Jump to content
Game-Labs Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Slamz

Combat ship speed vs OW ship speed

Recommended Posts

This is something we've been seeing a lot lately and still aren't sure about:

Someone catches us on the OW at a particular angle but then the battle starts and inside the battle they are absolutely slower than us.

What actually is causing this? I'm wondering if there are some bugs where ships are not properly calculating their OW speed (e.g., a Trinc is simply faster than it should be on the OW, because it's a bug in the Trinc data) or what mods might be coming into play.

I know I've heard some mods work on the OW and some only work in combat but which are which? (Incidentally, UI improvement: mods that only apply their effect in combat should specify this in the text of the mod.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Because of mods on the ship.

OW speeds are effected by absolute speed mods.  Like copper plating, lead sheeting, speed trim, Bovenwinds, and Crooked hull.   

BUT combat speeds are affected by all of those things AND sail modifiers.  Like studding sails, spanish square sails, pirate refit, and the rest.   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some mods and skills don't affect OW speed.  Staysails, Studdingsails, pirate refit, etc.

Hodo beat me to it.

Edited by Prater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Admin asked us specifically to test this not long ago, prolly around last testbed run. It is however extremely tedious to test properly and thoroughly. I only did a few runs to check if cargo weight checked out on one specific ship. Don't believe anyone came back with any test results.

We could just delete all speed mods except build choices to limit the potential bug "sources" :P

(not sorry)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jodgi said:

Admin asked us specifically to test this not long ago, prolly around last testbed run. It is however extremely tedious to test properly and thoroughly. I only did a few runs to check if cargo weight checked out on one specific ship. Don't believe anyone came back with any test results.

We could just delete all speed mods except build choices to limit the potential bug "sources" :P

(not sorry)

Well, it is already very hard to test, and with the speed cap it makes it even harder.  You could have a ship going 31+ knots in the OW but in battle it is capped to 15 knots (OW speed is battle speed x2 from my estimates).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

OW speeds are effected by absolute speed mods.  Like copper plating, lead sheeting, speed trim, Bovenwinds, and Crooked hull.   

BUT combat speeds are affected by all of those things AND sail modifiers.  Like studding sails, spanish square sails, pirate refit, and the rest.

I thought they wanted to make all speedmods transparent for both OW and instance? I just assumed...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Because of mods on the ship.

OW speeds are effected by absolute speed mods.  Like copper plating, lead sheeting, speed trim, Bovenwinds, and Crooked hull.   

BUT combat speeds are affected by all of those things AND sail modifiers.  Like studding sails, spanish square sails, pirate refit, and the rest.   

 

Slamz probably should have clarified a bit but what if the "force" mods are not the reason for being faster in battle speed?  

Perhaps the ship points of sail % are off or rounded out?

Edited by Dharus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dharus said:

Slamz probably should have clarified a bit but what if the "force" mods are not the reason for being faster in battle speed?  

So you know for sure that your enemy doesn't have any force mods decreasing their speed in battle?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Prater said:

Well, it is already very hard to test, and with the speed cap it makes it even harder.  You could have a ship going 31+ knots in the OW but in battle it is capped to 15 knots (OW speed is battle speed x2 from my estimates).

Yup. I've been quite consistent since the very beginning with my nagging that speedmods bring more trouble than benefits.

I've never actually considered this; that you can crazy speedmod a ship beyond instance cap but keep a superchargedd OW hunter. I'm kinda embarrassed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Prater said:

So you know for sure that your enemy doesn't have any force mods decreasing their speed in battle?

No, not for sure.  But knowing your ship and the enemies ship you can sometimes get a decent educated guess as to what they're using wood and mod wise.  That's why I suggested the point of sail because ships seem to act on points of sail differently on OW than battle.

Edited by Dharus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dharus said:

No, not for sure.  But knowing your ship and the enemies ship you can sometimes get a decent educated guess as to what they're using wood and mod wise.

That would make sense though: they chase you down on a 90 but they're using main sail force mods (a negative to staysails) so in the battle they can't catch you on a 90 at all. The sudden application of sail force mods slows them down.

It is a bit stupid to have speed mods that only work in combat, though. OW speed needs to be representative of combat speed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought OW speed was a bit over 2 times combat speed, closer to 2.05 or 2.1 times.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Slamz said:

It is a bit stupid to have speed mods that only work in combat, though. OW speed needs to be representative of combat speed.

If I understand the mechanics correctly it more than just"a bit stupid".  

Players may catch me in OW because they are as fast or faster than me in OW .... but in the battle instance I am much faster.

This sounds broken  ... and should be fixed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is a problem that comes from them using a simplified sailing model in Ow for performence resons. So they can't apply force modifier in OW.

Not sure why they feel we need to have those in battle (only messes things up).

Edited by balticsailor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the game would be better without speedmods, both for players and the developers.

Balancing would become easier. Speed is arguably the most important balance factor in the OW game where hunting and tagging occurs. How do you balance a sensible trinco against a fir/fir/gaz/boven/copper connie? 

It would help a little bit with pvp timidness. People want to play smart and if they can build or buy a ship for normal amounts of gold or time invested knowing it will be fairly competitive to the ships of the powergrinders a few more guys would venture out. Cutting out speedmods would indirectly relieve the grinding pain people are reporting, many of us grind to be competitive, many of us give up.

I have a blindspot for what's important to a sandbox player, but what of value would be lost if speedmods were removed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, jodgi said:

How do you balance a sensible trinco against a fir/fir/gaz/boven/copper connie? 

Yeah the massive nerf to speed mods did help with this but there is STILL value in being faster even if it's just 1%. That may be the difference in someone catching up just enough to keep you tagged in (with his 20 friends behind him) vs not.

In any PvP game I always try to tell the developers how dangerous it is to play with speed. I would give up a hell of a lot of other bonuses in exchange for +5% speed in any game. Exponentially more true when the game has a real death penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jodgi said:

 

I have a blindspot for what's important to a sandbox player, but what of value would be lost if speedmods were removed?

I would be totally fine with removing speed mods from the game, but then I would also want mods that reduce speed to be looked at and either adjusted or drop the "speed nerf" on them.

We have speed mods that increase speed by 1 or 2% but then we have other mods that lower speed by 3-5%. There is quite a disparity here and on top of the fact that i rarely see people use mods that lower your speed.

Which this discussion starts going into the "useful mod" and "useless mod." 

To pull it back though, again, losing speed mods would probably be for the better...but i think theu need to be adjusted instead of removed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×