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A complete fix to RVR


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How do we make RVR fun? Engaging? and inclusive? Here's my proposal to fixing the current state of RVR

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Remove what we know as the Port Battle Instance

There's no need for a single PB instance to decide a port. Its limited by numbers, tactics, and time. It only ever allows 25 people to be involved and the time window is extremely narrow. It has no place in NA.

A solution: Tonnage War.

Once hostilities is set for a port, the area around the port is deemed contested. A meter is displayed that will show the progress of each nation head to head.

The goal of Tonnage War is to sink more BR than the enemy. The attacker must achieve 60% total tonnage in order to take the port, and the defenders must keep them from reaching 60%.

These tonnage wars can last 3 days to a week depending on the importance of the port. In order to prevent defenders from not showing to deny tonnage to the attackers, AI ships in the area will count to a fraction of the normal BR tonnage, forcing defenders to show up or lose valuable tonnage.

This system takes off the chains from normal PBs. Allowing any ship, of any size and any clan of a nation to be directly involved with the taking or defending of a port. The clan with the most % tonnage sunk for their nation will earn the rights to the port.

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Another problem with RVR is that the progression of conquest is very chaotic. Any nation can sail across the map and take the capital port of their enemy with ease which isn't realistic or pleasing to see.

A solution: Fronts

Hostility and hostility missions can ONLY be taken and raised at the 3 nearest ports from your friendly port. What does this mean? An enemy port can ONLY be captured if its close enough to a friendly port. By limiting how far away you can take a port, natural fronts are established where players will funnel for war and conquest.

This front system is much more sensible in its limitation of distance from closest logistics, but sill gives a nation options to which direction they want to head in terms of conquest, and different ways to approach a conquest of an area while staying realistic. To prevent long range jumping like how can be done with teleport to nearest port. A maximum range of 75-100km can be set, which will mean some areas will be natural choke points due to their geography which adds to the strategy of RVR.

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The PB instance isn't useless. Its just too small scale to be a decider for a port. There is a use for the current 25v25 PB we have now.

Raids

For RVR to be completely fixed, we need to get the pirates the f#!$ out of it. The pirate nation should be the quintessential PVP oriented faction. The embodiment of clan v clan action. Without taxes from ports, the ability to craft and sell a large variety of ships, and the extra danger that comes from trading. Pirates need a way to get money and ships being the hardcore faction, but still be fun and have exclusive content. Here's how it would work.

Pirates get 3-4 single port islands on each corners of the map. These islands are permanently pirate and will serve as their homes. There are plenty of tiny non occupied islands to give every nation equal threat of pirates.

Raids will use a universal flag method with no indication of where the flag is going. The only information that is given is where the flag was pulled from. These flags can have a combat mark cost of say, 1000. The flag can then be transported to ANY national port (besides capital). Once the flag reaches the port, a port battle, now a raid will immediately open with a 5-10 minute join timer. It will be exactly how PBs are now. There are a few rewards for a successful raid.

1.Each pirate gets a sum of gold depending on the size of the port, along with some port specific trade/crafting goods.

2.A ship pool of 10-15 of random build ships is unlocked, where the pirates can pick from freely.

3.The raided port unlocks a basic outpost for each pirate involved in the PB. This will act as a den from where pirates can use their newly acquired ships to hunt in the area.

This den function will only last 3-5 days depending on the port. No building can be built, admirality can't be accessed, but basic crafting is allowed. Only ships in your fleet will be stowed there (No dock spaces) At the end of the 3-5 days the pirates can either sell off everything with 1 free teleport back to their real port, as long as they don't leave the den after the time is up, or they can sail all the acquired ships and goods back.

This is challenging and exclusive content to pirates that will make them more than just a reskinned nation. They get the utmost freedom with what they do, and with this raid system a clan of elite Pirates can still be a pain in the f#@#$&% ass to nations.....without vastly affecting the RVR balance ^_^ something I think we can all enjoy.

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Those are all the main point, this section will be dedicated to addressing comments/criticisms and I will be editing frequently.

Please keep it on topic, whether you like the idea or not and whether this will work for NA. If you have feedback/criticism, please state your reasons. Don't just give me an "oh no this will never work" Air out the problems so solutions can be made. I'll be happy to answer any questions and of course if there is anything that I missed let me know.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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1 hour ago, Hodo said:

Probably true.

Yeah, but still have to admit though that eliminating the PB instance would be good for everyone.  We've tested enough different scenarios for PB's and the shouts are getting louder and louder for eliminating these instances and going to something else entirely.

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9 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

The goal of Tonnage War is to sink more BR than the enemy. The attacker must achieve 60% total tonnage in order to take the port, and the defenders must keep them from reaching 60%.

Though I find the thoughts interesting, I assume that this can be easily abused -- what if all defenders just leave this area? Then there is nothing to sink....

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46 minutes ago, OlFson said:

Looks good, my only issue is that the tonnage war, even though we have a timeframe, might lead to attrition wars aka the bigger zerg wins.

If the defender is unable to field a force large enough to combat the attacking force then they should withdraw until such time as they have a force capable of standing a chance.

 

36 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Though I find the thoughts interesting, I assume that this can be easily abused -- what if all defenders just leave this area? Then there is nothing to sink....

72 hour timer. Once the 72 hours are over the side with the higher score would be deemed the victor. Even if this means that the only thing sunk was a cutter. This solves the null value from either the attacker or defender not showing up. I realize that the OP suggested 60% as the threshold but in cases where one side does not show up then there needs to be a way to determine the victor other than tonnage.

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10 minutes ago, Raekur said:

If the defender is unable to field a force large enough to combat the attacking force then they should withdraw until such time as they have a force capable of standing a chance.

That is my question, what if they never have a chance due to a large population mismatch?

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21 minutes ago, Raekur said:

Even if this means that the only thing sunk was a cutter.

This destroys completely the meaning of any 1st rate ship. It results in many many small battles instead of a big one. Speaking for me I would not like this ...

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So small nation are done. They will never have the numbers. Futhermore you are forcing small nations to fight each other due to the border rules, or pick on the largest nation. Its a lose lose proposition.

 Unfortunatelly I do not have good solution. I applaud you for trying to fix this, but the whole idea of conquest is fundamentally flawed right now.

I actually would like to try Devs newest idea of clan wars. It works great in EVE. It would limit RVR impact on small nations.

Edited by Comrade I Stalin
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2 hours ago, mikawa said:

Though I find the thoughts interesting, I assume that this can be easily abused -- what if all defenders just leave this area? Then there is nothing to sink....

"AI ships in the area will count to a fraction of the normal BR tonnage, forcing defenders to show up or lose valuable tonnage."

Regarding population mismatch leaving smaller nations with disadvantage

Yes smaller nations are at a disadvantage. but due to the limitation of the battle instance, a small nations 25 ship fleet will only ever see 25 other ships at a time. If a tiny nation REALLY wants to take on a large won, then they can go in with their fleet, attack enemy fleets, and once they leave battle, escape to outside to contested area where tonnage isn't counted.

Basically hit and run attacks. They may still lose their ships but if they can field enough and win the battles with them, they can take a port. 1st rates are still valuable because its the most firepower you can put into a 25v25. I'd say this is pretty fair. Without the limitations of the PB instance you can employ many more tactics that you would in a single battle.

We're choosing between a single 25v25 battle in an hour as RVR v multiple 25v25 battles over days. Any flaw with this system is much more sensible than the problems that we have with the PBs now, and are greatly outweighed by the benefits.

So far the only major flaw is pop inbalances, which can be worked around with skill and strategy, as apposed to our current system which negates ALL population and is 100% not scalable to server size, not strategically oriented, not optionally approachable, and in the words of many players, not fun, grand, or exciting in any way.

 

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Just now, Slim Jimmerson said:

Basically hit and run attacks.

Hit & Run attacks are basically a good thing -- they bring players togehter for PVP, but I don't think this should happen in an important Port Battle in that way ...

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4 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Hit & Run attacks are basically a good thing -- they bring players togehter for PVP, but I don't think this should happen in an important Port Battle in that way ...

an "important" port battle shouldn't be decided by a single 25v25 in an hour time window.

Much better to have multiple 25v25 battles over days time that the entire nation can be involved in rather than a single clan of 25 people controlling the entirety of their nations PBs on a 2000 people server, when Nation v Nation is suppose to be the biggest, baddest, most exciting content in the game

 

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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14 minutes ago, Aegir said:

Isn't the tonnage war extremely similar to the current hostility system?

Yes its actually almost the exact same thing, the difference is that both sides start at 50% and its a PVP oriented tug of war to to get to 60% (or for defenders to keep it above 41%)

AI counts towards the tonnage but at a fraction of player ships, just enough so its enough to get 60% if no defenders show, but not enough for it to be used as a main approach to the capture.

Hostilities as we know it will still exist to set the conquest of a port.

Edited by Slim Jimmerson
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RvR are not fun. End of story. It ruins a game for 90% of the population. Clans on TS occurs in most game as an optional feature but to make them rule over other normal players is a totally misunderstanding. I will never join NA again if RvR has this kind of God-status in the game. Forget it!

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Just now, fox2run said:

RvR are not fun. End of story. It ruins a game for 90% of the population. Clans on TS occurs in most game as an optional feature but to make them rule over other normal players is a totally misunderstanding. I will never join NA again if RvR has this kind of God-status in the game. Forget it!

You didn't even read the suggestion

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2 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Taxes, shipbuilding, Port Battles, diplomacy even self-proclaimed rules within nations has been suggested and imposed to some extend. Theres a reason why I and 90% of gamers have quitted this game for good.

Well please quitted posting if you're never gonna play the game

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5 minutes ago, fox2run said:

Trying to influence devs to make this game great again. Make pvp server fun again. But I guess that would make you find some other trading game or something.

Its called Naval ACTION for G.. sake.

If you don't like action. Beat it.

How ?

Please, honestly, write them down.

We all will read them as much as we all, community, read and discuss everything else.

Just don't keep posting this kind of "anarchic" posts everywhere.

Explain, don't just say "no, wrong, bad, etc". 

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Fox2run - Yes it is called Naval Action but if you only want PvP there is a Naval Legends that the devs are working on. Naval Action is more then just a shoot em up game. It also includes other aspects like trading, escorting, land capture and crafting. That to me is what the 'Action" covers. It is more then just some arcade version of Battle Tank. While I understand you would prefer that the game center around the combat it is (time wise) a very small part of the whole. 

As Red Duke had asked, if you have an idea please present it here for discussion. If you do not like an idea, present a reason so that it can be discussed and perhaps alter the original idea. Saying a blanket statement of "that idea sucks" helps no one at all and can actually cause the game to take longer to evolve into something you would like to play.

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4 hours ago, mikawa said:

This destroys completely the meaning of any 1st rate ship. It results in many many small battles instead of a big one. Speaking for me I would not like this ...

You split my statement in half and thus may not have understood what I was presenting. My idea is that the battle should conclude in 72 hours regardless of any ships being sunk. If the only ship sunk is a cutter (thus the 60% is not reached but it would push the percent to maybe 51 or 52) then the victory should still be granted. This prevents stalemates from occurring due to one side not showing up. I see that later there was mention of AI ships counting as a smaller percent but I still feel that whoever is ahead at the end of the 72 hours should still take the prize. The only concern I have in this case is mass assault tactics where multiple ports are attacked at the same time and small raids to get the percentage moved is done. This could allow multiple ports to be captured if the defenders do nothing. Granted something like that could easily occur in RL with a larger force attacking a smaller one and thus extra units could be sent so secondary targets. It mostly depends on how much of a blitz attack you want to permit. 

 

3 minutes ago, admin said:

Tonnage wars will not work due to non attendance counter. 
 

I believe this is the reason for including Ai ships at a smaller percentage.

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4 minutes ago, admin said:

Tonnage wars will not work due to non attendance counter. 
 

see

Just now, Raekur said:

I believe this is the reason for including Ai ships at a smaller percentage.

So out of the entire suggestion, this being the most glaring issue from admin... Does this mean this solution could be implemented without major fault? Or atleast up for consideration?

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