Remove/nerf skillbooks

[PIerrick de Badas]

Skillbooks have been introduce to make people stay in-game by farming. As many things introduce in last patch, what seems  to work one month is not viable in mid or long term. Newcomers don't use them or at least don't care on them while beta feel forced to do unnatural stuff which is farming in pve like in random boring mmo killing rats in a cave.

Problems :

 -farming book is impossible in pvp meaning people has to farm book in pve. Reward system broken

- skillbooks are like magic loot. You have to kill mobs to loot some if you are lucky enough. RNG drop is killing balance 

- When you have been lucky, you have to farm on a single ship whatever it's boring to be able to match your opponents on the same ship. PVE is broken

- port battle force you to sail designed ship whatever you like them or not (balance between ships on sale class broken)

- old fits where far less power than actual skillbooks meaning skillbooks introduce a higher disbalance than upgrades before. Skillbooks where supposed to fix this problem but improve them. The game was at start based on skill with people having almost same ships. Now we are facing unbalance ships.

Proposals :

- reduce the power of majority skillbooks to make them an help and not a must have

- remove any dps related skillbooks to let at least the better defeat the worst. (But the worst can still escape)

- reduce slots number to not force people.to works the slots althought they already have an irl job

- bring back damage based reward instead of sink base reward

 

[PongoNW]

Skill books are fine.

[Guest]

Per se skill books are fine. Finding skill books is bad.

[Celtiberofrog]

Many upgrade & book systems have been developped & implemented, as a result these "small skill improvements" can be added on a same ship and give, when related to same skill (accuracy, reload, speed, etc...), "bigger advantages" that will make the difference in OW or in battle. Meaning the Player skill can be counterbalanced by upgrades through hours of gameplay in order to craft or find those upgrades.

I think that NA will be more attractive if mostly player skill could make the difference.

==> The issues should be:

- Basic ship differences & hability as main factors.

- Much lower effects (%) of these upgrades & books.

==> The result is a game with less requirement (necessity) of upgrade craft/research, focusing on ship crafting only (mainly), and funnier fights or huntings.

While the current upgrade/book system means the longer time spent in NA the higher are the chance for player to save their ship from sinking or being captured. 

All the past wipes have proven a player population cycle, always decreasing after each wipe, why ? one of the reason is because of the frustration to spend so many hours to get descent ships.  

[admin]

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

[Skully]

8 minutes ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

It goes a bit deeper I would say.

On Tuesday, August 22, 2017 at 2:25 PM, Skully said:

There is a weird contradictions in the discussion.

If you want to fight with upgrades, then you must spend effort to obtain them. Effort translates to (emotional) attachment and then you can no longer use them in a fight.

On Sunday, August 27, 2017 at 0:52 PM, Skully said:

I think you ran into a catch-22. You want to PvP, you need slots, for slots you need to fight, to PvP is to lose your ship, ergo you can only grind.

On Tuesday, August 29, 2017 at 8:48 AM, Skully said:

Skill does not equal slots. The best a casual can hope for when he meets a veteran is a good story.

Truly this deserves better and must be rewarded. 

Thus 

 

[qw569😳]

I counted books in shops PVP EU

• Boatswain (6-7 rates) - 2740
• Boatswain (4-5 rates) - 31
• Fireships (6-7 rates) - 2
• A Treatise on Square Sails Trim - 2
• Trim - Speed (4-5 rates) -1
• Reinforced Sails (4-5 rates)  - 1
• Mast Rake Aft - 1
• Optimized Ballast (4-5 rates) - 1

@admin

I can not understand either the books are very rare or no one does the missions.

Edited August 31, 2017 by qw569

[Kpt Lautenschlaeger]

From where I am sitting, the effect magnitude of (stacked) bonuses is the problem. I think there is a mutually reinforcing effect that does more harm than it does good:

 

Specifically, players playing for a long time...

(a) train their personal "human" skills, i.e. they get better handling their ships, knowing combat tactics, having tactical awareness, etc. --> They get better at handling their ships effectively.

(b) find/earn more ship upgrades and skills --> they have access to more effective ships

 

So we have an "effectiveness gap" between veterans and new players. As far as this is opened by (a), I'm fine with that. When you add (b), I think this can become overwhelming. The players who can pretty much park their Surprises broadside-on under my stern because they are really skilled sailors, don't need 3 stacking effects to finish me off even quicker.

 

I realise that (b) is a nice incentive to keep people playing the game. I would hazard one guess, though: if we give incentives that are "for show" (paint jobs, leader boards, titles, what have you), this will be (almost) as good as giving incentives that have palpable game effects. 

 

As usual, just my two pieces-of-eight. Discuss.  

 

Edited August 31, 2017 by Kpt Lautenschlaeger

[Vizzini]

While RNG can be good when you get lucky, it's a well known fact that people won't like the grind.

I'd make the upgrades available in the admiralty for a whopping amount of marks ofc

 

People are reluctant to put their shiny new ship out on the OW without all slots open, all BIS upgrades present and the safe and sure knowledge that there are no enemies about

[Celtiberofrog]

26 minutes ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

If bonus were lower then rarity influence will get evenly lower.

A rare book would still be a wind fall but without the current impact of necessity.

Same as craftable upgrades or books, lower bonus will entail lower impact of necissity.

This would question the utility of getting these additional features, but it would make simpler the competition between players & possibly keep their interest in playing (spending hours for simpler issues).

[Celtiberofrog]

Otherwise, this (frustration) issue might be drasticly changed, keeping the current implemented settings (in case you would not drop bonuses):

==> restaure the multiple durability of 1 ship...

Player interest would increase without any doubts since fights would become much more affordable.   

Edited August 31, 2017 by Celtiberofrog

[jodgi]

47 minutes ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

We have a (PVE) grind to win system right now. I, personally, don't like that but you could call that a matter of taste.

I wish that skill books (and all other PVE grindable things) only gave a very small boost AND/OR that they aren't rare or extremely expensive.

I you force me to choose I'd go with rarity as the bigger issue since that translates to high price and unavailability for normal players, save a few very lucky ones.

Why is it a bad thing in my subjective opinion?

Many players want competitive equimpent. Most will tolerate to work quite a bit if the outcome is guaranteed, but I suspect many feel the current RNG PVE grind lottery is so uncertain and extremely time consuming that they give up and drop out of risking their assets providing PvP content in OW. An uneccessary negative spiral, if you will.

I'm not ashamed to admit I've dropped out of it. That doesn't matter too much since I'm not in the core target audience for a mainly PvE grind sandbox environment, but still.

Signed,

A willing but apprehensive fringe OW player

[Skully]

47 minutes ago, qw569 said:

I can not understand either the books are very rare or no one does the missions.

6 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

The main problem is that to acquire them we are forced into PvE RNG grind. They all should be for sale in Admiralty. The better skill book, the more expensive it is.

The price of a skill book is purely subjective. This price can be found by letting the AI sell a very limited amount, but then everyone would go back to crying about rarity.

Simple fact: everyone wants skill books now and cheaply, because nobody wants to work for it. Yet we do have players sailing around with skill books.

However the claim of being treated unfairly hasn't been proven (yet).

Lets turn this around. Everybody starts with: "My enemy is entitled that particular skill book, if ..."

[Skully]

15 minutes ago, Celtiberofrog said:

restaure the multiple durability of 1 ship...

5 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

1 duras are fine

And we have to give those bloody historians something as well. 

 

3 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

We need to get rid of RNG luck system

Now we are getting somewhere. I hate Fortuna as much as anybody else, because she is blind to our goals and always flips the coin on the wrong side.

On 8/18/2017 at 2:22 PM, Skully said:

Now therein lies an interesting and valid point. Is obtaining Grietjes van Dijk an unreachable goal? And if so, is it because of bad RNG, lack of knowledge or lack of skill?

You'll hear no sympathy from me if it is lack of skill. Lack of knowledge needs to be addressed with information. RNG is almost always bad.

(I keep on wondering whether there is an increased drop rate from Dutch AI traders going through Bovenwinds county...)

As for through Admiralty

8 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

All of the skill books should be in Admiralty, the better book, the more expensive it should be. Simple and fair system.

On 8/27/2017 at 0:52 PM, Skully said:

The purpose of the cost is to give you a goal. The height of the goal is mostly a subjective issue.

As soon as it says subjective on anything not player controlled, it will be perceived as unfair. Like ... the RNG goddess, Fortuna.

[admin]

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

[Celtiberofrog]

23 minutes ago, Peter Goldman said:

??? No one complains about current Admiralty prices of skill books (I would say they are a bit too high now but that's the result of Combat Marks huge price increase from 1000 to 7000 gold (7x increase in price make them a bit costly). I have a fixed price of 50 combat marks, unlimited amount and goal to achieve. RNG and Fortuna? I can keep grinding for 5 months and never achieve my goal. That's a huge difference, thus moving from PvE RNG system to admiralty will be huge improvment and no one will complain.

But again we will fall into the spiral of "the longer time spent in NA the better ship you would get", meanwhile the issue here is to reduce the effects of upgrades/books and mostly rely on ship basic features in order to simplify competition & hopefully increase player interest.

[Anolytic]

10 minutes ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

What about making them all craftable, and with resources that drop in decent quantity and in more than one port?

Otherwise, make a randomly selected skillbook drop directly to your redeemables or ship hold for every 3000 damage done in PvE and for every 1000 damage done in PvP (example).

Or, like Peter said, move every single skillbook to admiralty shop, so we can grind for them without having to suffer the RNG as well.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Anolytic

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, admin said:

What is the main problem to your opinion: the skill book rarity or their bonuses?

The rarity unless you want to grind nothing but PvE to get them.  

1 hour ago, Peter Goldman said:

The main problem is that to acquire them we are forced into PvE RNG grind. They all should be for sale in Admiralty. The better skill book, the more expensive it is.

Admiralty store and maybe rewards at the end of Port Battles.  Would love to see port battle chest return with one paint and one random book/mod.  NO SHIP NOTES THOUGH.   Pretty much like the deadman chest rewards.  

 

3 minutes ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

There was nothing wrong with the PvP Marks system and I think we should go back to something but instead combine the PvP Marks and the Victory marks.  Every time you win a port battle you get a PvP/Victory mark.  Every so many PvP kills (lets say 5-10) you get the same mark, this rewards the RvR guys and the PvP guys.  You can do it as a missions rewards kinda like POTBS had PvP missions. Than have a section in the Pirates Den/Admiralty shop that has these PvP/RvR rewards.  They should be a way we can buy the books that and BP's of rare mods and ship knowledge.  Keep the PvE random drop, but come up with something we can get the same items through PvP/RvR.

And I'm sorry if the PvE Carebears are going to complain they can't get the same thing, well than they can pay for the PvP/RvR rewards like just about any other game does when you have Elite gear folks get from Elite Dungeons or PvP only content.  Every thing is still in game you just need to pay more for it for some one else to do the grind/fighting for you.

As for farming alts/others don't you have a sysetm yet in place to track this?  How about this make combat news list kills like this.

Admin killed Pirate Sir Texas Sir near Kidd's Harbor.

Than if we see you killing me over and over every hour (cause it's the only way to have the rewards) allow a report command so we can report suspected farming.

[Celtiberofrog]

6 minutes ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

Drop upgrade & book bonuses = less must-have = no alts would bother farming them 

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 8/31/2017 at 5:20 AM, Anolytic said:

What about making them all craftable, and with resources that drop in decent quantity and in more than one port?

Otherwise, make a randomly selected skillbook drop directly to your redeemables or ship hold for every 3000 damage done in PvE and for every 1000 damage done in PvP (example).

Or, like Peter said, move every single skillbook to admiralty shop, so we can grind for them without having to suffer the RNG as well.

We really should have PvE and PvP missions that are like this either by damage or kills you do you get a reward of gold/xp and than maybe a random Mod/Book.   That are certain missions are for certain rewards.  Give folks goals to do in game will add more content for players.  I know a lot of us hate the PvE grind, but some folks love it. I wouldn't mind it myself if it wasn't all based off RNG (which hates me as I tend to only get cannons and Rig Repairs).   

Copper Plateing should not be a random drop either, that should be a BP that we can craft.   Still limits you to 3 mods either way.  So should the other dorps like the pumps and such should be stuff we can craft our selves. Just add them to the Refits page.  Maybe make Copper Plating a PvP only reward to learn the BP?

And get us some paints back into the game as rewards/drops too. I would say keep this as mission/rewards drop for sure so it is something to show you did something in game.  There was a hint that ya'll where thinking of making them like ship knowledge slots once found and learned.  That would be cool, but until than why take them out of the game.  I'm tired of just about every ship looking the same plain color.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Sir Texas Sir

[qw569😳]

25 minutes ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

It's not a problem.

If someone gets more and more books, then some of his books he will sell in the shop.

And other players can buy them.

@admin could you explain me why we have 2740 of Boatswain (6-7 rates) books and only 31 of Boatswain (4-5 rates)?. Both books are not popular.

Edited August 31, 2017 by qw569

[Celtiberofrog]

6 minutes ago, Anolytic said:

Otherwise, make a randomly selected skillbook drop directly to your redeemables or ship hold for every 3000 damage done in PvE and for every 1000 damage done in PvP

Brillant idea that would convert "rare books" like "medals" (reward of combat) but I would see it reachable with XXX damage points only from PB fights (to avoid alts PvP arrangement).

This could work in case next wipe will increase PB's dynamism.

[Hawkwood]

Spending more time just sailing around and gathering resources, than actually fighting or doing something more meaningful in this poor molested "game".....

Who cares about skill books NOW and how do they get achieved.

 

[Skully]

32 minutes ago, admin said:

we would happily add skill books and other items to pvp loot if we find a way to avoid farming them on alts or friends by sinking cheap ships nonstop. 

On 8/23/2017 at 7:45 PM, Skully said:

The normalized reward could be held against the loot table for handing out upgrades and such.

Would/could this work out?

[Celtiberofrog]

 

10 minutes ago, Cortez said:

Spending more time just sailing around and gathering resources, than actually fighting or doing something more meaningful in this poor molested "game".....

Who cares about skill books NOW and how do they get achieved.

Constant outcome of most issues: NA needs systems that make it more attractive without spending hundreds of hours :

 ++ easier ship crafting (or purchase)

 ++ simpler player competition ship vs ship

 ++ easier PB generation 

This will go toward "the master key" ==> greater player population