Why did players leave?

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, z4ys said:

The place where nobody can force someone to do something is called pve server. Pvp is always connected to forcing people. 

How many fights do you will get when you ask your opponent if he wants to fight you? I tell you it leads to boredom.

Nobody wants even fight because we all want to win. It's called self-preservation instinct.

If someone can't handle loss in a game he shouldn't play a game were loss is a big part of the game.

 

Wrong.

1.

The PvE Server is useless and a Trainwreck. Because it excludes any Kind of PvP. Has no Existant PvE Content. And Cuts out the one Properly Working Part which is RvR entirely.

Hence hardly anyone. Not even if the PvE Players go to the PvE Server.

2.

That one is a Joke Question. You get just as many Fights as when you dont ask your opponent if he wants to fight you.

Because another Player which assumes he can Win will Fight you if you ask him. Another Player you just Rape cause he cant win anyways is not a Fight to begin with.

Are you the Type to call it a Fight when 5 People who are trained for Fighting Gang up on a Random Person on the Steet and Beat him up ?  

3.

Precisely. Because in this Game there is no PvP. Calling this Ganking and Griefing Server an PvP Server is a Joke. 

This Game has no Open World PvP right now. It only has Open World RPKing and Griefing.

Because for PvP Fights to happen. You need to give an Objective for which 2 Opposing Sides actually come together with the Intention of Fighting.

And currently the only Objective in this Game is the Ports which however require Massive Fleets.

On OW there is Zero Objectives to actually Fight over.

You say the sides care about Winning.

But what do you actually Win if you take 3 guys and Rape some Random Frigate ? You feeling Proud after that rubbish ?

What reason has the other Person to even bother Fighting ?

The moment you tagged him his Ship was lost. I for my part by now just Quit the Game if it happens because I know the Result anyways and are not interested in waiting the 10-20 minutes for it.

If you actually want Fights. Then the PvP Server is clearly the Wrong Place for you. And there is no Place for you in this Game right now.

Because there is no Fights in this Game. And there is nothing to Fight over except for the Large Clans who can Fight over Ports

4.

In Short you dont care if everyone just Leaves the Game

You think that everyone but the Hardcore RPKs and Griefers can leave the Game even if it means your sitting on the Server with 200 or 300 People

Thats a Fair Opinion. I wont argue with it. But I fear you wont have with the Game for long. Because the Game Servers will be Dead soon after.

You See Mate.

a bit less than 2 Years Ago. When I Played this Game with our Clan. We had a Reinforcement Zone on every Single National Port.

We had 2000-3000 Players Online during the Daytimes. And if you wanted to PvP you would Sail to the Free Ports and it would take like 5 minutes to Find someone to Battle it out with.

Not some Random Guy which drives his Stock 5th Rate Frigate and which you just Rape for no Reason and with him never having any Chance to do anything anyways.

But some other PvP Player who is actually interested in having a Fight with you.

 

 

 

Your making a very Basic Mistake of assuming RPKs and Griefers to be PvPers.

But they are not.

 

PvPers have Fun in Fighting other Players. And for that they need Enemies and a working Economy where they can easily Acquire Equipment.

Thats why PvPers usually will not Hit on PvE Players and not Hit on New Players. Because they want the New Players to stay and to learn the Game so they become actual Enemies that they can Fight. And they want the PvE Players to keep the Economy Running so they can Buy Ships and Upgrades etc Cheaply without farming alot.

 

RPKs and Griefers are the thing that you just said which you said. (which is by the way the best Proof that your not an PvPer but just another Griefer)

They dont care about a Fight. They want to Win over others. Their Fun is the Frustration of others. They are not interested in a Fight at all. In opposite they dont want to actually have a Fight. They want a Victim. Thats why they Hate Safezones. And why they will Attack New Players and Drive around in Ganking Squads to Kill Random Players.

 

The Problem is.

When RPKs and Griefers are not kept under control.

New Players dont get a Foot into the Game. They just get Raped and leave.

And PvE Players hate RPKs and Griefers like the Pest and will be the first to leave as well.

 

And this actually results in the PvPers leaving as well.

Because PvPers want to Fight. And without the PvE Players Ships become expensive. And they dont get new Enemies. Meaning they get Annoyed and Bored cause they have to take over the Farming usually done by the PvE Players and because they dont find Opponents.

 

 

Its People like you. Which Killed PvP on this Game

Because nobody Plays as Victim. So if the Game forces it. People just dont Play.

As easy as that.

 

Thats why unlike back then. When each National Port had a Safezone. And when we got about 2000 People online at all times.

You now got 400-500 People Online during Primetime.

[Landsman]

7 hours ago, z4ys said:

The place where nobody can force someone to do something is called pve server. Pvp is always connected to forcing people. 

How many fights do you will get when you ask your opponent if he wants to fight you? I tell you it leads to boredom.

Nobody wants even fight because we all want to win. It's called self-preservation instinct.

If someone can't handle loss in a game he shouldn't play a game were loss is a big part of the game.

This should be the info text for creating a character on the PvP server. I like safe zones for the sake of new players and all but high ranked players hiding in them to carebear exclusively is hello kittying sickening. Why do we have a PvE server at all?!? I mean what's the point to have it running when most PvE players play on the PvP server anyways? I also read the comment that max rank doesnt warrant PvP skill - well, guess what a**hole, if you keep grinding bots in the green zone you won't ever get better at PvP. The max rank simply indicates that you had enough time to learn and understand the game and combat mechanics.

[Thonys]

hi, (well it counts for every server)

players are waiting 

not leaving

i always have to wait until i can play it again ...

it called:  real live waste of time  short:  RLwot  (trademark)

people do leave because they have to eat...or have to do stuff, nothing else, if you think they are leaving because the game is bad, that thought is in your mind...

 

also, bad reviews is always a result of impatient people with a short memory, and a lot of a strange kind of childish behavior ...i call them the not readers, short :NRs (trademark)

conclusion: the NRs and the RLwoters are in the alpha state always huge, and in his own way always a problem...a problem what dissolve after a while...if the game develops in a fast pace, something this game is a good example off. 

you cant say we haven't seen it all...:0 over the years

example: after 15 years...EVE..(and they have cargo holds, and ammo holds, something we do not have ...yet,...,i am  sure that will come soon  (TM) to,..or not ,..we will see  )

fact: The  NRs is Huge in this game, something that will be addressed in the next patch.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Thonys

[z4ys]

On 2.11.2017 at 7:24 AM, Sunleader said:

...

I would call @Liq a PvP player. He likes to duel. He likes to fight even fights etc. He is now giving the game a break beside the tournament. Why because nobody on this server is interested in even fights. Even implies a chance around 50% to win or lose. The majority of people is not ready to lose a ship when they hit the sail button nor to accept a fight with less than around 80% win chance.

You have a pointof view how you see pvp.

I tell you i have a different point of view.

Its a sandbox we are all free to have different point of views. Your place might be the carezone. Doing pve and waiting for the one guy that shows up and that you want to fight. You might write him. "Attack me i wont call reinforcments lets have a nice fight". He may accepet or you keep waiting.

For my part. I press sail and i am ready to eat or be eaten. I am ready to accept whatever crosses my path.

Edited November 4, 2017 by z4ys

[Hethwill]

 

[Liq]

On 2.11.2017 at 7:24 AM, Sunleader said:

Precisely. Because in this Game there is no PvP.

well no there is... its just that it keeps getting harder to find as in hours wasted doing nothing and that once you won vs someone he will likely not want to fight you again.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Liq

[Hodo]

8 hours ago, Thonys said:

example: after 15 years...EVE..(and they have cargo holds, and ammo holds, something we do not have ...yet,...,i am  sure that will come soon  (TM) to,..or not ,..we will see  )

 

Actually, EVE doesnt have separate ammo holds from the cargo hold.   Some ships have a bonus for ammo capacity. 

[Sunleader]

12 hours ago, z4ys said:

I would call @Liq a PvP player. He likes to duel. He likes to fight even fights etc. He is now giving the game a break beside the tournament. Why because nobody on this server is interested in even fights. Even implies a chance around 50% to win or lose. The majority of people is not ready to lose a ship when they hit the sail button nor to accept a fight with less than around 80% win chance.

You have a point of you how you see pvp.

I tell you i have a different point of view.

Its a sandbox we are all free to have different point of views. Your place might be the carezone. Doing pve and waiting for the one guy that shows up and that you want to fight. You might write him. "Attack me i wont call reinforcments lets have a nice fight". He may accepet or you keep waiting.

For my part. I press sail and i am ready to eat or be eaten. I am ready to accept whatever crosses my path.

 

The Problem is. That with this you belong to a really small Niche of Players.

And this system is self destructive for a Game. Because the older the Game gets the more established the old Players rule.

Leaving new Players with no way to make a stand. And thus leaving because they simply have no chance to ever get a foot on the ground against the experienced Vets with their Shipyards and combat experience.

Thats why this type of Game dies incredible fast.

 

 

 

And there was no need to write anything back then.

Free Ports were like an unofficial PvP zone. If you Sailed towards someone in a Warship. He most of the time turned around. No words needed.

PvPers and especially Groups usually just ignored Players that would not stand a chance anyways.

 

But more Importand.

Players could play in relative safety.

Some never came to the Freeports.

 

 

 

 

See Mate.

Does it make a difference for you if the Player is not in the Game or is in the Game but you cant Attack him?

 

Yes it does.

Because if hes not there at all. It means Lising something is much harder for everyone cause stuff is extremely expensive.

If he is there and you cant attack him.

You have not a Single target less.

But he runs the economy and makes it cheaper for others to get Ships for PvP and makes it less frustrating to lose something as its cheaper to replace.

 

PvE Players being there means that the PvP Players can fight more often.

The reason why by now a Player has to Pay like 3 Million for a 1st Rate.

Is because the PvE Players are gone. And with that PvP also goes down. Cause who wants to lose a Ship for which he had to farm Missions for Hours to afford it.

 

If this Game wants to Survive you wont get around it to give PvE Players an Secure Area.

 

[Thonys]

15 hours ago, Hodo said:

Actually, EVE doesnt have separate ammo holds from the cargo hold.   Some ships have a bonus for ammo capacity. 

well ..

the galllente miasmos is a trader vessel specialized in trading huge bulk of ore

it has a dedicated ore hold of 42.000 m3 (mastery 2)

and a goods and ammo hold of standard 550 m3 for ammo and other commodities

if you translate it to NA is would look like ,..a logs cargo hold of 4000m3 (Indiaman)and 50 m3 ammo hold 

in the age of sail all ships had a wooden wall in the ship under the waterline where they stack the gunpowder in a boxed  sandbox separate from the normal bulk cargo hold for safety reason (fires and sudden accidents )

also that room was free of rats and stagged the cheese there also:)

behind the wooden wall, they stacked the powder.in the powder room

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Thonys

[Macjimm]

38 minutes ago, Thonys said:

well ..

..... stacked the powder.

 

So thats why everyone  left?

When I look at the numbers it appears that the population is pretty steady.  With the exception of a honeymoon of a few thousand initially with the steam intro ... for a short time.  If I play during primetime there are many hundreds.  During the slow times a couple hundred.  And when it is really slow less than a hundred.  But it has been that way for a long time.  More or less.

[Thonys]

7 hours ago, Macjimm said:

So thats why everyone  left?

When I look at the numbers it appears that the population is pretty steady.  With the exception of a honeymoon of a few thousand initially with the steam intro ... for a short time.  If I play during primetime there are many hundreds.  During the slow times a couple hundred.  And when it is really slow less than a hundred.  But it has been that way for a long time.  More or less.

page 10 push in the right corner of the topic post included( the arrow)

sometimes you make a step on the sidewalk to explain something 

it was an example ....

and a comment on something hodo said in a comment on a comment

Edited November 3, 2017 by Thonys

[IndianaGeoff]

13 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

PvE Players being there means that the PvP Players can fight more often.

The reason why by now a Player has to Pay like 3 Million for a 1st Rate.

Is because the PvE Players are gone. And with that PvP also goes down. Cause who wants to lose a Ship for which he had to farm Missions for Hours to afford it.

 

If this Game wants to Survive you wont get around it to give PvE Players an Secure Area.

 

And sometimes PvE players learn how to fight and start doing PvP.  Also some PvE players help newbs get going who become PvP players, or at least targets.  

And I agree with your one point, why all the hate for the guy who wants to sail safely around.  He is playing the game and having fun.  Stop creating systems that force him to move or play the game in a way he hates.

Edited November 3, 2017 by IndianaGeoff

[jodgi]

5 minutes ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Stop creating systems that force him to move or play the game in a way he hates.

PVE to make ends meet is forced upon more than 90% of OW players, just sayin'...

[Hodo]

13 hours ago, Thonys said:

well ..

the galllente miasmos is a trader vessel specialized in trading huge bulk of ore

it has a dedicated ore hold of 42.000 m3 (mastery 2)

and a goods and ammo hold of standard 550 m3 for ammo and other commodities

if you translate it to NA is would look like ,..a logs cargo hold of 4000m3 (Indiaman)and 50 m3 ammo hold 

in the age of sail all ships had a wooden wall in the ship under the waterline where they stack the gunpowder in a boxed  sandbox separate from the normal bulk cargo hold for safety reason (fires and sudden accidents )

also that room was free of rats and stagged the cheese there also:)

behind the wooden wall, they stacked the powder.in the powder room

 

The Miasmos is a specialized trade ship.   But any of the combat vessels, Tristan, Rifter, Slasher, Stabber, Thrasher, Rattler, all have one cargo bay for everything.  

Now industrial ships, like the Miasmos, Prospector, Venture, Orca, all have specialized cargo bays for different tasks. 

 

And I agree we do need a dedicated magazine on each ship.  

Edited November 3, 2017 by Hodo

[IndianaGeoff]

10 hours ago, jodgi said:

PVE to make ends meet is forced upon more than 90% of OW players, just sayin'...

True.  Money to fight is a given and levels from PvE matter.  But you can get good ships from marks alone if your win ratio is high enough.

[Fargo]

10 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

And I agree with your one point, why all the hate for the guy who wants to sail safely around.  He is playing the game and having fun.  Stop creating systems that force him to move or play the game in a way he hates.

Because its a sandbox that is by definition supposed to focus on player freedom and immersion. Your artificial safety is a restriction for other players, reducing their possibilities and everyones immersion.

We dont have to tell you why you shouldnt be safe, you have to tell us why it makes sense at cost of player freedom, realism and immersion. I can understand that some people are happy just enjoying to sail their big ships, but this game is supposed to offer more and the average player expects more. You should respect that. Note that when there were not even forts, max rank took month, and a trinc was a huge ship, we had 1-2k average online and 2 EU servers were necessary.

You can do so much PvE how you want. You can do whatever you want, but so can other players! Nobody forces you to actively participate in PvP or RvR. Im fully on your side when you criticise enemy ships spawning right next to you that you couldnt even see behind the horizon when you started your mission, or similar nonesense, but artificial safety is nonesense aswell. Otherwise nobody forces you to play a game you hate. You dont get into a sandbox game and then complain about player freedom, thats either stupid or very cheeky.

[IndianaGeoff]

Hard mode this year took global to 80 players a night.  Putting in some safe zones took it back to 150.  The evidence is clear.

 

[Sir William Hargood]

2 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Hard mode this year took global to 80 players a night.  Putting in some safe zones took it back to 150.  The evidence is clear.

I have to say that the attempt to turn the game into hardcore probably appealed to less than 10% of player base and I personally uninstalled the game as a result of it. On the other hand most if not all of the resent changes by the Devs have improved the game immensely and I am back playing the game. Numbers on EU are up more than 20%. The direction of the Devs is really looking good and positive. Keep it up guys!

[Landsman]

8 hours ago, Fargo said:

 I can understand that some people are happy just enjoying to sail their big ships

Even so, why aren't they doing it on the hello kittying PvE server? I mean seriously, why would you play on the PvP server if you don't want to PvP or be attacked by other players? It's simply retarded, no matter how you look at it. Even more sad is the fact that you can have a character on PvE AND PvP server at the same time, meaning you can actually play both, but without being a carebear on the PvP server.... it's depressing.

[Landsman]

7 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Hard mode this year took global to 80 players a night.  Putting in some safe zones took it back to 150.  The evidence is clear.

It's probably only the folks from PvE server coming back...    But jokes aside, who needs players on a PvP server, when all they do is PvE? What do i as a PvP player gain from them sitting in the safe zones 24/7? They might aswell not be online for me.

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, Landsman said:

It's probably only the folks from PvE server coming back...    But jokes aside, who needs players on a PvP server, when all they do is PvE? What do i as a PvP player gain from them sitting in the safe zones 24/7? They might aswell not be online for me.

A full capital warehouse, easy access to certain goods But regarding pvp nothing in the first hand.

Edited November 4, 2017 by z4ys

[IndianaGeoff]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

It's probably only the folks from PvE server coming back...    But jokes aside, who needs players on a PvP server, when all they do is PvE? What do i as a PvP player gain from them sitting in the safe zones 24/7? They might aswell not be online for me.

It's not always about what you want.

My question to you is why ALL the PvP players don't locate in one region and beat the crap out of each other every night?

Yup, just like some players sit in safe zones... Most "PvP" players are looking for cheap kills and not fights against skilled opponents.

Edited November 4, 2017 by IndianaGeoff

[Landsman]

6 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

It's not always about what you want.

It's not about what i want. It's about the fact that it is retarded to play on the PvP server, when you are a PvE player. I just wanted to point out that those returning players you mentioned are no PvP players, if they came back for the safe zone. So them coming back to the server doesn't really matter, because they don't interact with players outside of the safe zone much... It is almost as if you had a tiny PvE server right on the PvP server.

I'm not against safe zones, quite the opposite... they are great for new players. What really grinds my gears is max rank players refusing to leave it - Why don't they just hello kitty off to the PvE server right away? It makes no sense? I actually know one of those players and asked him why he isn't playing on the PvE server instead. He replied "It's the same". The sad part is, he isn't even wrong.

6 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

My question to you is why ALL the PvP players don't locate in one region and beat the crap out of each other every night?

That location is the PvP server, mate. Otherwise we might just play NAL exclusively and never touch the vanilla game again. But with 70% of players on the server being carebears, it is actually hard to find PvP.

6 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Most "PvP" players are looking for cheap kills and not fights against skilled opponents.

This is probably true. It's part of human nature much more than looking for an even fight to prove yourself. But this is what the OW is about... unfair PvP. For the fair and balanced PvP we have NAL. But make no mistake,  some of us seek for skilled opponents, because this is the only way you get better. Trashing some carebears over and over for cheap kills won't improve your PvP game nearly as much as fighting a seasoned PvP player and learning from him and from your mistakes. All the more pity for those that chose the PvP server only to play PvE, because the only thing weaker than going for cheap and easy kills, is not trying at all in the first place. I don't hate PvE players... i just want them to be honest with themselves - if they don't want to PvP, then why not play on the PvE server? When i see 400 players online on the PvP server, then i expect at least the majority of those to look for PvP and not sit in the safe zone to PvE only.

[Jean Ribault]

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 6:55 AM, Landsman said:

Even so, why aren't they doing it on the hello kittying PvE server? I mean seriously, why would you play on the PvP server if you don't want to PvP or be attacked by other players? It's simply retarded, no matter how you look at it. Even more sad is the fact that you can have a character on PvE AND PvP server at the same time, meaning you can actually play both, but without being a carebear on the PvP server.... it's depressing.

 

17 hours ago, Landsman said:

It's not about what i want. It's about the fact that it is retarded to play on the PvP server, when you are a PvE player. I just wanted to point out that those returning players you mentioned are no PvP players, if they came back for the safe zone. So them coming back to the server doesn't really matter, because they don't interact with players outside of the safe zone much... It is almost as if you had a tiny PvE server right on the PvP server.

I'm not against safe zones, quite the opposite... they are great for new players. What really grinds my gears is max rank players refusing to leave it - Why don't they just hello kitty off to the PvE server right away? It makes no sense? I actually know one of those players and asked him why he isn't playing on the PvE server instead. He replied "It's the same". The sad part is, he isn't even wrong.

That location is the PvP server, mate. Otherwise we might just play NAL exclusively and never touch the vanilla game again. But with 70% of players on the server being carebears, it is actually hard to find PvP.

This is probably true. It's part of human nature much more than looking for an even fight to prove yourself. But this is what the OW is about... unfair PvP. For the fair and balanced PvP we have NAL. But make no mistake,  some of us seek for skilled opponents, because this is the only way you get better. Trashing some carebears over and over for cheap kills won't improve your PvP game nearly as much as fighting a seasoned PvP player and learning from him and from your mistakes. All the more pity for those that chose the PvP server only to play PvE, because the only thing weaker than going for cheap and easy kills, is not trying at all in the first place. I don't hate PvE players... i just want them to be honest with themselves - if they don't want to PvP, then why not play on the PvE server? When i see 400 players online on the PvP server, then i expect at least the majority of those to look for PvP and not sit in the safe zone to PvE only.

 

Shortsighted, and openly selfish, mate.  I won't argue with you because you will never see it.  This kind of venom is the reason why I continue to see people popping up on the PVE server saying they're done with the PVP server.  You will never see it, but this is one of the big reasons why people quit this game or your server.  Try being more tolerant of others' playstyles and you will see this game flourish more.  IndianaGeoff is spot on.

[Fargo]

40 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Shortsighted, and openly selfish, mate.  I won't argue with you because you will never see it.  This kind of venom is the reason why I continue to see people popping up on the PVE server saying they're done with the PVP server.  You will never see it, but this is one of the big reasons why people quit this game or your server.  Try being more tolerant of others' playstyles and you will see this game flourish more.  IndianaGeoff is spot on.

If anything you guys are selfish trying to restrict everyone just in favour of your personal niche playstyle. Nobody wants to restrict your PvE gameplay, you can do whatever you want. That you feel restricted without noob protection isnt other peoples problem. So please stop talking about toleranz.

Its ridiculous how you guys avoid all argumentation. How dare you to claim that rising numbers would prove anything regarding safezones. How can you u ignore that there were thousands of players enjoying NA without anything like that? I guess that these left is evidence that safezones are necessary too?! When you cant explain why that is, its highly unlikely to be true. "The game will die without safezones", thats basically youre whole "argumentation".

NA is supposed to provide a dynamic world and maximum freedom. If anyone would care about logic, safe zones would never have come up as an idea. If protection of new players is necessary, what should require evidence, keeping battles open for the defender would only be one much more reasonable option, atleast leading to player interaction. 

 

@Landsman You both should get a way from this PvE vs PvP point of view. The average player is a healthy mix of everything. PvP server is a misleading name, its just the normal, not PvP restricted, server. People expect more than specific PvP or PvE content. Its a big difference to sink someone for fun, or to protect an important trader, to weaken an enemy nation, to distract the enemy for tactical purposes, to keep your waters safe, to collect a bounty, etc.