Remove/nerf skillbooks

[Duncan McFail]

2 hours ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

My problem is the rarity. The more bonuses the better to separate your ship from others and help make you more unique. Would be nice to have them available on the shop and through pvp. It's just something else that keeps you from being viable in pvp. Same with the slot unlock system. 

[z4ys]

1 hour ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

Make something like a skill tree. By deciding about a certain role you unlock certain skills. 

No need for drops and stupid pve grinding

Possible to avoid stacking certain imba combos by not allowing that combo

No alt farming issue

For example atm we can pick certain player perks. These perks get summarized to merchant, privateer, navy officer, shipwright.

Privateer could include prepared + Carronade master + controlled.

While navy officer could be: prepared + reduced ship repair costs at port + rigging specialist

 

By picking such role: navy officer could unlock the stillbooks: treaties about proper cargo distribution, expert carpenter etc.

But Nassau boarders could be  forbidden.

Edited August 31, 2017 by z4ys

[Skully]

41 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

and through pvp

The problem is "empowering the victor" which is the current trend. If that continues you can kiss the player base goodbye as casuals won't stand a chance. (See my first argument.)

Edited August 31, 2017 by Skully
what is a post without at least 1 link...

[Captain Lust]

1 hour ago, qw569 said:

It's not a problem.

If someone gets more and more books, then some of his books he will sell in the shop.

And other players can buy them.

At least in theory. But in reality the good books are way too rare and combine that with inflation / gold being more and more worthless have fun buying your books from other players. Even a few weeks ago when i stopped playing people didn't want to sell the upgrades and if there was one the price was ridiculous and the upgrade instantly sold. If i check in MT ( i assume its similar in other capitals ) and check the book section of the shop there is only garbage being sold. In other ports the only book being sold everywhere is the infamous "boatswain"...

Edited August 31, 2017 by Captain Lust

[Duncan McFail]

17 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Make something like a skill tree. By deciding about a certain role you unlock certain skills.

To me having to choose a role limits you a lot. Currently your ship/mod/perk setup defines your role. You can swap that up at anytime. If I need to go to a 1st rate port battle I want a Santi focusing on armor thickness/hp, reload, and repair. After that's done I want to make a trade run so I'll need an Indiaman focusing on speed with more Indiaman's in fleet. Then it's time to solo hunt traders using a Surprise focusing on speed and boarding. After pissing off another player he challenges me to a 4th rate duel and I want to fight him in Wapen focusing on turning and armor thickness. Maybe some other clan mates want to go OW pvp against a group of heavy hitters and I want to come in a Buc focusing on boarding and speed. I like the freedom of choice without being cornered into a dedicated role. I like the perk system, but I wish there was more variety of perks available. We've taken several steps back since that system was introduced. Players crave fame and being unique. Anything that helps that happen is a good change and anything else is a step in the wrong direction. 

27 minutes ago, Skully said:

The problem is "empowering the victor" which is the current trend. If that continues you can kiss the player base goodbye as casuals won't stand a chance. (See my first argument.)

There is no empowering the victor. Books being available in shop and through pvp would just be other means to get them instead of forcing us to pve to get them. And no offense but you don't have to link other quotes and topics in every single post. Unless you're just doing it to get under people's skin. In that case working as intended. 

[Skully]

2 minutes ago, Duncan McFail said:

There is no empowering the victor. Books being available in shop and through pvp would just be other means to get them instead of forcing us to pve to get them.

So if my ship gets sunk in PvP I stand some chance of getting a book?

[z4ys]

Just now, Duncan McFail said:

To me having to choose a role limits you a lot. Currently your ship/mod/perk setup defines your role. You can swap that up at anytime. If I need to go to a 1st rate port battle I want a Santi focusing on armor thickness/hp, reload, and repair. After that's done I want to make a trade run so I'll need an Indiaman focusing on speed with more Indiaman's in fleet. Then it's time to solo hunt traders using a Surprise focusing on speed and boarding. After pissing off another player he challenges me to a 4th rate duel and I want to fight him in Wapen focusing on turning and armor thickness. Maybe some other clan mates . 

Too much "I want" you can't have everything and that's one of NA biggest mistakes. Because we are all merchants, hunter,  Pb fighters, solo player and team player at the same time and that's because we are lazy the game can't do just one thing right.

Freedom is our doom. Sandbox isn't working in a world full of instances. We need restriction. We need to choose. We need defined rolls. We need rules.

[Skully]

2 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Too much "I want" you can't have everything and that's one of NA biggest mistakes. Because we are all merchants, hunter,  Pb fighters, solo player and team player at the same time and that's because we are lazy the game can't do just one thing right.

Freedom is our doom. Sandbox isn't working in a world full of instances. We need restriction. We need to choose. We need defined rolls. We need rules.

Or freedom and proper rewarding. Why can't we be all of that and let the game give?

[Duncan McFail]

13 minutes ago, Skully said:

So if my ship gets sunk in PvP I stand some chance of getting a book?

Sure. Let's say 1/2 the chance of the winner. Let's even say if their was more of them with a higher BR you could stand a greater chance of getting that book than them. I'm not a proponent of loser gets nothing. I do think winner should get more. I don't think fights should be fair in NA, but I do think systems should reward more for them. I also worry about systems that allow exploits.

15 minutes ago, z4ys said:

Too much "I want" you can't have everything and that's one of NA biggest mistakes. Because we are all merchants, hunter,  Pb fighters, solo player and team player at the same time and that's because we are lazy the game can't do just one thing right.

Freedom is our doom. Sandbox isn't working in a world full of instances. We need restriction. We need to choose. We need defined rolls. We need rules.

I love how sandbox this game is. I know there hasn't been a MMO that is a full on sandbox, but my favorites have always had many sand box elements. I like MMO's that offer as much uniqueness as possible, the ability to be famous, and a feeling of loss to your opponent. If this game had a higher population and content I could see being a good thing, but it doesn't. Players do everything right now and still don't enjoy the game. If they were limited even more into choosing to be fighters, hunters, crafters, or merchants I just don't see that helping the situation. The problems I see now is we are being herded into pve and the game's turned into a huge boring time sink. 

[mikawa]

7 hours ago, Jœrnson said:

Per se skill books are fine. Finding skill books is bad.

We don't need this "sail out in cutter and fight AI then you might have 1.5% chance to loot one" instead we need OW wrecks, maybe Treasure fleets and enemy ports where we can get those.

[Fargo]

1 hour ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

Dont you think that if its worth to sink your own ships for upgrades/skills, something seems to be seriously broken?!

Why did you include cheap "throwaway" ships?! There is not a single reason for that. If you want to improve the situation for new players, just increase their income! Valuable ships are required to deny trolling, such abuses, for fun and balanced PvP in general.

[PIerrick de Badas]

11 hours ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

Both are a problem and both are link.

If skillbook where less rare, people would get all of them and it may make the things more balance. or if bonus are more small people would'nt complain about not having them. So you have to reduce the bonus or improve the ability to get skill. Atm the difference between a pro farmer and a good player is dedtroy by skillbook what is a shame in a competitv game.

In a succesfull game, chinees farmer may come and sell skillbook to player making the game a pay to win.

Scond problem is the number of slot per ships. Having 5 slots per ship force people in a endless farm.

Why not to make slots per rank? For example you farm for the rank 5 ship. If you farm susprise it farm for essex to? 3 slots per rank and 2 slots dedicated per ship.

Or 3 slots at all making people going to farm maybe 20h per ship. It's seems enough, not to small not to big to be boring

[PongoNW]

stop listening to the same 5 idiots.

"grinding skills in order of ship type is hard" so you remove it.

Grinding skills is hard and I do not want enemies who grind their levels to be able to beat me.

so now you will fold and remove the skills so that people who do not want to play the game you have designed will be the last 5 guys off the server.

The skills are fine. Just get freaking reasonable about how long it takes to open the 5 spots on a ship.  10 000 xp per upper skill on a 5th rate is silly.

I know, no one else on the server is actually playing the game you designed. But I am, take it from me. 15 hours per skill level is silly. 

[CaptVonGunn]

Skill books make a LOT more sense then almost all the Upgrades...  Planking and Copper Plating make sense... most of the rest not so much... the Figure heads Not at All...

 

    I personally think we should have 8 skill book slots but they can never be changed unless it is a upgrade to a better version of the same skill type...  ie.. you have a Sailing skill. Then you get  better one(you have learned more about it) you swap them out.  Same for gunnery and boarding.. so if you have say the Book of Five Rings... You would NOT be able to have as another slot one of the skills that is used to make the Book.  If you are going to allow swapping out of skills(ie unlearning something) it should cost like it does with Perks

[Farrago]

I guess I'd prefer that all mods and skill books go away but understand that some (many/most?) players want them. Have each ship only be able to have one knowledge slot (resetable in port) and one permanent knowledge slot. That would stop the stacking and magic boats.

[Jean Ribault]

19 minutes ago, Farrago said:

I guess I'd prefer that all mods and skill books go away but understand that some (many/most?) players want them. Have each ship only be able to have one knowledge slot (resetable in port) and one permanent knowledge slot. That would stop the stacking and magic boats.

I lean more towards your camp than not.  I'd rather see them severely nerfed and then add a whole bunch more of them than take them away altogether though.  And I'd also like to see them become available by all means possible in the game so that it is fair for players of all calibers and across all players, e.g. casual players with time limits as well as 4 hour a day players.  Availability should be: crafting, purchase through Admiralty, RNG drops, shop availability in free ports, and maybe more.  Basically make them as plenteous as the sun in order to take away unfairness but convert it to strategy.

Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the slots decreased too, but not if they are severely nerfed.  It's the heavy stacking that has to be curtailed a bit.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Jean Ribault

[Jean Ribault]

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 6:30 AM, Sir Texas Sir said:

...Copper Plateing should not be a random drop either, that should be a BP that we can craft...

This is a good suggestion.

 

And get us some pants back into the game as rewards/drops too. ...

My God I hope you are already wearing pants when you play this game.  And if they are dropping, I think you love this game too much!

 

[Sang Noir]

I think the skill books are a good idea as they are. I support the notion that there could be more and varied. They bring at least a little bit of flavour to the game. 

They are much too rare though, especially if they are needed for modules, which in turn become way too worthy. Playing for France there are no skillbooks available anymore on the open market at the moment (in the shop). 

I strongly support the idea of the skilltree. It would be a great addition of story content. Different actions (Combat, Trade, Craft, Exploration) would unlock different new skills. 

 

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Jean de la Rochelle

[Jean Ribault]

10 minutes ago, Jean de la Rochelle said:

...

I strongly support the idea of the skilltree. It would be a great addition of story content. Different actions (Combat, Trade, Craft, Exploration) would unlock different new skills. 

 

 

 

A skilltree would be one positive move closer to a potential career mode.  +1   I would see it something like the Civ series research tree where you build upon the last thing and everything has a set of dependencies.

[Sir Texas Sir]

5 hours ago, Jean Ribault said:

 

PAINTS.....I surely will not be letting any one know if I got pants on or not...lol

[Eyesore]

Instead of a skilltree, can you not accumulate points over time?

To give an idea (it's not mine):

- When you haul a lot of cargo, you get 'experience' (points) for distance travelled and weight carried. Gradually you build up your bonus (knowledge, whatever you want to call it).

- When you fight a lot of players, your reloadingspeed goes up

- your experience gain is higher in pvp?

- Using repairs makes you more efficient over time.

- Damage done maybe give extra penetration.

- Etc.

Make enough variables, so you can't really influence the outcome if you stay true to your playing-style. You just gather a bit of experience/points/knowledge in different areas, just doing things in game?

You can also build in  negatives, so stacking wouldn't occur or lower stackable bonusses.

Gradually, your play-style-diagram would eventually resemble something of a characterbuild? Until you max everything out after three (just a number, a long time) years of playing perhaps?

Balance the styles so they have a/some counter to eachother?

Differences in actual playerbonusses compared to eachother would not be absolute. They may differ by 0.1% or 1% or 0 and max bonus. For new players that start from 0, maybe the differences will be more evenly spread out. Sure you can meet a powerfull vet, but if he meets a casual,  or a player that has weaker stats in some area, he might take some advantage?

The maxbonusses would offcourse need to be low enough to not become OP (but that's obvious).

[Hawkwood]

Remove permanent upgrades, not skill books.

[Baptiste Gallouédec]

On 31/08/2017 at 0:11 PM, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

So to avoid people farming consensual players or alts, we can only get them by farming ai? Not sure how one is worse than another ? Alt farming cost at least one of the ship or the time to cap one, so perhaps more cost or efforts/time than admiralty mission. At least players playing pvp by the rule could have a chance to get some by simply doing what they are supposed to do: sail and hunt in ow, do pvp.

-all permanent upgrades should be craftable or in admiralty

-skillbooks should also drop in pvp, maybe for an unknown random type of critical hit chosen at the start of the battle, like masts, leaks or shock. So even loosing side can have such rewards.

-knowledge slots are too slow to unlock via pvp: pvp rewards are so lame compared to pve farm. Group pvp and pb gives nearly no rewards, no slots, no books .. it s like if players doing such things were doing something wrong. Like you said, you get more by solo alt farming or empty / arranged pb or even better : farming in pve in safe zones, something is wrong in the design. > increase pvp XP rewards a lot.

- and lastly like Kierrip said, pb 25vs25 mirror pb is too rigid. strategy , good lead and discipline is of course the main factor (like it is in group vs group ow pvp) but the imbalance in knowledge and refits accès are even more blatant as the pb format force everyone in the same ship. I ve made a suggestion in that way.

 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Baptiste Gallouédec

[Skully]

11 hours ago, Baptiste Gallouédec said:

So to avoid people farming consensual players or alts, we can only get them by farming ai? Not sure how one is worse than another ?

Lets take this 1 step at a time. http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/22532-the-smoke-cast-by-man/

[Stilgar]

On 8/31/2017 at 10:19 AM, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

I do not mind some unique difficult-to-get books to reward most active players or platers interested in collecting rare books (e.g., book of five rings), but I'd like to see 90% of books available in admiralty shop and not as random loot in PvE missions), and  perhaps be a bit more accessible as far as pricing is concerned (think of casual players!). Perma modules is a more reasonable random loot. I want all the books accessible sooner rather than later, cause I like fine-tuning my ships and try different book combo's. Books are at heart of this and limited access to books makes me unhappy.

Bonuses are ok-ish and I like very much the idea of books bonuses depending on the ship rate.