured it out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Batman    239

So do you want your game to be like the majority of games? Or do you want your game to be unique and interesting?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
2 minutes ago, Batman said:

So do you want your game to be like the majority of games? Or do you want your game to be unique and interesting?

Do you want your car to use all experience all other carmakers accumulated? Or you want your car to ignore all safety standards learned by 100s of years of driver deaths? 

We tried a unique effort xp system and it did not work because exploits supposedly ruined it for those who believed they were getting an advantage. Now the most complaints about no rewards don't come from new players. New pve players quickly figure out that you just sink the ship and get all rewards you want.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peter Goldman    1,205
1 minute ago, admin said:

Do you want your car to use all experience all other carmakers accumulated? Or you want your car to ignore all safety standards learned by 100s of years of driver deaths? 

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/

 

Chronicles of Elyria is the game that abandoned all of the most typical and annoying parts and mechanics of MMO games. New interesting solutions and methods and mechanics. They didn't want to follow all other typical MMO games. They wanted to fix all of these games common issues and bottlenecks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
2 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/

 

Chronicles of Elyria is the game that abandoned all of the most typical and annoying parts and mechanics of MMO games. New interesting solutions and methods and mechanics. They didn't want to follow all other typical MMO games. They wanted to fix all of these games common issues and bottlenecks.

 

yes and we have many innovative mechanics in gameplay too (for the age of sail games). But xp for kills is a safety measure and i am sure most MMOs learnt that the hard way. Just like inability to talk to enemies. Both these features create a flood of support tickets to work and investigate and we do sort and work on all of them. No xp for partial damage = no farming = no tickets = more time for development. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skully    1,009
12 minutes ago, admin said:

majority of games don't give participation trophies. eve/wow/many others. in fact i can't name a single mmo that give xp or money if you did not kill an enemy. We had this effort rewards but they were exploited. Thus we chose a proven way because everyone else (every other mmo designer) have already figured it out.

Okay, insurance it is then https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/212726885-Insurance

In essence it boils down to the same thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dragonfire    113

You have a large problem converting new to veteran players partly if not mainly due to the fact Veteran PVP at all cost players are hammering them day after day.

Have a group of pirate players on the USA coast every day from a free port north of Capital hammering new guys trying to trade to afford a ship same 4 guys daily.

Every time they are hitting the new players and constant 4-1 hammering them. Try to deal with them they run wasting many game hours chase chase chase.

You have certain clans from 2 nations hitting new players day after day the outcome is they don't return and get fed up with it.

Main problem has been for awhile the max rank PVP gods in these clans don't have a brain in their heads doing this. 

One other main problem letting ppl build ports in free ports by capitals they occupy them with PVP veterans and hammer the new guys when they know the main nation pop is not online.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hodo    2,248
32 minutes ago, admin said:

Here is a guide to early access games. http://store.steampowered.com/earlyaccessfaq/

You also probably read this warning from Valve itself
Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development. Learn more

And you have probably read this

Why Early Access?“Sea Trials is a long age of sail tradition. Captains of that time had a chance to test their vessel and provide feedback to the Admiralty on what needs to be changed to make the ship perform better. Extensive sea trials are required by the Admiralty to fully test if the ships in the game are seaworthy and ready for fighting.”

 

I cut the bravado to get to the point of your post. 

We all know this is "Early Access" but that doesnt change the fact that almost a year and half ago you had a very defined guideline for the way things were going to go, how they were being developed and when we could roughly expect them.   And you were good at sticking to that guide.  But you deviated from that about 12 months ago.  It has since been down hill.   

Your changes have no reasoning behind them and even less actual testing.  You push out things and then retract them or just flat out throw them out without adjusting or even giving a chance to test things.   This is not how Early Access testing is done.   If you want us to test things, actually let us test things, dont just throw things out there, and then yank them without even listening to the community that says they are ok, but need adjusted.

The idea of the marks was good, it just needed adjustment but instead you yanked conquest marks and threw them out, then through in this horrid victory mark system.... which isnt any better.   You launched 10.0 with the idea that 1st rates would be more rare... yet they are more common now after your recent changes then they were previously.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
5 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

https://chroniclesofelyria.com/

 

Chronicles of Elyria is the game that abandoned all of the most typical and annoying parts and mechanics of MMO games. New interesting solutions and methods and mechanics. They didn't want to follow all other typical MMO games. They wanted to fix all of these games common issues and bottlenecks.

 

and even then - i have not seen any indication that they give partial xp for an incomplete kill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Lust    481
3 hours ago, Slamz said:

gets old pretty quick for most people

It wouldn't get old for me if i didn't have to grind pve to outfit my ship properly and could actually find other players in OW.... just saying. But yeah for the average player you're right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Skully    1,009
2 minutes ago, admin said:

and even then - i have not seen any indication that they give partial xp for an incomplete kill. 

WoWs, WoT, ah no, that might be left better for Legends.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
Just now, Hodo said:

  You launched 10.0 with the idea that 1st rates would be more rare... yet they are more common now after your recent changes then they were previously.   

You don't have data to support your theory. I have. Their number has not changed for dedicated organized players (so called hardcore crowd). But their number has dropped significantly for the average players. (which was the goal of the patch = which was in retrospect the bad goal (to listen to hardcore crowd). Because as @maturin said once - 90% of feedback now is focused on getting your own chance to win bigger. 

Since this realization we are now focusing on our own vision and will ignore feedback catering to narrow groups of players. For example - invisibility will be removed. It was purely a solo hunter feature for people hunting near capitals. Who does not play anyway even after he got it. With new reinforcement fleets that feature must be removed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hodo    2,248
16 minutes ago, admin said:

majority of games don't give participation trophies. eve/wow/many others. in fact i can't name a single mmo that give xp or money if you did not kill an enemy. We had this effort rewards but they were exploited. Thus we chose a proven way because everyone else (every other mmo designer) have already figured it out.

EVE doesnt use an XP system at all, so you can throw that out.   And it doesnt give cash rewards for PVP victories either... T-Totally different game there.

WoW, as in the World of Warcraft, actually did give rewards for RvR participation losses.   But again comparing this game to WoW is like comparing Youtube to Netflix.   

 

11 minutes ago, admin said:

Do you want your car to use all experience all other carmakers accumulated? Or you want your car to ignore all safety standards learned by 100s of years of driver deaths? 

We tried a unique effort xp system and it did not work because exploits supposedly ruined it for those who believed they were getting an advantage. Now the most complaints about no rewards don't come from new players. New pve players quickly figure out that you just sink the ship and get all rewards you want.

Actually the auto industry would ignore all that data if it werent for the National Highway Safety Commission.  Fun fact....

Ford, GM, and Chrysler all said the 3 point seat belt, that is found in all cars today, was to expensive to develop back in the 1960s... and refused to put them in their vehicles.   Volvo designed the 3 point seat belt and did it with very little actual cost and gave away the design to everyone for free. 

<-15 year automotive technician/parts adviser, Volvo Certified Technician, and Chrysler Master Parts Adviser.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Captain Lust    481
3 hours ago, Peter Goldman said:

In popular MMO games you can buy legendary weapons for cash or other currency. I have 15m gold right now and probably another 30-50m gold worth in assets. I can't find Planking books and some other skill books for myself. No one is selling them, I can't loot them in PvE because of RNG fortuna. Any advice for me? Thanks.

This is pretty much my experience, too. And then people come up giving me this "uhhh ohhh but you know good items should be rare" bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
1 minute ago, Hodo said:

 

Ford, GM, and Chrysler all said the 3 point seat belt, that is found in all cars today, was to expensive to develop back in the 1960s... and refused to put them in their vehicles.   Volvo designed the 3 point seat belt and did it with very little actual cost and gave away the design to everyone for free. 

<-15 year automotive technician/parts adviser, Volvo Certified Technician, and Chrysler Master Parts Adviser.

 

Yes - but it was a belt :) improved but a belt someone invented long ago.

if we find a way to eliminate farming we will get it back. We want to promote heroic deeds.

 

PS I agree with eve comment. It indeed allows you to level up titan and buy a titan without ever exiting a station. Or in fact without ever logging in (once they implemented longer queues)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
admin    27,916
2 minutes ago, amplify said:

Lol this is an easy one: devs don't listen > players leave simple as that

what happens if devs listen too much?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
fox2run    493
26 minutes ago, admin said:

you are one of those people who only reserve the right for direct criticism for themselves. Such people are not welcome here as we don't tolerate double standards and demand forum members to treat everyone equally. You won't be missed.

The thing is, Im a customer who bought a playable product that now is totally unplayable. You destroyed MY product. And now you blame US - the customers! Every suggestion down the line favoured PvP and easy playability. But every patch made it more and more impossible to find the fun factor in this game. Read suggestion, adapt. You are messing with the wrong guys here, mate. Blaming customers equal you own downfall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×