Forthcoming patch final discussion.

[Hethwill]

Funny enough, no matter what we do, even collecting dots, we are not shaping the living world. The Navy Officer career of being a pure PvPer is a egotistical search for a fight, the Admiral chair is the comfortable guaranteed Trafalgar battle and the Trader guru is bee lines back and forth.

We do not shape the persistent world... yet. Do we want to or not ? 

Do the ecocrafters runs actually provide the demand of a certain region "population" or do they do the runs only for profit as concern ? Alas the mechanic is clear even if specific missions would be in place. In powerplay why make a mission when a simple run does more ? Do the conquest actually change anything ? Can't we enter anywhere without stopping ? Hell, even AI patrols lets smugglers and outlaws run amok

Come to think too much freedom to do everything is too much freedom.

 

[Jean Ribault]

1 minute ago, Slamz said:

...

But you're right that most of the map will go neutral.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though. It's realistic given our population. If nobody is using a port, it SHOULD be neutral.

+1

[Teutonic]

25 minutes ago, Slamz said:

Admin was also saying that sinking a single NPC Victory would yield 400k.

If that's the case then a lot of small clans will find 500k per day to be very affordable. All you need is one dude with a 1st rate who does 2 missions per day and the cost is more than covered.

But you're right that most of the map will go neutral.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though. It's realistic given our population. If nobody is using a port, it SHOULD be neutral.

Agreed.

I think this "tax to hold" and neutral port stuff is actually a very good feature.

[Skully]

55 minutes ago, Staniol said:

If you enjoy crafting, do it without the need of fighting, if you enjoy pvp, do it without forced to trade, and so on.

As long as you aware that not doing the other things can make your progression a lot harder. If you don't trade to fund your campaign, then somebody else has to do it for you.

28 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Do the ecocrafters runs actually provide the demand of a certain region "population" or do they do the runs only for profit as concern ?

Bad incentives and crappy information.

Why help players if trade goods provide more money? And this is a self-induced problem, because money needs to flow from PvP and PvE to traders to crafters to the resource money sink. Repair away and hopefully get sunk. 

Why does a buy contract (for repairs) not translate to a trade mission from anywhere? (I'm not saying we should have trade missions, but if a trader is aware of the need he can make it his goal.)

[Skully]

40 minutes ago, Slamz said:

But you're right that most of the map will go neutral.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though. It's realistic given our population. If nobody is using a port, it SHOULD be neutral.

6 hours ago, admin said:

There are some concerns on the russian forum that the ability to make the city neutral will actually make the world a lot more peaceful. 

It makes conquest meaningless.

If nobody is using a port that means nobody cares about its current condition. If you want it to be neutral, go for it, there should be nobody around. 

[Quineloe]

It will also be ports that are being used that will go neutral. If it doesn't make a difference whether your iron mine is in a port of your nation or a neutral port, why bother keeping it in your nation?

Edited August 25, 2017 by Quineloe

[Skully]

Just now, Quineloe said:

It will also ports that are being used that will go neutral. If it doesn't make a difference whether your iron mine is in a port of your nation or a neutral port, why bother keeping it in your nation?

Why bother to capture it?

Lets all be happy brothers and share the map with everyone and my neighbors cat. Ah no, not the cat because he pisses all over the garden. 

[Prater]

2 hours ago, George Washington said:

He payed for NA way before NA Legends was introduced. He did not ask for Legends. So, have respect for all opinions please. For example I don't give rats about Legends and never will, my main focus is NA. If I would ever pay real money it would only be in NA and not Legends. 

He paid for Naval Action when it was how it was.  What did we have back then?  Same map, slower speeds.  How many hours does he have?  Most of us have gotten the full value out of Naval Action that we get with most other games.  He was warned before he purchased the game, and there were plenty of youtube videos, about the amount of sailing you do and the size of the world.  He doesn't like that?  That's his fault, he still bought the game despite all the stuff out there saying that was the case.

1 hour ago, jodgi said:

As I understand it, that's impossible.

If PvP'ers can fight without partaking in any upkeep save a trivial amount, eco breaks down. Or so they tell me.

Also, loss wouldn't matter, and that is somehow terrible to some people.

...

Actually it's worse. Pve-ecocrafters can play that game 24/7 without doing any pvp. Pure-pvp'ers aren't so lucky.

I'm of the opinion now that loss only really matters for 1-4th rates.  Loss for 7th rates should be tiny, 6th rates slim, 5th rates manageable (casual can afford say 4 a day).  4th rates, 1 a day.  This includes cannons, ship, modules.  For this to work, we'd need different module costs for the ship class.  Making copper plating or any other module for a 7th rate would be cheaper than for a 4th rate.  Of course, I've made up these numbers, but they should give the idea.

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Prater

[Skully]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

He paid for Naval Action when it was how it was.

@fox2run is looking for a game in which he can play solo within a Nation without wanting or needing to pay attention to his fellow Nationals. (He can correct me if I am wrong.)

How realistic is this wish?

[George Washington]

1 hour ago, Prater said:

Most of us have gotten the full value out of Naval Action that we get with most other games.

Do you know what full value is? It is when you reach lvl 100 and ask to add more levels so you can beat those. You beat extra 100 lvls and reset to 0 and start over. You play every night and remain top 5 in every game and return to compete more. This is money well invested. 

Now saying that money that were put into NA is well invested is questionable. Just to get a casual player into action will take weeks before he leaves his home waters and tries to pvp on his own. Half of them will never make it. Why not? Lack of information and ingame tutorials, long travel time, cost vs risk, repetitive boring outdated content. We have no tools to let players explore the world in quick and reasonable matter once again benefiting to slicing the rope we are hanging on. 

In the end, players reached max lvl, tested every possible ship and got bored waiting for content that would make them come back and play more.

For example dailys, rewards for actions, random rewards found while traveling, random missions, events (storms, hurricanes, tornadoes, lightnings heavy rain and wind),  aggressive privateers and cutthoats NPCs, open world items found on defeated NPCs, customization of player favorite ship, recognition of long hours spent in game. I mean come on, I can go on and on all day long, but will it ever make it in the game? This is what will keep players returning for more and then pvp, port battle and glory. 

Right now NA is one way road with dead end and we need to make that dead end loop back in circle of fun and entertainment. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by George Washington

[Challenge]

@George WashingtonWhat is the point of tutorials and manuals when the game changes faster than you could edit them? Yes, it's a tough learning curve, but if you want new players to be prepared faster... TEACH THEM. You are the tutorial for your clan, nation, or what ever. That is one of the advantages to the PvE server; the players would rather help and teach instead of crush and shit talk.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Challenge

[George Washington]

10 minutes ago, Challenge said:

@George WashingtonWhat is the point of tutorials and manuals when the game changes faster than you could edit them? Yes, it's a tough learning curve, but if you want new players to be prepared faster... TEACH THEM. You are the tutorial for your clan, nation, or what ever. That is one of the advantages to the PvE server; the players would rather help and teach instead of crush and shit talk.

You can't teach them through chat and no one will. What you do is you create an animated simple to understand 10 minute training mission with small starting pack rewards, then you let them loose and watch them thrive. 

-Learn to Understand ship specs

-Learn to Mount Guns

-Learn to Install Mods

-Learn to build outpost and structures

-Learn to gather materials and sell them

-Understand simple market

etc.. pack all this in 10 minute mission and we got auto trainer going that will be recruiting more players than ever before. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by George Washington

[Challenge]

Apparently, George, that isn't working very well. There are plenty of "how to" videos on YouTube for NA, but still there are people who don't know where to go or what to do. The game is complex and sometimes you just need to take the time to encourage people when the learning curve is as steep as this one.

And you are wrong: you can teach people. But you have to want to.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Challenge

[George Washington]

5 minutes ago, Challenge said:

Apparently, George, that isn't working very well. There are plenty of "how to" videos on YouTube for NA, but still there are people who don't know where to go or what to do. The game is complex and sometimes you just need to take the time to encourage people when the learning curve is as steep as this one.

And you are wrong: you can teach people. But you have to want to.

Once again, you tube is not game related and not a single game developer should send their customers to watch some videos created by fans. That is just low as it can be. Professionals create ingame short training missions that take care of this problem.  

Edited August 25, 2017 by George Washington

[Jean Ribault]

Training is multi-faceted.  I dare say a video in and of itself is inadequate, and person to person is very effective.  That's one of the many reasons why people join clans.

[Challenge]

Here you go George. All very much NA related; by some of the better players. Perhaps you do not learn well from other people, but I have not found that true of most new players.

Naval Action Guides - YouTube

Naval Action Tutorial 1: Ship anatomy - YouTube

Naval Action ultra Quick Start Guide - YouTube

Perhaps, if you wait until the game is in a more finished form, where the patches are no longeer changing game play, such developer made tools will be available. Until then, these seem to help, although not completely.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Challenge

[Quineloe]

5 minutes ago, Challenge said:

Here you go George. All very much NA related; by some of the better players. Perhaps you do not learn well from other people, but I have not found that true of most new players.

Naval Action Guides - YouTube

 

Perhaps, if you wait until the game is in a more finished form, where the patches are no longeer changing game play, such developer made tools will be available. Until then, these seem to help, although not completely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00Ws4dlh94o

amazing!
Exactly as @Challenge said, people are quick to post tutorials and content, but they don't clean up after them when the game changes
 

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by Quineloe

[Prater]

1 hour ago, George Washington said:

Do you know what full value is? It is when you reach lvl 100 and ask to add more levels so you can beat those. You beat extra 100 lvls and reset to 0 and start over. You play every night and remain top 5 in every game and return to compete more. This is money well invested. 

Uh, no.  You go to a movie and you pay such and such for 2 hours of entertainment.  You buy a blu ray and you get the features listed on the disk.  You then don't get to demand more features like interviews, deleted scene and such be added after you buy the blu-ray.  You buy a game, and steam values full value at 2 hours, you can refund prior to 2 hours.  If he has a few dozen hours in the game the devs don't own him or us anything more.  Naval Action has a list of features.  One of them was:

Enormous open world – Large open world, recreated based on 18th Century maps, historical harbors, positions, and town names. We do not believe in the various modern hand-holding markers, thus player position is not shown on the map: you will have to navigate yourself using compass, sun or landmarks. PS. battles are instanced to allow extremely complex sailing and fighting calculations for 50 ship battles. 

 

P.s.  Games aren't investments.

 

53 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Once again, you tube is not game related and not a single game developer should send their customers to watch some videos created by fans. That is just low as it can be. Professionals create ingame short training missions that take care of this problem.  

You can't create a tutorial for a game that isn't finished, otherwise they spend half their time creating/updating tutorials every time they change something.  They've already stated a hundred times that tutorial will come after game is mostly finished.

 

 

Does anyone remember the Early Access Flag?  You bought an Early Access game.  It isn't finished!  A quarter of the negativity could be cleared up if people would read Early Access, game is not in a finished state yet.  Expect poor optimization, poor graphics, tons of bugs, unfinished mechanics, and constantly changing gameplay.

Edited August 25, 2017 by Prater

[Quineloe]

>You buy a game, and steam values full value at 2 hours, you can refund prior to 2 hours.

That's a really bold interpretation of Steam's refund policy.

[Prater]

21 minutes ago, Quineloe said:

>You buy a game, and steam values full value at 2 hours, you can refund prior to 2 hours.

That's a really bold interpretation of Steam's refund policy.

Not really, it's how most things work unless you have a contract that says otherwise.  Read #7  http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

[George Washington]

51 minutes ago, Prater said:

P.s.  Games aren't investments.

 

They are, you can play a decently built game for years ignoring other games thus saving 100$s of dollars in your pocket. Why? because you found a game that you always wanted and if you are going to spend years in it you made the right investment. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by George Washington

[George Washington]

58 minutes ago, Prater said:

You buy a game, and steam values full value at 2 hours, you can refund prior to 2 hours.  

Ok, but game doesn't value new players. So, whats the point here? I can compare it to Superglue you touch it, you feel it and you can't get your money back if you hold for too long. 

Question is can you enjoy NA in 2 hours especially in a basic cutter? You know the answer here. Put yourself in newbie shoes. 

Edited August 25, 2017 by George Washington

[Slamz]

4 hours ago, Skully said:

It makes conquest meaningless.

If nobody is using a port that means nobody cares about its current condition. If you want it to be neutral, go for it, there should be nobody around. 

That's been the problem all along, though: probably 80% or more of Conquests are useless. Ports nobody cares about being captured by teams that will never use them. Really it's just the old "this map is too big" problem.

Now it will mean that really you only take a port if you want to be pissy about the ownership of it. Those Brits have been going in and out of there and they're snobby and you don't like them so you claim the port.

If only your clan is using a port or you don't care about the Brits who are also using it then you just leave it as neutral.

There will be a lot less RvR but really I think it means that the only port battles we'll see are those someone somewhere cares about. Empty port battles should largely go away, which to date is what most RvR has been [a boring waste of time].

Edited August 25, 2017 by Slamz

[Malachy]

It looks More promising than the original hare brained idea. Jury is out.

[mikawa]

54 minutes ago, George Washington said:

Question is can you enjoy NA in 2 hours especially in a basic cutter? You know the answer here. Put yourself in newbie shoes. 

Why not? We all were in cutters at the beginning and I mean the very beginning of the OW, far before the megapatch ... Maybe a new player can get some redeemables if for variety, lets say a privateer and a pickle.